(12-18-2018, 06:25 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: FTR, i wasn't bashing Dalton. I was adding to a list that was posted. 

I know....I was just adding to how this team chokes as a unit under the brightest lights. It's maddening.  Your opinions are consistent, based on objective stats and sound reasoning. We typically agree, but not always. That said, I have a great deal of respect for what you put down.

(12-18-2018, 08:21 PM)Wyche Wrote: I know....I was just adding to how this team chokes as a unit under the brightest lights. It's maddening.  Your opinions are consistent, based on objective stats and sound reasoning. We typically agree, but not always. That said, I have a great deal of respect for what you put down.

Two eras. Two consistent signs of an ENTIRE team choking.

One thing remains the same.

What I've been saying since Day One for those who SO badly want to shed Dalton. 

(12-18-2018, 06:18 PM)Fullrock Wrote: He did nothing of note, except help lead Florida to an 11-2 record and Sugar Bowl appearance in 2012. Admittedly, he didn't appear to be the same guy when he came back from the broken leg he suffered early in 2013.

But let's not confuse playing against SEC defenses with playing against PAC-12 defenses. That's a night and day difference.  Goff certainly put up prolific numbers on a bad CAL team where he had to throw the ball a ton with them trailing frequently in games. 

Was that the same year Touchdown Teddy and the Louisville Cardinals rolled them in the bowl game?

Driskel did play well enough for U of F, but they relied on his legs quite a bit if memory serves....he also had more INTs than TDs the year he got benched in Gainesville. Admittedly, it's been several moons since I watched him play, and can't even remember the specific bowl. I do recall issues with accuracy.

As Goose noted.... it's not really defense of Dalton as it is looking at things rationally.

(12-18-2018, 08:18 PM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: I'm all for supporting Driskel. Mainly because I want to win. The kid hasn't looked good. I had no idea about his college career and that, along with his three years of no play time, draft position and change in college, further cements the fact that he is just a career back up.

Driskel was fourth on the depth chart with the team he was drafted with too, by the way.

50 TDs 28 INTS in 42 games isn't impressive at the college level.

This is me, as long as he's on this team, he has my support.

(12-18-2018, 12:38 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Did he throw those balls to himself? 

Why does everything have to be about Andy Dalton with some of you? All I did was point out some prime time games where AJ didn’t “disappear.” I didn’t diminish, or even mention Andy in my post.

And 1 of the games I mentioned McCarron was the QB.

Scott Covington is better than Jeff Driskel

I'm a Dalton fan. I'm also to the point of being ready to move on from him. Part of it is because I'd like to see him succeed and not be stuck somewhere that doesn't appreciate him. I'd like to see him go win a playoff game and it's just not going to happen here with Marvin and Mike.

The Pistons always quotes me and says the backup QB is the most popular guy on the team. I agree with him. I get that. Bengals fans take it to a whole other level though. Dalton has been the best QB on the team since he was drafted. Dalton is a big part of the reason the team was respectable and even mentioned as being contenders a couple of seasons. However, the fans have always wanted the backup QB to start over him. They booed him at a celebrity softball game in front of a national audience, hung signs at training camp about how they wanted McCarron to start, and we had the thread with people talking about how they were happy he got hurt this season. It's utterly ridiculous.

Cincinnati doesn't deserve the guy. He's a good QB. He's an even better person who does a TON for the city and community. Fans reward him by shitting on him all the time. Hell, people are doing mental gymnastics to make the argument that Driskel should be the starting QB going forward because he's not Andy Dalton. That all it takes to be loved by half the fan base. Simply don't be Andy Dalton.

So whomever the next starting QB is after Dalton (whenever that may be) will have a honeymoon period. Throwing for 130 yards will be enough to appease the fan base for awhile because he simply won't be Andy Dalton. That's honestly just sad to me.

I'm not saying he doesn't deserve criticism or doesn't make mistakes. I'm just saying he deserves much better than half his fan base.

(12-19-2018, 11:41 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: I'm a Dalton fan. I'm also to the point of being ready to move on from him. Part of it is because I'd like to see him succeed and not be stuck somewhere that doesn't appreciate him. I'd like to see him go win a playoff game and it's just not going to happen here with Marvin and Mike.

The Pistons always quotes me and says the backup QB is the most popular guy on the team. I agree with him. I get that. Bengals fans take it to a whole other level though. Dalton has been the best QB on the team since he was drafted. Dalton is a big part of the reason the team was respectable and even mentioned as being contenders a couple of seasons. However, the fans have always wanted the backup QB to start over him. They booed him at a celebrity softball game in front of a national audience, hung signs at training camp about how they wanted McCarron to start, and we had the thread with people talking about how they were happy he got hurt this season. It's utterly ridiculous.

Cincinnati doesn't deserve the guy. He's a good QB. He's an even better person who does a TON for the city and community. Fans reward him by shitting on him all the time. Hell, people are doing mental gymnastics to make the argument that Driskel should be the starting QB going forward because he's not Andy Dalton. That all it takes to be loved by half the fan base. Simply don't be Andy Dalton.

So whomever the next starting QB is after Dalton (whenever that may be) will have a honeymoon period. Throwing for 130 yards will be enough to appease the fan base for awhile because he simply won't be Andy Dalton. That's honestly just sad to me.

I'm not saying he doesn't deserve criticism or doesn't make mistakes. I'm just saying he deserves much better than half his fan base.

Right on brother  :andy:

Our backup QB could be the worst backup QB in the history of football and there would be people on here claiming he needs to start just because he's not AD. It's pathetic

(12-18-2018, 06:25 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: FTR, i wasn't bashing Dalton. I was adding to a list that was posted. 

I get it, you and Nicomo and others are right, Andy does his share of dumbshit things, but so does the whole team. In all our playoffs games, going from memory here, I don't remember 1 player stepping up and playing lights out. Maybe Burfict in 2015 but we still lost by some dumbshit stuff.

Driskel could be starting by 2020 when the XFL opens.... I can't see any teams lining up to give him that opportunity in the nfl.

(12-19-2018, 12:31 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Driskel could be starting by 2020 when the XFL opens.... I can't see any teams lining up to give him that opportunity in the nfl.

Not unless he plays A LOT better in these last couple games.

Again, let me say it for the people in the back who have a hard time understanding. Do I think Driskel gives this team the best chance to win the most games next year? No. Do I think his physical tools warrant a chance to see what he might be able to develop into? Yes. This team IS NOT GOING TO WIN NEXT YEAR regardless of who is under center. Driskel is an unknown, and anyone who says otherwise after the kid has made 3 starts is delusional.

I do not want to see another year of average Andy. We know what he is after 8 years. The fact that he's a good guy has nothing to do with anything. The ONLY thing players are measured by is performance. With Dalton this is likely a 6-win team next year. Without him maybe they win 4 games, maybe they win a few more. What's the difference?

I would also be extremely hesitant to pay the price of a 1st round QB and then put him behind this offensive line. That's a recipe for disaster making that kind of investment in a QB and putting him in that situation. More reason to let Driskel play if you move on from Dalton. At least with Drisel's athleticism, they can design an offense to make use of his mobility and running ability to try to keep defenses honest.

(12-19-2018, 12:48 PM)Fullrock Wrote: Again, let me say it for the people in the back who have a hard time understanding. Do I think Driskel gives this team the best chance to win the most games next year? No. Do I think his physical tools warrant a chance to see what he might be able to develop into? Yes. This team IS NOT GOING TO WIN NEXT YEAR regardless of who is under center. Driskel is an unknown, and anyone who says otherwise after the kid has made 3 starts is delusional.

I do not want to see another year of average Andy. We know what he is after 8 years. The fact that he's a good guy has nothing to do with anything. The ONLY thing players are measured by is performance. With Dalton this is likely a 6-win team next year. Without him maybe they win 4 games, maybe they win a few more. What's the difference?

I would also be extremely hesitant to pay the price of a 1st round QB and then put him behind this offensive line. That's a recipe for disaster making that kind of investment in a QB and putting him in that situation. More reason to let Driskel play if you move on from Dalton. At least with Drisel's athleticism, they can design an offense to make use of his mobility and running ability to try to keep defenses honest.

He isn't an unknown, he is playing exactly to his scouting report. Three years in his accuracy hasn't gotten any better and that doesn't take live game reps to fix. Normally live game reps help with reading defenses and decision making, but accuracy you either have or you don't. It is pretty commonly held that if you come into the league inaccurate you won't make huge strides to fix it unless it's a slight mechanics issue. That was never the case with Driskel it has been that he simply doesn't have the accuracy. Everyone wants Tom Brady, but the reality is the number of even average QB's in the league after the 3rd or 4th round is minimal because normally that is where a lot of the guys with accuracy issues end up....like Driskel. 

You aren't going to take a year and build an offense around a 3rd year player who was a 6th round pick because he can run a little. Guys like him really are a dime a dozen and there are more of them in this class this year. Shea Patterson out of Michigan is basically Jeff Driskel if he comes out in the draft this year. Being enamored with running QB's is nothing new but time has shown they simply don't last when they run as a read versus out of need, so the idea we tailor some sort of offense that has him running is a short sighted approach to the teams future. 

So again, "all of us in the back" hear you we just don't think he is anymore than a back up. I'd send a 4th out to San Fran for Mullens, their third string QB, who has played far better before I'd start Driskel next season.

(12-19-2018, 12:48 PM)Fullrock Wrote: Again, let me say it for the people in the back who have a hard time understanding. Do I think Driskel gives this team the best chance to win the most games next year? No. Do I think his physical tools warrant a chance to see what he might be able to develop into? Yes. This team IS NOT GOING TO WIN NEXT YEAR regardless of who is under center. Driskel is an unknown, and anyone who says otherwise after the kid has made 3 starts is delusional.

I do not want to see another year of average Andy. We know what he is after 8 years. The fact that he's a good guy has nothing to do with anything. The ONLY thing players are measured by is performance. With Dalton this is likely a 6-win team next year. Without him maybe they win 4 games, maybe they win a few more. What's the difference?

I would also be extremely hesitant to pay the price of a 1st round QB and then put him behind this offensive line. That's a recipe for disaster making that kind of investment in a QB and putting him in that situation. More reason to let Driskel play if you move on from Dalton. At least with Drisel's athleticism, they can design an offense to make use of his mobility and running ability to try to keep defenses honest.

You are absolutely delusional.  Let me say it again for you since you seem to have a hard time understanding.  Dalton and Green carried a Marvin Lewis led team to the playoffs 5 years in a row. The "problems" Dalton and co have in the playoffs and big games, preceded them.  The common denominator here is mediocre Marv, not "average Andy". Let's see the core of this team have a chance under a competent coaching staff before we start a complete rebuild.  This team, with a historically bad defense, still got off to a 4-1 start with Dalton under center this year. Can't win more than 6 games next year?  Are you kidding. You said it yourself, the line is a joke.  Get some linemen, competent coaches, and see what happens before we re-build.  Driskell shouldn't be on an NFL roster, let alone starting.  I'm beginning to think this HAS to be a troll account.

(12-19-2018, 01:06 PM)Au165 Wrote: He isn't an unknown, he is playing exactly to his scouting report. Three years in his accuracy hasn't gotten any better and that doesn't take live game reps to fix. Normally live game reps help with reading defenses and decision making, but accuracy you either have or you don't. It is pretty commonly held that if you come into the league inaccurate you won't make huge strides to fix it unless it's a slight mechanics issue. That was never the case with Driskel it has been that he simply doesn't have the accuracy. Everyone wants Tom Brady, but the reality is the number of even average QB's in the league after the 3rd or 4th round is minimal because normally that is where a lot of the guys with accuracy issues end up....like Driskel. 

You aren't going to take a year and build an offense around a 3rd year player who was a 6th round pick because he can run a little. Guys like him really are a dime a dozen and there are more of them in this class this year. Shea Patterson out of Michigan is basically Jeff Driskel if he comes out in the draft this year. Being enamored with running QB's is nothing new but time has shown they simply don't last when they run as a read versus out of need, so the idea we tailor some sort of offense that has him running is a short sighted approach to the teams future. 

So again, "all of us in the back" hear you we just don't think he is anymore than a back up. I'd send a 4th out to San Fran for Mullens, their third string QB, who has played far better before I'd start Driskel next season.

Exactly ! I don't know what guys don't get about this ? The chances Driskel just suddenly morphs into an accurate QB at the NFL level are like 3%.

(12-19-2018, 12:48 PM)Fullrock Wrote: Again, let me say it for the people in the back who have a hard time understanding. Do I think Driskel gives this team the best chance to win the most games next year? No. Do I think his physical tools warrant a chance to see what he might be able to develop into? Yes. This team IS NOT GOING TO WIN NEXT YEAR regardless of who is under center. Driskel is an unknown, and anyone who says otherwise after the kid has made 3 starts is delusional.

I do not want to see another year of average Andy. We know what he is after 8 years. The fact that he's a good guy has nothing to do with anything. The ONLY thing players are measured by is performance. With Dalton this is likely a 6-win team next year. Without him maybe they win 4 games, maybe they win a few more. What's the difference?

I would also be extremely hesitant to pay the price of a 1st round QB and then put him behind this offensive line. That's a recipe for disaster making that kind of investment in a QB and putting him in that situation. More reason to let Driskel play if you move on from Dalton. At least with Drisel's athleticism, they can design an offense to make use of his mobility and running ability to try to keep defenses honest.

Where do you get the conclusion that the Bengals are a 4-6 win team next year?  They've won 6 this year with an insane amount of injuries and the 3rd toughest SoS in the league.  Plus, there will definitely be a new DC, possible a new HC, and we have no clue on what happens in FA or the draft.

(12-19-2018, 12:48 PM)Fullrock Wrote: Again, let me say it for the people in the back who have a hard time understanding. Do I think Driskel gives this team the best chance to win the most games next year? No. Do I think his physical tools warrant a chance to see what he might be able to develop into? Yes. This team IS NOT GOING TO WIN NEXT YEAR regardless of who is under center. Driskel is an unknown, and anyone who says otherwise after the kid has made 3 starts is delusional.

I do not want to see another year of average Andy. We know what he is after 8 years. The fact that he's a good guy has nothing to do with anything. The ONLY thing players are measured by is performance. With Dalton this is likely a 6-win team next year. Without him maybe they win 4 games, maybe they win a few more. What's the difference?

I would also be extremely hesitant to pay the price of a 1st round QB and then put him behind this offensive line. That's a recipe for disaster making that kind of investment in a QB and putting him in that situation. More reason to let Driskel play if you move on from Dalton. At least with Drisel's athleticism, they can design an offense to make use of his mobility and running ability to try to keep defenses honest.

Driskel isn’t an unknown. It’s very easy to see what he is. That’s our entire point. He is the same guy he was at Florida, and the same guy he has been his entire NFL career. You are also vastly overrating his athleticism. You know who else ran a good 40?

Carson Palmer. Palmer ran a composite 4.65 second forty yard dash.

Driskel isn’t good. He won’t magically become good. He is a backup and is playing as such. He’s not a good passer and he’s not good enough as a runner to make up for it. He’s probably a slightly better runner than Dalton along with being a significantly worse passer.

Also, Driskel has been sacked 9 times already. I definitely think we are overrating the kid's athleticism.

Here is a brain fart.
Why even have an alpha QB. Just carry 4 or 5 Driskels, dime a dozen, and build a read option ish offense. Just make sure he isn't noodle armed. When he gets hurt, plug the next one in.

(12-19-2018, 12:33 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Not unless he plays A LOT better in these last couple games.

true anything is possible...

But I think people here tend to overhype out backups for some reason..

I mean I still don't see the all mighty McCarron playing anywhere.