(01-02-2019, 12:37 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Thing is this team is a good ways away from being a true contender. Can they and will Mike Brown do enough, quickly enough, for it to matter for the quickly getting into the final 1/3 of their careers core ?

Perhaps (with a new outside the Bengals tree HC) it would be best to go ahead and start the rebuild ? 

Package our 1st, 6th, and Dunlap, Raiders need pass rushers bad ! For their 1st ? Let Dalton help the rookie along ?

I dunno ? Perhaps it's best to build O and D lines and LBers and wait on next season for QB ?

In the NFL today with parity, the idea of rebuild or overhaul does not seem to be supported.  So many teams go from bottom in division to top in division in a year and some go to winning playoffs etc.  The AFC Central does not seem to have a clear favorite.. Steelers seem to be reeling more and more from internal issues and losing Bell overall hurt them, Ravens turned it on at end of year but still how far can they go with a QB running the ball over 15 carries a game and they stayed  reasonable healthy this year on defense do you think they would be where they are if they had injuries on their defense like we had on our offense.  Cleveland moved the bar this year but still finished under 500 .  Bengals need to assess their needs and address them without making areas of strength or stability weak.  Draft well, do a FA pickup that helps but does not break the bank and hope we overall we stay healthy which now sinks a  team in the parity of NFL we live in called "injuries" next year. 

http://www.espn.com/blog/philadelphia-eagles/post/_/id/23178/eagles-on-verge-of-furthering-nfls-worst-to-first-trend

This team has a good core of players (I know some are getting older) This is the guys I would keep.

Players worth keeping
QB
Dalton,Draft or sign a back up
RB
Mixon, Gio (unless you can trade him for some picks),Walton
WR
AJ, Boyd, Ross, Malone, and Tate
TE
Uzomeh, Kroft and resign Tyler (cheap)
OL
Glenn(I would replace him but we need to fix the right side first) Boling, and Price (Draft or sign at least 3 OL)
DL
Dunlap, Atkins, Hubbard, Lawson and Willis (I'm not sure what other DT to keep but I would like to see them get a big NT)
LB
I really don't like any of this group but I know we cant replace them all so I would keep Brown and some of the young guys.
CB and Safeties
Jackson, Bates

I know I left out a lot of guys. These are the players I think could start are play a big role on the team, fill free to add to my list.

(01-01-2019, 11:01 PM)Sled21 Wrote: We don't need a QB, we need offensive linemen and linebackers

Yep

(01-02-2019, 12:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote: And when Tampa Bay traded up for Josh Freeman.

And when Denver traded up to get Tebow.

And when the Jags traded up for Gabbert.

And when the Redskins gave up a fortune to get RG3.

And when the Bills traded up to get E. J. Manuel

And when the Browns traded up to get Manziel.

And when the Broncos traded up t get Paxton Lynch.

Actually we should forget about the first round and get our next QB in the sixth round.  That ios what the Patriots did with Tom Brady.

Point made but I wouldn’t include rg3 on this list. He had one of the best rookie years ever. Injuries happen. You can’t really predict them. It’s hard to know what his career could have been had he not blow out his knee in that playoff game.

I agree generally though. I can’t see a reason to trade up unless you feel there’s a all pro available that is going to pay big dividends for the team’s future.

Fix the o-line,first,but primarily through free agency.Yes,it could get pretty expensive,for some really good free agents,but that’s where I would put the money.Go after your linebackers in the draft.

(01-01-2019, 11:39 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: What scheme would that be?  Has our new HC and DC determined what alignment they want to run on defense?

It's why I also said Personnel. We have 4-3 Personnel. There's a chance we will move to a 3-4 but it will be a work in progress. See ARZ this year.

(01-01-2019, 10:59 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I was just looking at the draft order and pondering things.

Cards 1st they're probably not going QB. 49ers have Jimmy G so they won't either, Jets just took Darnold.

Then there's the Raiders. Gruden has been rolling the dice a lot and he loves him some Carr.

After that there's several teams that QB could/should be on the menu.

Bucs say Winston is coming back but I wouldn't bet on it. Giants will almost surely go QB with Manning winding down. The Jags have ummm Bortles. Stafford isn't getting younger for the Lions, and Keenum isn't all that inspiring for Denver.

I'm no draft guru but I doubt there will be any QB's left by 11, worth drafting that high.

If we do get a new younger offensive minded HC and new staff would it be time to roll the dice and try and trade up with Gruden ?

Mike Brown hasn't traded up that high in the draft since what early 90's ?

Is it time ?

For me, it would be time to do that if you had a can't miss prospect in the QB crop....although I am liking the kid out of Duke more and more.

I would be down with it in a year or two, for sure.  

(01-02-2019, 12:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote: And when Tampa Bay traded up for Josh Freeman.

And when Denver traded up to get Tebow.

And when the Jags traded up for Gabbert.

And when the Redskins gave up a fortune to get RG3.

And when the Bills traded up to get E. J. Manuel

And when the Browns traded up to get Manziel.

And when the Broncos traded up t get Paxton Lynch.

Actually we should forget about the first round and get our next QB in the sixth round.  That ios what the Patriots did with Tom Brady.

(01-02-2019, 02:51 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: And how did it work out for jacksonville to take bortes or how is tampa bay feeling right now with winston #1 pick in draft. QB are so tough to get right in draft, we have a solid QB, production has not been bad from dalton, now we seem to finally find a solid starting RB, lets continue to either fix line and LB in 1st round and 2nd Round

The obvious point that was missed is all those teams "had" to trade up because they needed a QB.; so share your list with those who want to wait until we "need" a QB I used KC as an example similar to our current situation. But if we want to play the trade up for a bust game I'm willing to play. You guys just let me know what position is bust-proof.

Used to be trading up for a QB came with the increased burden of his Rookie salary; that's no longer the issue.

(01-02-2019, 04:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  You guys just let me know what position is bust-proof.

None.  That is why it doesn't make sense to throw away draft picks to move up.  Especially for a position that is not a big need.

(01-02-2019, 04:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The obvious point that was missed is all those teams "had" to trade up because they needed a QB.; so share your list with those who want to wait until we "need" a QB I used KC as an example similar to our current situation. But if we want to play the trade up for a bust game I'm willing to play. You guys just let me know what position is bust-proof.

Used to be trading up for a QB came with the increased burden of his Rookie salary; that's no longer the issue.

The Chiefs made a bold move, and it paid off.  However, with the roster they had, they could afford to take a chance like that.  Whereas with the Bengals current situation, they have tremendous need for fundamental players like blockers and tacklers.  Sure, it would be great to secure the next franchise QB, while we still have a perfectly good one under contract.  But the reality is that the Bengals gave up the most points in the NFL this season, and the OL had trouble sustaining blocks so much that our QBs frequently had to make a habit of dumping the ball in 2 seconds or less.

(01-02-2019, 04:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If you decide your strategy based on something that happened once then you might as well plan on getting a QB in the sixth round like the Pats did with Brady.

I've provided my strategy. If we employ an offensive mind as HC and he has a QB whose talent he covets, then I'm all for trading up. Let's not pretend that taking a great QB in the first RD is something that has only happened once.  

(01-01-2019, 10:59 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I was just looking at the draft order and pondering things.

Cards 1st they're probably not going QB. 49ers have Jimmy G so they won't either, Jets just took Darnold.

Then there's the Raiders. Gruden has been rolling the dice a lot and he loves him some Carr.

After that there's several teams that QB could/should be on the menu.

Bucs say Winston is coming back but I wouldn't bet on it. Giants will almost surely go QB with Manning winding down. The Jags have ummm Bortles. Stafford isn't getting younger for the Lions, and Keenum isn't all that inspiring for Denver.

I'm no draft guru but I doubt there will be any QB's left by 11, worth drafting that high.

If we do get a new younger offensive minded HC and new staff would it be time to roll the dice and try and trade up with Gruden ?

Mike Brown hasn't traded up that high in the draft since what early 90's ?

Is it time ?

First, this is supposed to be a great draft for DL and LB. A bad draft for franchise QB's.

But, if the plan is to get a new QB, AD could yield a 1st round and 2nd round pick easily in my opinion. AD is solid and has 2 years left of a very friendly contract. I could see the Jags or the Giants consider AD so the #1 would be a great pick. Why not draft a stud OT and a stud LB in round one if we get a second pick? 

Then, look at a FA stop gap QB like:
1. Flacco
2. Tyrod Taylor

My point is I don't see a franchise QB in the draft in 2019, maybe the OSU kid, but I am not convinced. I would hate to see them reach for a QB after trading up (very expensive).

Nothing wrong with Dalton IMO. He has shown he can win in this league. I would only draft a QB if one like Haskins is there when we draft, I wouldn't trade up to get him or any QB. Haskins will probably be hyped to the point of a top 5 pick by the time the draft rolls around. I think our D line will be ok when we get Lawson and Glasgow back, with Ringo, Atkins and Dunlap. We need O linemen, Linebackers, and maybe another cornerback.

(01-01-2019, 11:01 PM)Sled21 Wrote: We don't need a QB, we need offensive linemen and linebackers

(01-01-2019, 11:01 PM)Sled21 Wrote: We don't need a QB, we need offensive linemen and linebackers

I agree, until the O-line is fixed it won't matter who the QB is.

Really isn't a QB that i like that much this year anyways. Is Kyler Murray entering the Draft? I know he is small but this guy just impressed me this year watching him play.

Think we ought to fix the Line and get some talented Linebackers and this team under a better HC can make a run. Draft a QB the year after to play under Dalton a year or two.

(01-01-2019, 11:28 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Nah Quinnim Williams from Alabama will probably be drafted ahead of him at 2. Also come combine time I think Polite and Burns might steel his thunder a bit at Edge.

I was at the Orange Bowl and I thought the Powers kid (Guard from Oklahoma) did a nice job on him. 

(01-01-2019, 11:03 PM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: trade Dalton to Jags for some of their Dtalent or their #1 if at all possible
This.


Historic bad defense. We need someone in the middle to change it, the mentality. A tough linebacker and someone who can run the field.

(01-01-2019, 10:59 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I was just looking at the draft order and pondering things.

Cards 1st they're probably not going QB. 49ers have Jimmy G so they won't either, Jets just took Darnold.

Then there's the Raiders. Gruden has been rolling the dice a lot and he loves him some Carr.

After that there's several teams that QB could/should be on the menu.

Bucs say Winston is coming back but I wouldn't bet on it. Giants will almost surely go QB with Manning winding down. The Jags have ummm Bortles. Stafford isn't getting younger for the Lions, and Keenum isn't all that inspiring for Denver.

I'm no draft guru but I doubt there will be any QB's left by 11, worth drafting that high.

If we do get a new younger offensive minded HC and new staff would it be time to roll the dice and try and trade up with Gruden ?

Mike Brown hasn't traded up that high in the draft since what early 90's ?

Is it time ?

IF they had been top 5, there is a chance they could have gotten Haskins.  As it is, I don't see that happening unless too many teams shy away from his lack of starts in college.  It didn't hurt Trubisky that much, though, going #2 overall, but in fairness he did play some games his prior two years.  

I think they will stay put and hope for an impact lB like White out of LSU.  That position has not been overdrafted of late and he could be the first LB off the board.  

(01-01-2019, 11:19 PM)ah5 Wrote: Won't make it past 2

Really?  Is he projected as a 3-4 Pass rusher?

(01-02-2019, 12:37 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Thing is this team is a good ways away from being a true contender. Can they and will Mike Brown do enough, quickly enough, for it to matter for the quickly getting into the final 1/3 of their careers core ?

Perhaps (with a new outside the Bengals tree HC) it would be best to go ahead and start the rebuild ? 

Package our 1st, 6th, and Dunlap, Raiders need pass rushers bad ! For their 1st ? Let Dalton help the rookie along ?

I dunno ? Perhaps it's best to build O and D lines and LBers and wait on next season for QB ?

If the Raiders took that deal, I would offer to drive Dunlap there for free...