Not only a coach that holds players accountable but an owner that holds players accountable as well. Bring Gruden in to hold players accountable means absolutely nothing if the owner doesn't back that accountability. The Bengals need both and that just will not happen as long as Mike Brown is running this team so just forget about it.

On top of the coach and owner holding players accountable, they also need to back the players too with refs and the league. That just will not happen with this team.

Face it, we are fans of a team that's ran by a freaking asshat that don't give a crap except for making money.

I want a owner that cares about one thing.
building and sustaining a winning culture.

(12-26-2018, 12:30 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: I've stated this earlier in other threads.

I'm not shouting on the rooftops for a Gruden hire but he's at least got balls.

Not this same passive stuff we keep hearing year after year from Merv.

Gruden would be definitely be a culture change around these parts.

But would he win here?  Can anyone, would be the real question, since it all points back to Mike Brown.

I even think Gruden HC + Hue at OC wouldn't be terrible but people like to squeal(like that Freddy ?)about how terrible it would be.

I think getting Marv away from the whole organization is the only thing that would change this passive shit culture he's implemented.

NO FRONT OFFICE FOR MARVIN !!!!!!!!!!

Yeah I can't fault Marvin for keeping a high paying job, our issue is the 3 decade lack of accountability by the FO.  Who knows who has what say between Mikey, Katie, Duke and Marvin, but Marvin is the face of the team on the field.  We can be irate at him smugly chuckling at reporters after a seemingly scheduled prime time loss, but the real issue is that players can't be expected to respect, let alone rise up and achieve.  

I'm all for a change, and this type of move by Gruden would be welcomed.  I'd love a pro bowler with the top 10 pick, but I'd rather have a coach with the authority to cut said pick if need be, or that could actually be fired for not "doing his job".  The fact that I didn't watch the game, and had to read about a stare down of our Marvin 2.0 and decision being Marvin's to make shows how apathetic I am at the team.  If we keep them we should have bring back the 90s themes at all home games with giveaways like furbys and pogs, and we should switch to flannel jerseys.

(12-26-2018, 02:28 AM)phil413 Wrote: Yeah I can't fault Marvin for keeping a high paying job, our issue is the 3 decade lack of accountability by the FO.  Who knows who has what say between Mikey, Katie, Duke and Marvin, but Marvin is the face of the team on the field.  We can be irate at him smugly chuckling at reporters after a seemingly scheduled prime time loss, but the real issue is that players can't be expected to respect, let alone rise up and achieve.  

I'm all for a change, and this type of move by Gruden would be welcomed.  I'd love a pro bowler with the top 10 pick, but I'd rather have a coach with the authority to cut said pick if need be, or that could actually be fired for not "doing his job".  The fact that I didn't watch the game, and had to read about a stare down of our Marvin 2.0 and decision being Marvin's to make shows how apathetic I am at the team.  If we keep them we should have bring back the 90s themes at all home games with giveaways like furbys and pogs, and we should switch to flannel jerseys.

I don't know if it's solely Mike Brown or Marvin is in the same mindset... but this slow reaction time to make changes without a sense of urgency is painful.

If I were a player looking at that aspect I think I'd behave just like Boomer, Dillon, Palmer(damn I can't believe I just wrote that), Johnson.

I sure as hell would think the organization didn't care about improving and winning.

Green is a saint in my opinion. 

Honestly any skill position player of worth should be getting peeved by it.

This team/ownership makes bad decisions and has the reactionary reflexes of a tree sloth.

Sorry sloth.  But hey at least you're cute and chick's dig ya.

I think Gruden is being petty & I think it sends the wrong message to other players, particularly free agents.

(12-26-2018, 12:11 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: No coach has won a Super Bowl, until they did.  One trait in common with most Super Bowl winning coaches is accountability.   The ability to hold players responsible for their actions on the field, or off the field.  We've complained for years about a lack of general accountability on this team from the coaching staff.  

Jay Gruden is a man that holds his players accountable to the lines that he establishes.  Prior to losing both of his QBs to season ending injury, the Redskins were in control of their division, and trending upward.  He may or may not have had the parts to make a deep run, I really don't care.  But, what I do like about him is he has a master plan, he draws lines, he holds people accountable to what he has established.  He is the polar opposite of Marv, the players coach.  Jay Gruden is a Coaches coach.

After 16 years of mediocrity with a players coach, it's time we went the opposite direction, and went with a disciplinarian.

And Jay Gruden has been a coach for how long? Five years and he is a coaching guru but hasn't won a playoff game either. In five years he has been over .500 one time(9-7). They need to quit looking backwards and start fresh with a whole new staff.

(12-25-2018, 11:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Then go after Jay Gruden.  After he previously spoke with Swearinger this season about being critical of coaching, he did it again.  This time, it cost Swearinger his job.  If that ain't drawing a line, and holding players to it, I don't know what is.

https://wtkr.com/2018/12/24/skins-scoop-jay-gruden-responds-to-d-j-swearingers-criticism-of-defensive-coordinator-greg-manusky/

I liked Gruden just fine, but I don't know what relationships he has out there to have a solid DC and ST coach to come with him.  I really want a young innovative coach.  No more retreads.  We might get Sean McVeigh, or we might get Dave Shula, but at least it would be different from the same old shit we always get with Marv. 

Honestly I'm not impressed by the move. They release one of their best play makers because he is upset with the defensive play calling? He lead their team in interceptions. If someone like Jessie Bates said something like that about OUR coaching staff not one person could blame him.

Discipline? That's a joke. Washington was the only team to claim Reuben Foster. So they can value/tolerate a guy like that, but a guy like Swearinger, who obviously cares about winning, gets released? Mason Foster was caught saying 'f*** this team and f*** this fan base'. Nothing happened. In fact Gruden made him a team captain.

I've been a Jay Gruden supporter, but now I want nothing to do with him.

(12-26-2018, 12:12 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I want another Head Coach thread

Two per day just isn't enough.

IMHO what this team needs is a complete fresh start. No Marvin in F.O. No Hue as OC, no J. Gruden back, none of that !

We need a whole new direction.

(12-26-2018, 11:51 AM)MentalRage Wrote: Honestly I'm not impressed by the move. They release one of their best play makers because he is upset with the defensive play calling? He lead their team in interceptions. If someone like Jessie Bates said something like that about OUR coaching staff not one person could blame him.

So you don't want players to be held accountable?  Swearinger was released not just for making critical comments about the coaching to the media, but for doing it repeatedly, after his HC had clearly established that it was unacceptable.  

Let's not forget that players are team employees, they must follow the policy established by their superiors, in this case it was his HC.  I don't know about this particular case, but many NFL contracts include language that establishes limitations on players being critical of their employers to the media.

(12-26-2018, 01:18 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So you don't want players to be held accountable?  Swearinger was released not just for making critical comments about the coaching to the media, but for doing it repeatedly, after his HC had clearly established that it was unacceptable.  

Let's not forget that players are team employees, they must follow the policy established by their superiors, in this case it was his HC.  I don't know about this particular case, but many NFL contracts include language that establishes limitations on players being critical of their employers to the media.

Of course I want players to be held accountable. There is a certain player in Cincinnati that comes to mind. But bad coaching should be held accountable as well. 

 I really don't see a reason to praise Gruden for his accountability when guys like Mason Foster, Reuben Foster and safety Montae Nicholson who was arrested last week for misdemeanor assault and public intoxication are still on the team. What makes you think things would be any different here with Gruden? If anything Burfict might be team captain under him.

And from what I can tell, not many redskins fans are happy with the move. 

(12-26-2018, 01:18 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So you don't want players to be held accountable?  Swearinger was released not just for making critical comments about the coaching to the media, but for doing it repeatedly, after his HC had clearly established that it was unacceptable.  

Let's not forget that players are team employees, they must follow the policy established by their superiors, in this case it was his HC.  I don't know about this particular case, but many NFL contracts include language that establishes limitations on players being critical of their employers to the media.

It's not like Gruden dropped the hammer when Swearinger first started calling people out. This had been going on for 2 years:

'The Redskins cut D.J. Swearinger because for two years he established a clear pattern of criticizing coaches, teammates and the entire organization after losses.'

'Sources inside Redskins Park made clear that the team sat down with Swearinger multiple times to explain that the safety should not go to the media any more with criticisms about the team.' 

'Previous conversations had mentioned possible discipline for Swearinger, but this time, the staff inside the Ashburn headquarters felt they had no choice. The safety had already caused significant friction around the building, and with the intensified comments aimed directly at Mansuky, the staff felt they had no option but to release the Pro Bowl alternate.'

IMO, it's not like Gruden made some bold move here that sent a statement. It seems more like Swearinger forced their hand (finally) and left them no other alternative after 2 years of this behavior.

(12-26-2018, 02:03 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: It's not like Gruden dropped the hammer when Swearinger first started calling people out. This had been going on for 2 years:

'The Redskins cut D.J. Swearinger because for two years he established a clear pattern of criticizing coaches, teammates and the entire organization after losses.'

'Sources inside Redskins Park made clear that the team sat down with Swearinger multiple times to explain that the safety should not go to the media any more with criticisms about the team.' 

'Previous conversations had mentioned possible discipline for Swearinger, but this time, the staff inside the Ashburn headquarters felt they had no choice. The safety had already caused significant friction around the building, and with the intensified comments aimed directly at Mansuky, the staff felt they had no option but to release the Pro Bowl alternate.'

IMO, it's not like Gruden made some bold move here that sent a statement. It seems more like Swearinger forced their hand (finally) and left them no other alternative after 2 years of this behavior.

I know Arizona already signed him but we should have signed him . He would have a field day with our FO and coaching staff.

(12-26-2018, 12:30 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: I've stated this earlier in other threads.

I'm not shouting on the rooftops for a Gruden hire but he's at least got balls.

Not this same passive stuff we keep hearing year after year from Merv.

Gruden would be definitely be a culture change around these parts.

But would he win here?  Can anyone, would be the real question, since it all points back to Mike Brown.

I even think Gruden HC + Hue at OC wouldn't be terrible but people like to squeal(like that Freddy ?)about how terrible it would be.

I think getting Marv away from the whole organization is the only thing that would change this passive shit culture he's implemented.

NO FRONT OFFICE FOR MARVIN !!!!!!!!!!

Me every time I hear Marvin say, "We just need to do a better job."

(12-26-2018, 12:34 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That is the type of immediate accountable action that many have been clamoring for out of Marvin, for as long as he's ever been around here.  Do you think that Gruden would have tolerated Adam Jones many run ins with the law?  How about Vontaze' many run ins with the league office?  Do you think that a coach like Gruden would allow a #9 pick like Ross to cut off routes, and allow passes to bounce off his chest?  Me neither. 

This Jay Gruden you're boasting about who would never tolerate Adam Jones or Vontaze Burfict..... the same Jay Gruden who picked up Ruben Foster after he beat his girlfriend and Montae Nicholson after his assault and intoxication charges??? That Jay Gruden????
https://sports.yahoo.com/nearing-end-turmoil-filled-season-redskins-somehow-draw-line-d-j-swearingers-criticism-230224572.html

Quote:[/url]

The truth shall set you free.
And [url=https://sports.yahoo.com/washington-cuts-d-j-swearinger-repeated-criticism-coaching-staff-181439903.html]in the case of D.J. Swearinger, it can send you packing on Christmas Eve.
In another dramatic twist in an already stunning Washington Redskins season, the veteran safety announced on D.C. radio Monday that he had been released by the team. Swearinger’s abrupt dismissal came only two days after he publicly ripped defensive coordinator Greg Manusky following the team’s 25-16 loss to the Blaine Gabbert-led Tennessee Titans.
This was the last straw for Washington.
View photos



This was the line head coach Jay Gruden felt compelled to draw in the sand.
Imagine that …
The Redskins, a franchise so determined to give Reuben Foster a second chance that they ignored his repeated run-ins with law enforcement — including domestic violence charges — and claimed him off waivers two days after San Francisco, determined Swearinger was a lost cause. Washington’s front office also wanted everyone to know that the Foster allegations were “small potatoes [compared to] a lot of things out there.”
… The Redskins, a franchise that accepted the apology of linebacker and team captain Mason Foster, who wrote “F- – – this team and this fan base” in a private Instagram message that was later leaked to the public. The message, which Foster accepted responsibility for, was followed by six laughing emojis.
… The Redskins, a franchise that currently employs safety Montae Nicholson, who was arrested in Virginia last week for misdemeanor assault and public intoxication. (Nicholson, who is on the non-football injury list, also was reportedly arrested for driving under the influence in Pennsylvania in 2017.)
View photos



And now, these same Redskins made it clear that Swearinger’s sin could no longer go ignored.
“We should have blew them out,” Swearinger said Saturday of the Titans, before teeing off on Manusky. “If I’m the D-coordinator I’m calling a zone every time on third down because you’ve got a backup quarterback. Make him beat us. Make him, ‘OK, a zone, go here.’ We’re going to pick you off. Man, three by one, you’re going back side every time. A kindergarten quarterback know that.”
Those comments were the final straw for a franchise that had long grown tired of the safety’s criticisms — no matter how accurate Swearinger’s truth-telling may have been.
It’s true that Swearinger’s inability to control his emotions is just one of the reasons he’s on his fourth team since being drafted in the second round by Houston in 2013.
It’s also true that Gruden has had multiple chats with the 27-year-old about his criticisms in the media, comments that often put the coaching staff in an awkward position.
However, a former Redskin defended Swearinger, saying Washington’s practices “were a joke” and “too laid back.” He then added: “That’s the reason for so many injuries. … Nobody practices hard.”
Asked about the safety’s comments regarding Gruden’s “laidback” approach in practices, one current Redskins player acknowledged in a text message that “a lot of things could have been different, but it’s always going to be, players play and coaches coach. And when you challenge that enough then parties have to go their separate ways.”
Several current Redskins took to social media to publicly voice their confusion and frustration over Swearinger’s release.

I don't want Jay any where near the Bengals.

This is an epic example of how fans only see the positives in other teams and only the negatives with the Bengals.

Gruden signs Reuben Foster, but he would never have put up with Burfict or Adam Jones.

Any player who even hints at criticizing the coaches here is held up as a hero/saint, but on another team he is a cancer that nees to be cut.

And the most incredible comment was when someone criticized marvin for not hold Ross accountable for drops. Last year when Marvin held him accountable for not knowing the playbook, and not running the right routes, and not securing the ball, and quitting on routes he was CRUCIFIED for picking on poor little John and banishing him to the dog house.

(12-26-2018, 12:11 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: No coach has won a Super Bowl, until they did.  One trait in common with most Super Bowl winning coaches is accountability.   The ability to hold players responsible for their actions on the field, or off the field.  We've complained for years about a lack of general accountability on this team from the coaching staff.  

Jay Gruden is a man that holds his players accountable to the lines that he establishes.  Prior to losing both of his QBs to season ending injury, the Redskins were in control of their division, and trending upward.  He may or may not have had the parts to make a deep run, I really don't care.  But, what I do like about him is he has a master plan, he draws lines, he holds people accountable to what he has established.  He is the polar opposite of Marv, the players coach.  Jay Gruden is a Coaches coach.

After 16 years of mediocrity with a players coach, it's time we went the opposite direction, and went with a disciplinarian.

He also lost TWO O-linemen in one game,plus another player on the defense all three on IR. Instead of folding his cards and giving up, his team was legitimately in it until last week, and even then they put up a decent fight. Besides Doctson and a TE who's injured as much as Eifert, they barely have any receivers, and Peterson became the lead back by default. I like his sideline demeanor as well, if something goes wrong you can tell he's pissed, he's not standing there with a blank stare clapping his hands, I like that fire. If we can't get someone like that, I'm still for you and Harley Dog running the show, your winning percentage is better than Hue Jackson,there hasn't been a coach that bad since the inception of the Buccaneers and John Mckay who, when asked about the execution of the offense; said he was all for it!

(12-26-2018, 06:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is an epic example of how fans only see the positives in other teams and only the negatives with the Bengals.

Gruden signs Reuben Foster, but he would never have put up with Burfict or Adam Jones.

Any player who even hints at criticizing the coaches here is held up as a hero/saint, but on another team he is a cancer that nees to be cut.

And the most incredible comment was when someone criticized marvin for not hold Ross accountable for drops.  Last year when Marvin held him accountable for not knowing the playbook, and not running the right routes, and not securing the ball, and quitting on routes he was CRUCIFIED for picking on poor little John and banishing him to the dog house.

And a lot of us wondered why he was drafted in that spot in the first place. As for Foster, he was picked by many to be headed to the Bengals in that draft. Who knows if things would have turned out differently here. Some are like Gordon, who apparently can't be fixed; for others a light turns on, and they become solid players. On another note, anybody ever tell you you look like Myron Mixon? You remind me of him in a lot of ways!