(09-21-2015, 03:23 AM)Bryan Wrote: Simpson was our number #2 in Dalton's rookie year.

My bad. "career backup" Simpson was our #2.

(09-21-2015, 03:23 AM)Fresno B Wrote: I'm going to tell you one more time. If AJ Green (rookie or not) is your number 1, your in good hands, not a wolves.

No. Rookie Green wasn't even a top 10 receiver. You need to actually look at how good other receivers are, and not be a homer.

(09-21-2015, 03:27 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: My bad. "career backup" Simpson was our #2.

Simpson had the best year of his career playing second fiddle to Green. Makes you wonder how good he might have been had he continued his development in Jay Gruden's system that loved airing it out.

(09-21-2015, 03:30 AM)Bryan Wrote: Simpson had the best year of his career playing second fiddle to Green. Makes you wonder how good he might have been had he continued his development in Jay Gruden's system that loved airing it out.

So good the Bengals cut him.

(09-21-2015, 03:34 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: So good the Bengals cut him.

They didn't cut him. He signed with Minnesota. 

(09-21-2015, 03:37 AM)Bryan Wrote: They didn't cut him. He signed with Minnesota. 

I'm not trying to say Simpson was great, just that his first year in Gruden's system was solid. Had he continued his rapport with Dalton and continued to grow in Gruden's system, it's not unreasonable to think he could've gotten better.

Not again....

Maybe we should just admit that we have two groups on this forum that will never come to agreement on this topic. It was this type of topic that made the old forum unpleasant to be on and indeed a laughingstock on other Bengals forums (like Go-Bengals).

Really - we're 2-0 and Andy is playing great as is the offense overall. We actually played through the two fumbles and still hung 200 rushing yards and 3 pass TDs on the Chargers. The 45 yard pass to MLJ was a thing of beauty as were both the Eifert and Green TD passes. Let's enjoy it - we all are Bengals fans and we're in first place!

(09-21-2015, 02:29 AM)West Union KennyG Wrote: Absolutely not.  Quite honestly, when I look at his body of work, I really don't know how you can say that.
I may not have posted much around here, but on the original site I was one of the original members and have never been called a troll.

The green repper! Glad to see you made it over.....

....but no way AD is top5

(09-21-2015, 04:03 AM)Joelist Wrote: Not again....

Maybe we should just admit that we have two groups on this forum that will never come to agreement on this topic. It was this type of topic that made the old forum unpleasant to be on and indeed a laughingstock on other Bengals forums (like Go-Bengals).

Really - we're 2-0 and Andy is playing great as is the offense overall. We actually played through the two fumbles and still hung 200 rushing yards and 3 pass TDs on the Chargers. The 45 yard pass to MLJ was a thing of beauty as were both the Eifert and Green TD passes. Let's enjoy it - we all are Bengals fans and we're in first place!

How about the 20 yard bullet to AJ for a big third down conversion?  That was a real WOW moment for me.

(09-21-2015, 03:28 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: No. Rookie Green wasn't even a top 10 receiver. You need to actually look at how good other receivers are, and not be a homer.

A Dalton supporter calling someone a homer? Ironic.

The people who say that Andy is obviously a top 10 QB are idiots. The people who call him below average are idiots.

The arguments that go back and forth in threads like this just further prove both of those things.

At the end of the day, Andy is playing great this year, but there isn't room for "I told you so!!!" posts after 2 weeks. Andy WILL have bad games this year, even the greatest QBs of all time have bad games, it's absolutely going to happen. What remains to be seen is how often they come up and how bad they are when they do.

If we see another primetime Cleveland game where Andy is throwing the ball at the ground and in the stands the entire game along with a couple other awful performances, there will be quite the case for "Andy is being Andy again". If he continues playing very well as he is now with only a few slight bumps in the road here and there, he can put his foot in the door for top 10 QB talks. Neither side is going to be proven anything until the end of the year though.

(09-21-2015, 09:56 AM)djs7685 Wrote: The people who say that Andy is obviously a top 10 QB are idiots. The people who call him below average are idiots.

The arguments that go back and forth in threads like this just further prove both of those things.

At the end of the day, Andy is playing great this year, but there isn't room for "I told you so!!!" posts after 2 weeks. Andy WILL have bad games this year, even the greatest QBs of all time have bad games, it's absolutely going to happen. What remains to be seen is how often they come up and how bad they are when they do.

If we see another primetime Cleveland game where Andy is throwing the ball at the ground and in the stands the entire game along with a couple other awful performances, there will be quite the case for "Andy is being Andy again". If he continues playing very well as he is now with only a few slight bumps in the road here and there, he can put his foot in the door for top 10 QB talks. Neither side is going to be proven anything until the end of the year though.

Exactly, you have to look at the entire body of work over a season.  It makes no sense to say he's great and point to a single play like the pass to Green for a TD any more than saying he's terrible and point to a single missed pass to Sanu in the end zone.

(09-21-2015, 02:57 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: A constant with Dalton is when he gets superior protection he tends to play well. When things don't go according to script is when Dalton looks like he doesn't belong in the league. So far our offense has protected him and he's been upright all season long. I'm curious to see the game when he doesn't get the superior protection...will he be able to make plays?

He did just that Sunday....which is why I think we're seeing some opinions on the guy changing.  He just looks better.  He rolled out of the pocket, stepped up in it and made some nice throws.....and this is key....he threw the ball away several times, and tucked it and rana few times.  This is the biggest thing I took away from the Chargers game, along with better ball placement.  Even the notorious Bengal hater himself, Dan Fouts, was raving about his decision making under duress.  I wouldn't go as far as to say he's a top 10 QB in this league by no means....but I think he's right outside it, and if he continues to play within the scheme and make smart decisions.....he just might crack the top 10, who knows.

He is still a bit inaccurate on the long throws at times, but at least now, they are slight overthrows instead of underthrowing it into coverage.  The outlet in Eifert is a big help for, to be sure....the return of Marvin Jones is crucial too.  Throw in the dual threat of Rex Burkhead, and this offense has a chance to be special.

(09-21-2015, 09:56 AM)djs7685 Wrote: The people who say that Andy is obviously a top 10 QB are idiots. The people who call him below average are idiots.

The arguments that go back and forth in threads like this just further prove both of those things.

At the end of the day, Andy is playing great this year, but there isn't room for "I told you so!!!" posts after 2 weeks. Andy WILL have bad games this year, even the greatest QBs of all time have bad games, it's absolutely going to happen. What remains to be seen is how often they come up and how bad they are when they do.

If we see another primetime Cleveland game where Andy is throwing the ball at the ground and in the stands the entire game along with a couple other awful performances, there will be quite the case for "Andy is being Andy again". If he continues playing very well as he is now with only a few slight bumps in the road here and there, he can put his foot in the door for top 10 QB talks. Neither side is going to be proven anything until the end of the year though.

Right....and as Utts said in the OP.....if his lows can become more "meh", instead of the depths of despair, we may be in for something special.

(09-21-2015, 10:04 AM)Wyche Wrote: He did just that Sunday....which is why I think we're seeing some opinions on the guy changing.  He just looks better.  He rolled out of the pocket, stepped up in it and made some nice throws.....and this is key....he threw the ball away several times, and tucked it and rana few times.  This is the biggest thing I took away from the Chargers game, along with better ball placement.  Even the notorious Bengal hater himself, Dan Fouts, was raving about his decision making under duress.  I wouldn't go as far as to say he's a top 10 QB in this league by no means....but I think he's right outside it, and if he continues to play within the scheme and make smart decisions.....he just might crack the top 10, who knows.

He is still a bit inaccurate on the long throws at times, but at least now, they are slight overthrows instead of underthrowing it into coverage.  The outlet in Eifert is a big help for, to be sure....the return of Marvin Jones is crucial too.  Throw in the dual threat of Rex Burkhead, and this offense has a chance to be special.

THIS Andy, running THIS offense, with THIS defense bringing the pain, can take us anywhere we hope to go.

 EVERYBODY, coaches included, has stepped up their game.  Truly impressive to behold.

(09-21-2015, 09:55 AM)Fresno B Wrote: A Dalton supporter calling someone a homer? Ironic.

Nah, I'm just a realist. You're the one who's trying to act like the offense actually had weapons Daltons first couple of years.

Blah, blah, Andy, blah...Please merge into the Ultimate Andy Thread...

He's our QB...great start so far...not getting a new one anytime soon. Moving on...

(09-21-2015, 01:39 AM)Utts Wrote: ... and he's got off to a fantastic start ... as a huge Dalton critic I feel like I have to acknowledge when he plays well.

We've seen Andy go on some 2-3 game tears before, but the 0 INT's and the way he's getting rid of the ball is really impressive. He's also made some exceptional throws into tight windows.

He obviously can't play like this every week. My hope is his lows will be more "meh", than horrific dips. If he can smooth out the high/lows, maybe he'll have his best season ever.

(09-21-2015, 01:42 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Why can't he play like this every week? This is the first year he has a complete offense around him.

(09-21-2015, 01:59 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: I agree all around. I'm neither a Dalton-lover nor a Dalton-hater. I see him for what he is: an NFL-caliber QB, but a mediocre NFL-caliber QB. I think he is playing as well as his talent level will allow, which is enough. You can't ask or expect more from him. If he plays this way all season and with the talent provided all around him, this will be our best season in over 25 years IMO.

But in the end (and some of you won't like hearing it again), nothing will matter if they don't make the playoffs and win at least one. Those are the expectations. Period.

(09-21-2015, 02:12 AM)West Union KennyG Wrote: Lol - yea, AD is an "average to below average NFL QB."  
Anyone who doesn't have him top-10 is a moron, and I'd argue he's top-5.
A lot of the discussion around AD reminds me of the first year Cincy went to the SuperBowl and after game 1 people were booing Kenny Anderson and wanting him benched.  Some things never change.

It's only two games. Way to early to give anyone a career upgrade.

This Bengals team is probably the most talented I've seen in the last 25 years, maybe even the last 27 (last SB team).

Brownshoe makes the point very clearly, really, even though he doesn't realize it. Dalton is average or below when the team plays average, we've seen it many times and there's no point in list the games. He's been really good when the team plays really good. He's not like Brady or Rodgers or Ben or any of the top tier guys in that respect who have put up multiple good years even with suspect talent around them. Rodgers lost his best WR and hasn't skipped a beat and is 2-0.

Dalton may eventually become a top 5 guy, as the current elite ages. Manning is almost finished, Brady can't have more than 3 or 4 more years left him. Brees is showing his age also and I figure he's just about done. Rivers and Eli are also in the second halves of their careers.

Kenny Anderson played poorly in that first game of 1980 and was benched and the Bengals pulled out a win in that one, if I remember correctly.

(09-21-2015, 10:13 AM)McC Wrote: THIS Andy, running THIS offense, with THIS defense bringing the pain, can take us anywhere we hope to go.

 EVERYBODY, coaches included, has stepped up their game.  Truly impressive to behold.

Indeed.....Hue Jackson called a fine game yesterday for sure.  Guenther's troops are looking better too.

(09-21-2015, 02:52 AM)Fresno B Wrote: Dalton wasn't thrown to wolves. He actually rode coattails his first 4. This year is his make or break. No excuses.

This I completely don't understand.  What coattails did he "ride"? 

A lot of Cowboy fans were ready to give up on Romo after a lot of early career failures at the end of season and postseason.  I think they are finally realizing they have (had?) a pretty good QB.

There were a lot of Baltimore fans that had enough of Flacco before he went on his (one, and GREATLY aided by the amazing performance of Anquan "just toss it up and I will get it" Boldin) Super Bowl run.

Drew Brees wasn't adored early in his career.

Hell, Peyton Manning was doubted by many...

You get the picture?  This lack of support for Dalton is the same thing that happened all these places.  And like virtually all of these examples, the opinions changed when they won a title.  I think Dalton can do that this year.