(12-29-2018, 02:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Here is a point many of you are missing.  Over the past few years the Bengals have out performed many teams that have GMs.

I don't think Mike Brown is competent at all, but you can't say he does not care about winning just because he does not hire a GM.  The absolute worst teams in the league all have GMs.

And so do all the absolute best.  When is the last time an owner who also acted as GM won a SB?  I rest my case.

Yup, the Tree Sloth talks about loyalty but he has zero loyalty to the fans..zero

(12-29-2018, 02:49 PM)McC Wrote: The proof is in the pudding

I think if I had a strong desire to win, and my team hadn't won a playoff game in 28 years and just had seven one-and-dones in the last 13, I'd change my philosophy. Something is systematically not working with my approach, and it'd need to change. It requires self awareness and the ability to recognize the sobering but important truth that my way isn't good enough. Time to give someone else a shot.

(12-29-2018, 05:21 PM)Big Boss Wrote: I think if I had a strong desire to win, and my team hadn't won a playoff game in 28 years and just had seven one-and-dones in the last 13, I'd change my philosophy.  Something is systematically not working with my approach, and it'd need to change.  It requires self awareness and the ability to recognize the sobering but important truth that my way isn't good enough.  Time to give someone else a shot.

Which is why you may be a good business man, Mike is not. He's just a stain that had a franchise handed to him and he still is not over the ego of being the "Head Guy!" Would really suck to have a life where you think your the smartest guy in the room, while others know your nothing but a loser but deal with your loserism because they know if they are losers too, there is job security.

(12-28-2018, 09:57 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Little league and teams poorly managed are temporary.

The Bengals have a de facto GM that hasn't won a single playoff game in 26+ years. And, they refuse to bring in a GM.

I could bring up articles from the early 90's that would still ring true today. Coughlin supposedly wanted to hire more scouts and presumably a GM to come here or be the GM. He questioned whether he could win under this structure. The structure is  basically still the same.

Which begs the question.

Would hiring a new coaching staff actually make a difference?

The Bengals are what happens when someone with a enormous ego and vendetta garner a bunch of financial capital, and what happens when said ego and capital carry over into the next generation.

The saddest thing will be when things carry over into the third generation with Katie. There's no reason to think she'll be any different from Mike. She's been his right hand in running the organization for decades.

What will make Katie worse than Mike is that her keeping the status quo will be overshadowed by the fact that she's the first female owner in the NFL. Assuming she's just another extension of Mike--and again, I don't see any reason to think otherwise--It will be harder to criticize her because every joke and grievance will be met with accusations of sexism and misogyny.

It'll happen. Book it.

(12-29-2018, 05:51 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: The Bengals are what happens when someone with a enormous ego and vendetta garner a bunch of financial capital, and what happens when said ego and capital carry over into the next generation.

The saddest thing will be when things carry over into the third generation with Katie. There's no reason to think she'll be any different from Mike. She's been his right hand in running the organization for decades.

What will make Katie worse than Mike is that her keeping the status quo will be overshadowed by the fact that she's the first female owner in the NFL. Assuming she's just another extension of Mike--and again, I don't see any reason to think otherwise--It will be harder to criticize her because every joke and grievance will be met with accusations of sexism and misogyny.

It'll happen. Book it.

Eh, not like Mike was like his father. Things definitely can change from generation to generation

(12-29-2018, 06:06 PM)N_B Wrote: Eh, not like Mike was like his father.  Things definitely can change from generation to generation

Where are the differences?

They were both old, stubborn, and insisted things only happen their way. 

(12-29-2018, 06:09 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: Where are the differences?

They were both old, stubborn, and insisted things only happen their way. 

Not sure we know enough about Katie to say

Guys are hitting on the problem - ego, aloof, arrogance.

You can see it when he does press conferences. He's bothered by having to talk to the peons. He sits there with his smug arrogant attitude like geez why do I have to lower myself to talk to these regular people, I'm elite and above this. He looks down his nose at everybody, thinks it's below him.

The only things that matter to him are his status as the HMFIC and controlling all the $$$$$

(12-29-2018, 06:12 PM)N_B Wrote: Not sure we know enough about Katie to say

Sorry.

I meant what were the differences between Mike and Paul?

You argued that Mike ran the organization differently from Paul, so it's possible that Katie will run things differently from Mike.

What were the differences?

(12-29-2018, 06:16 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: Sorry.

I meant what were the differences between Mike and Paul?

You argued that Mike ran the organization differently from Paul, so it's possible that Katie will run things differently from Mike.

What were the differences?

Oh, gotcha. I mean, just look at the results and how Paul was on the forefront of innovation in the NFL

(12-29-2018, 02:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No it doesn't.

"While we have had many good steps along the way, this 50th season reminds me that we have more steps that we want to take. My passion is to bring Cincinnati a much-deserved NFL championship"

So, here's the issue with that - he knows that 'his way' has never produced a single playoff win, yet he continues to do things 'his way' regardless...which means not firing coaches, valuing comp picks over free agents, not hiring a real GM, not investing more in the modernization and development of the scouting department, etc, etc, etc. 

He has to be painfully aware that his ways haven't worked. He has to be painfully aware that Marvin isn't a big stage coach. He has to be painfully aware that he is not a competent GM. He has to be painfully aware that they haven't won a playoff game in 28 years.

What has he done about it? Which meaningful changes has he made in a dedicated effort to win? The answer is that he has done next to nothing. He's refused to look for another coach that might give the team a better chance. He's refused to hire a real GM or veteran football person to run things. He's refused to go after a top free agent once in awhile. Basically, he's refused to do anything that would require real effort on his part, or that would signal that he's actually passionate about winning.

I agree with those that say that Mike 'wants to win' or 'would like to win'. It's human nature to prefer winning over losing and even Mike isn't immune to that. The problem is that he's not driven or motivated to do what it takes to make it happen. It's like an obese guy that would prefer to be skinny, but continues to eat Little Debbies and McDonalds all day, every day...instead of actually doing something about it.

Mike may very well wish he could win a playoff game, but sitting in his office and daydreaming about it won't make it happen. 

(12-29-2018, 02:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Here is a point many of you are missing.  Over the past few years the Bengals have out performed many teams that have GMs.

I don't think Mike Brown is competent at all, but you can't say he does not care about winning just because he does not hire a GM.  The absolute worst teams in the league all have GMs.

I disagree. While Mike may 'want' to win...I don't think he truly 'cares' about it, or at least not in the same way most owners do. If he truly cared, he would at least attempt to change things up, including his own approach. I mean, does he care enough about winning to hire a real GM, or to fire Marvin, or to sign a couple upper tier FA's?

We now have 28 years of evidence to evaluate how much Mike 'cares about winning'. The evidence isn't looking good brother. 

This was what Brown told reporters during the summer. He saw the changes with coordinators and assistants as a massive change and worried that the product would suffer by changing schemes.

“We have had a dramatic change with our team,” Brown said. “It isn’t fully understood. We have changed our whole offensive system. We have changed our defensive system. Usually, that is associated with hiring a new coach. We did it a little bit differently.”

“We brought in new coordinators and let them have their chance at it,” Brown said. “This will make us look different. It will be a challenge to digest for our players. It usually takes a little time. I will be holding my breath some as we start out with it. There will certainly be a few ups and downs with it. It should produce real change with the football team and we are trying to have change. We are trying to see if something a little different won’t be better.”

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2018/07/24/bengals-mike-brown-ive-put-my-bet-down/829559002/

(12-29-2018, 07:25 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: This was what Brown told reporters during the summer. He saw the changes with coordinators and assistants as a massive change and worried that the product would suffer by changing schemes.

“We have had a dramatic change with our team,” Brown said. “It isn’t fully understood. We have changed our whole offensive system. We have changed our defensive system. Usually, that is associated with hiring a new coach. We did it a little bit differently.”

“We brought in new coordinators and let them have their chance at it,” Brown said. “This will make us look different. It will be a challenge to digest for our players. It usually takes a little time. I will be holding my breath some as we start out with it. There will certainly be a few ups and downs with it. It should produce real change with the football team and we are trying to have change. We are trying to see if something a little different won’t be better.”

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2018/07/24/bengals-mike-brown-ive-put-my-bet-down/829559002/

Looks like he hit the nail mon the head with the new DC.

(12-29-2018, 07:25 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: This was what Brown told reporters during the summer. He saw the changes with coordinators and assistants as a massive change and worried that the product would suffer by changing schemes.

“We have had a dramatic change with our team,” Brown said. “It isn’t fully understood. We have changed our whole offensive system. We have changed our defensive system. Usually, that is associated with hiring a new coach. We did it a little bit differently.”

“We brought in new coordinators and let them have their chance at it,” Brown said. “This will make us look different. It will be a challenge to digest for our players. It usually takes a little time. I will be holding my breath some as we start out with it. There will certainly be a few ups and downs with it. It should produce real change with the football team and we are trying to have change. We are trying to see if something a little different won’t be better.”

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2018/07/24/bengals-mike-brown-ive-put-my-bet-down/829559002/

That's the problem with Mikey, we don't need anymore little differents we need wholesale change and a new culture built.

(12-29-2018, 07:25 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: This was what Brown told reporters during the summer. He saw the changes with coordinators and assistants as a massive change and worried that the product would suffer by changing schemes.

“We have had a dramatic change with our team,” Brown said. “It isn’t fully understood. We have changed our whole offensive system. We have changed our defensive system. Usually, that is associated with hiring a new coach. We did it a little bit differently.”

“We brought in new coordinators and let them have their chance at it,” Brown said. “This will make us look different. It will be a challenge to digest for our players. It usually takes a little time. I will be holding my breath some as we start out with it. There will certainly be a few ups and downs with it. It should produce real change with the football team and we are trying to have change. We are trying to see if something a little different won’t be better.”

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2018/07/24/bengals-mike-brown-ive-put-my-bet-down/829559002/

Mike's idea of 'change' was to re-sign the head coach who hadn't won a playoff game in 15 years and was coming off back to back losing seasons. This is what I mean about Mike being lazy and unmotivated...he simply re-signs Marvin, and Marvin goes out and gets a few new coaches. Mike isn't required to really do anything, other than speculate if doing something a 'little different' will work.

Now, I will give him credit for finally firing Alexander...after 2 1/2 decades. 

(12-29-2018, 07:48 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: That's the problem with Mikey, we don't need anymore little differents we need wholesale change and a new culture built.

Honestly, seeing all of the issues we have after these coaching changes that didn't improve kind of makes me think this is going to be a total rebuild for a new HC.

The Steelers have a better roster than us and will win as long as Roethlisberger is there. The Ravens have a better roster than us and Lamar Jackson should get better and you know he'll give us trouble.

And the Browns have a better roster than us with a lot of guys that should get better.

We are going to have a tough time getting out of last place.

(12-29-2018, 07:52 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Mike's idea of 'change' was to re-sign the head coach who hadn't won a playoff game in 15 years and was coming off back to back losing seasons. This is what I mean about Mike being lazy and unmotivated...he simply re-signs Marvin, and have Marvin go out and get a few new coaches. Mike isn't required to really do anything, other than speculate if doing something a 'little different' will work.

Now, I will give him credit for finally firing Alexander...after 2 1/2 decades. 

Mike's big change, lately, was updating from his 1972 Kmart tighty whities to 1991 Walmart BVD's