Problem is you think Lewis made them successful and that was clearly not the case. As, once again, someone who is also in the the area, notice how Lewis talks about the Ravens success, but those players don't mention Lewis? Hell, they even talk more glowingly of Rex Ryan, and he was after Lewis. Marvin was along for he ride, and the players knew that. Not saying they hated Marvin, but he was and is not some defensive guru in the NFL.

As head coach, he didn't help mold any of the teams into world beaters on defense. Matter of fact, we knew that given time, the other team would score on us. If you say we can't blame him for that, then we can't give him credit, either. He may have helped make this franchise no longer perennial top three pickers in the draft, but that is far as it has gone.

By some of these people reasoning, our offensive line is better with Paul Alexander, since they played bad after he was removed, and had some good times while he was in charge.

(01-06-2019, 01:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Redskins had the #5 defense in the league the year Marv was their DC.

You only picked the number that was the highest. There are several defensive rankings and the yards was one. They were still losers and better closing out the season, the year before. They regressed and had pretty good players. As stated before, I live here. I am force fed Ravens and Redskins. He was another laughable Dan Snyder hire. Think Lewis is so great, follow him to his next job. 

How about a cherry pick something: Teams tend to do worse in the year after signing Lewis to a contract, so to solve that, never sign him. 

(01-06-2019, 02:47 PM)Destro Wrote: You only picked the number that was the highest. There are several defensive rankings and the yards was one. They were still losers and better closing out the season, the year before. They regressed and had pretty good players. As stated before, I live here. I am force fed Ravens and Redskins. He was another laughable Dan Snyder hire. Think Lewis is so great, follow him to his next job. 

How about a cherry pick something: Teams tend to do worse in the year after signing Lewis to a contract, so to solve that, never sign him. 

You still really have no plausible facts to say Marvin Lewis was not a good defensive coach when he coached defense.. you have your personal opinion yes, but factually Pittsburgh (lb coach), Baltimore and Washington did not regress with Marvin as a defensive coach they all improved while he was there... Washington actually did get better in his 1 year and regressed when he left.  Hell as bad as this year was especially with injuries 2nd half of season... I saw a stat on NFL Network that ranked the Bengals 6th in NFL defense over the last part of season that Marvin coached the defense.  

Here is a link to a nice short summary of Lewis as a defensive coach in the league that gives facts about his ability to coach defense.  He might not ever get a Head job again but if he wants to be a Defensive Coach again, I have little doubt he will land a job

https://247sports.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/Article/Steelers-may-hire-Marvin-Lewis-to-join-coaching-staff-127088994/

Can call it all opinions, as teams can have the same coaches and swing back and forth in rankings, which are subjective, as yards means nothing if the other team is scoring at will, especially on short fields. If you're defense is great, that can translate to wins, which it didn't. You think these players just started to suck after Lewis left? Just like the Ravens defense was good after Lewis left, including going to the and winning the Super bowl again.

Regardless, it was 15 years ago when some seem to think he was so great, and he has been a deer in headlights as a head coach. Going back to a DC is something where the game has passed him by. He doesn't carry any pedigree or respect to players on other teams. "This guy who always lost with the Bengals is going to teach me defense?" He has no validity. Give him credit for being there when first ballot Hall of Famers won the Super Bowl. He got his participation ring. One year as DC in Washington means something? Acting like he took no name bums and made them into stars, and then they folded without Marvin telling them to tackle the guy with the ball. Get out of here.

He watched the Bengals come from being the laughing stock, to successful ( not in the post season, mind you ), to back to being a laughing stock.

Say what you want about the man, but Stephan A. Smith has a national audience. His hot takes on Marvin Lewis were vicious and tended to be spot on. People know that. He is poisoned now. Can argue justly or not, but he is on the Chip Kelly level of NFL sad.

Bengals played "better" defense when he took over? How cute...did they win? Was anyone afraid of this defense? Is there any other direction the defense could have gone but better? Offense played "better" when Lazor took over, right? Oh I remember so many loving all over him; not so much now.

And the Steelers like him? Surprise, surprise. Been winning games for them for years. Wasn't Joey Porter their LB coach until this past week? The man could coach a full sentence out of his mouth. Clapping let's go would improve them.

(01-06-2019, 03:54 PM)Destro Wrote: Can call it all opinions, as teams can have the same coaches and swing back and forth in rankings, which are subjective, as yards means nothing if the other team is scoring at will, especially on short fields. If you're defense is great, that can translate to wins, which it didn't. You think these players just started to suck after Lewis left? Just like the Ravens defense was good after Lewis left, including going to the and winning the Super bowl again.

Regardless, it was 15 years ago when some seem to think he was so great, and he has been a deer in headlights as a head coach. Going back to a DC is something where the game has passed him by. He doesn't carry any pedigree or respect to players on other teams. "This guy who always lost with the Bengals is going to teach me defense?" He has no validity. Give him credit for being there when first ballot Hall of Famers won the Super Bowl. He got his participation ring. One year as DC in Washington means something? Acting like he took no name bums and made them into stars, and then they folded without Marvin telling them to tackle the guy with the ball. Get out of here.

He watched the Bengals come from being the laughing stock, to successful ( not in the post season, mind you ), to back to being a laughing stock.

Say what you want about the man, but Stephan A. Smith has a national audience. His hot takes on Marvin Lewis were vicious and tended to be spot on. People know that. He is poisoned now. Can argue justly or not, but he is on the Chip Kelly level of NFL sad.

Bengals played "better" defense when he took over? How cute...did they win? Was anyone afraid of this defense? Is there any other direction the defense could have gone but better? Offense played "better" when Lazor took over, right? Oh I remember so many loving all over him; not so much now.

And the Steelers like him? Surprise, surprise. Been winning games for them for years. Wasn't Joey Porter their LB coach until this past week? The man could coach a full sentence out of his mouth. Clapping let's go would improve them.

Deflecting and Deflecting.. you stated earlier he was not a good defensive coach before he got to Cincinnati, then you just give talking points. the Ravens were good ever he left. duh.. but they were not as good then when he was there.. you have refuted nothing of him as a defensive coach before he took Cincinnati as a head coach..  He did not achieve what we wanted as a head coach with the Bengals but to act like he is not a quality assistant coach in the past the facts do not show it.... and finally he was not a horrible head coach.. he did have a winning record when he finished, 4 league titles in a division of Steelers and Ravens and 7 playoff appearances, that is much better than many many coaches that have been head coaches in the history of the NFL.. The man is #24 in all time wins out of almost 500 coaches he have ever coached in the NFL

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/ 

PS:  When you start resorting to media heads as your facts.. you just lose all credibility , I have nothing left to say on this thread.. lol

I have to resort to nothing. He has proved nothing besides job security. The Redskins were better before he came, in the last part of the previous season. They were just so horrible in the beginning of the season, their ratings were down. Regardless, you think just because he was there means any improvement means it was due to him. Correlation is not causation. Like the Ravens won more Super Bowls with Ray Lewis than with Marvin Lewis. It is a fact.

Look, people have a leg up on Cincinnati news and actions than I, but I am in the heart of things in Maryland, where it has been non-stop Ravens and Redskins. You want to give Marvin high marks for what you think he did 15+ years ago in Maryland. Problem is that his name doesn't mean anything to either one of Maryland's teams, though some guy says the Redskins were "ranked better" the one year he was there. If they did better or worse the following years? Ravens were better on defense four years after he left? Is that because of him? Redskins were worse. Is that because of him?

Hey, maybe I am wrong and Bill Belichick has been blowing up his phone to help the Pats get 4 more trophies. Such a hot candidate for jobs. Marvin isn't having it.

(01-06-2019, 04:45 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Deflecting and Deflecting.. you stated earlier he was not a good defensive coach before he got to Cincinnati, then you just give talking points. the Ravens were good ever he left. duh.. but they were not as good then when he was there.. you have refuted nothing of him as a defensive coach before he took Cincinnati as a head coach..  He did not achieve what we wanted as a head coach with the Bengals but to act like he is not a quality assistant coach in the past the facts do not show it.... and finally he was not a horrible head coach.. he did have a winning record when he finished, 4 league titles in a division of Steelers and Ravens and 7 playoff appearances, that is much better than many many coaches that have been head coaches in the history of the NFL.. The man is #24  in all time wins out of almost 500 coaches he have ever coached in the NFL

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/ 

PS:  When you start resorting to media heads as your facts.. you just lose all credibility , I have nothing left to say on this thread.. lol

He's also 21st in games coached though. He's 86th in win %.

He's also tied with me for least playoff wins. Only he, Jim Mora and Norm Van Brocklin have coached 150+ games without a playoff win. This includes 59 coaches. Of course, Marv leads that category by a wide margin.

Of the 22 coaches with 250+ games, Marvin is 20th in win % (.518). Only Jeff Fisher (.512) and Weeb Eubank (.502) were worse. Marv is the only coach with 250+ games without at least 2 playoff wins.  

Of course, this doesn't mean Marv was a terrible HC, just that he was allowed to be awfully mediocre for an awfully long time.

(01-06-2019, 05:59 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: He's also 21st in games coached though. He's 86th in win %.

He's also tied with me for least playoff wins. Only he, Jim Mora and Norm Van Brocklin have coached 150+ games without a playoff win. This includes 59 coaches. Of course, Marv leads that category by a wide margin.

Of the 22 coaches with 250+ games, Marvin is 20th in win % (.518). Only Jeff Fisher (.512) and Weeb Eubank (.502) were worse. Marv is the only coach with 250+ games without at least 2 playoff wins.  

Of course, this doesn't mean Marv was a terrible HC, just that he was allowed to be awfully mediocre for an awfully long time.

"mediocre for an awfully long time" that will be Marvin's legacy.  Good but never good enough to get us past a playoff win, or constantly have winning seasons.

(01-06-2019, 06:28 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: "mediocre for an awfully long time" that will be Marvin's legacy.  Good but never good enough to get us past a playoff win, or constantly have winning seasons.

Yes, his playoff legacy will follow him. But, those who want to dismiss his success with coordinating defenses are full of crap. He proved it one more time taking an injured group ranked 32nd, then they were 6th while he coached them.

I will take a wait and see approach, soon we will see if it was a ML being  a bad coach or bad players or a new bad coach in 2019? If we don't make playoffs in 2019, then new guy sucks too right??

(01-06-2019, 05:59 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: He's also 21st in games coached though. He's 86th in win %.

He's also tied with me for least playoff wins. Only he, Jim Mora and Norm Van Brocklin have coached 150+ games without a playoff win. This includes 59 coaches. Of course, Marv leads that category by a wide margin.

Of the 22 coaches with 250+ games, Marvin is 20th in win % (.518). Only Jeff Fisher (.512) and Weeb Eubank (.502) were worse. Marv is the only coach with 250+ games without at least 2 playoff wins.  

Of course, this doesn't mean Marv was a terrible HC, just that he was allowed to be awfully mediocre for an awfully long time.

Again out of 500 coaches he is 82 in win percentage , 43 percent of his seasons he had bengals in playoffs, 25 percent of his tenure he won division titles, turned around one of worse francise runs of losing in NFL history sorry again facts are facts and not a mediocre as a head coach

(01-06-2019, 07:48 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Again out of 500 coaches he is 82 in win percentage , 43 percent of his seasons he had bengals in playoffs, 25 percent of his tenure he won division titles, turned around one of worse francise runs of losing in NFL history sorry again facts are facts and not a mediocre as a head coach

Many forget, ML took a 2 win team in 2002 to 8-8 in 2003 after Spikes and Dillon wanted out, arguably their 2 best players.

So, if the new guy can take improve 6 games n year one, we are 12-4 and a great move to get rid of Lewis. Let's see how it pans out for the new guy in 2019 and his first 3 years. The new guy inherits a vet QB and a great vet WR, a solid young RB and 2 very good DL vets with a number of young DL in the wings.

My point is the new guy inherits a much better roster than ML inherited in 2003.

If Marvin can get credit for what success is done in one year or in what happens in one year to the next, can he not get the blame for taking a perennial playoff team to back to back losing seasons? No good things were possible without him being there but bad things were not his fault?

(01-06-2019, 11:28 PM)Destro Wrote: If Marvin can get credit for what success is done in one year or in what happens in one year to the next, can he not get the blame for taking a perennial playoff team to back to back losing seasons? No good things were possible without him being there but bad things were not his fault?

I think he has already taken the blame?

Maybe next year he’ll get some interviews


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I think he'll be a D-cord. But I highly doubt many teams will go after ML for the optics alone (sad but true).

(01-05-2019, 02:27 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 8 opening currently. Has he had any visits? Rumors of visits?

Maybe he wasn't the hot commodity some thought he'd be?

I imagine after 16 years on hes gonna take at least 1 year off..

(01-06-2019, 07:55 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Many forget, ML took a 2 win team in 2002 to 8-8 in 2003 after Spikes and Dillon wanted out, arguably their 2 best players.

So, if the new guy can take improve 6 games n year one, we are 12-4 and a great move to get rid of Lewis. Let's see how it pans out for the new guy in 2019 and his first 3 years. The new guy inherits a vet QB and a great vet WR, a solid young RB and 2 very good DL vets with a number of young DL in the wings.

My point is the new guy inherits a much better roster than ML inherited in 2003.

Really ?

Jon Kitna
Corey Dillon
Rudi Johnson
Chad Johnson
TJ Housh
Peter Warrick
Reggie Kelly
Tony Stewart
Willie Anderson
Rich Braham
Levi Jones
Justin Smith
John Thorton
Kevin Hardy
Brian Simmons
Tory James

People want to act like Marvin walked into a total dumpster fire and by their record they were. But the roster was already well on it's way to being built.

(01-07-2019, 11:32 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Really ?

Jon Kitna
Corey Dillon
Rudi Johnson
Chad Johnson
TJ Housh
Peter Warrick
Reggie Kelly
Tony Stewart
Willie Anderson
Rich Braham
Levi Jones
Justin Smith
John Thorton
Kevin Hardy
Brian Simmons
Tory James

People want to act like Marvin walked into a total dumpster fire and by their record they were. But the roster was already well on it's way to being built.

don't care who was on the roster we went 2-14 the year before correct? that's a dumpster fire.

(01-07-2019, 11:34 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: don't care who was on the roster we went 2-14 the year before correct? that's a dumpster fire.

The roster was not a dumpster fire.