This may seem like a bit of numbers overload to soem people, but if you just look at one or two numbers it is hard to get a good picture. For example a very good pass defense can end up allowing a lot of pass yards if they are part of a good team that has a lot of big leads in the seecond half.

"Points allowed" which is the ulitimate goal of every defense can be affected by how bad the teams offense and special teams are. Not only does "points allowed" usually include return tds, but constant bad field position will lead to at least FGs for evn the best defenses.

What I call "situational defense" (3rd down and red zone) is critical. These plays only account for about 1/4 of the snaps, but they are the ones that usually determin who wins.

So when I look at all the team defensive stats I can argue that we were not the worst defense, but that is irrelevent because we were pretty bad all across the board.

RUSH...Teams ran at us a lot (4th most) and only 7 teams allowed more yards per carry than us (4.7). Only 5 teams gave up more rushing TDs, and only 3 gave up more yards. We gave up a lot of long runs, Only 7 teams allowed more 20+ yd runs than us. To top itoff we were terrible at forcing fumbles. Only 2 teams had less than our 3.

PASS... Opponents threw at us a lot (8th most) and only 6 teams allowed a higher pass efficency rating (100.0). We were dead last in yards allowed and 28th in yards per attempt. We were 28th in first downs allowed and 29th in tds allowed. We got burnt deep a lot (30th in 20+ yd completions, and 29th in 40+). We were 18th in interceptions and 28th in sacks (Sacks are just a part of pass pressure defense. I'll add in pressures and QB hits later but I don't think it will make a big diufference)

SITUATIONAL... Bengals were dead last in 3rd down conversion percentage. They were 25th in td percentage allowed in red zone (down from 4th just last year)

Overall we ranked 28th in points per play allowed (down from 10th last year) and dead last in percentage of opponents drives that ended in a score.

Thats it for now. I'll add some "short yardage" stats later along with more on our pass pressure.

The old eye test says it was horrendous. Credit to Merv for making it seem less so even if the stats don't match. I did see improvement in effort. LB's were still the killer with Merv.

(01-06-2019, 03:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This may seem like a bit of numbers overload to soem people, but if you just look at one or two numbers it is hard to get a good picture.  For example a very good pass defense can end up allowing a lot of pass yards if they are part of a good team that has a lot of big leads in the seecond half.

"Points allowed" which is the ulitimate goal of every defense can be affected by how bad the teams offense and special teams are.  Not only does "points allowed" usually include return tds, but constant bad field position will lead to at least FGs for evn the best defenses.

What I call "situational defense" (3rd down and red zone) is critical.  These plays only account for about 1/4 of the snaps, but they are the ones that usually determin who wins.

So when I look at all the team defensive stats I can argue that we were not the worst defense, but that is irrelevent because we were pretty bad all across the board.

RUSH...Teams ran at us a lot (4th most) and only 7 teams allowed more yards per carry than us (4.7).  Only 5 teams gave up more rushing TDs, and only 3 gave up more yards.  We gave up a lot of long runs,  Only 7 teams allowed more 20+ yd runs than us.  To top itoff we were terrible at forcing fumbles.  Only 2 teams had less than our 3.

PASS... Opponents threw at us a lot (8th most) and only 6 teams allowed a higher pass efficency rating (100.0).  We were dead last in yards allowed and 28th in yards per attempt.  We were 28th in first downs allowed and 29th in tds allowed.  We got burnt deep a lot (30th in 20+ yd completions, and 29th in 40+).  We were 18th in interceptions and 28th in sacks (Sacks are just a part of pass pressure defense. I'll add in pressures and QB hits later but I don't think it will make a big diufference)

SITUATIONAL... Bengals were dead last in 3rd down conversion percentage. They were 25th in td percentage allowed in red zone (down from 4th just last year)

Overall we ranked 28th in points per play allowed (down from 10th last year) and dead last in percentage of opponents drives that ended in a score.

Thats it for now.  I'll add some "short yardage" stats later along with more on our pass pressure.

I would be interested for the stat experts to give us before ML defense and after ML defense. I could be wrong, but I think our offense was much worse since AD and Green, then Boyd later went down which kept put the defense on the field more and with worse field position.

I read the ML defense was 6th, while the Austin defense was 32nd. If so, that is a huge improvement with worse personnel (injuries) versus better also.

(01-06-2019, 03:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This may seem like a bit of numbers overload to soem people, but if you just look at one or two numbers it is hard to get a good picture.  For example a very good pass defense can end up allowing a lot of pass yards if they are part of a good team that has a lot of big leads in the seecond half.

"Points allowed" which is the ulitimate goal of every defense can be affected by how bad the teams offense and special teams are.  Not only does "points allowed" usually include return tds, but constant bad field position will lead to at least FGs for evn the best defenses.

What I call "situational defense" (3rd down and red zone) is critical.  These plays only account for about 1/4 of the snaps, but they are the ones that usually determin who wins.

So when I look at all the team defensive stats I can argue that we were not the worst defense, but that is irrelevent because we were pretty bad all across the board.

RUSH...Teams ran at us a lot (4th most) and only 7 teams allowed more yards per carry than us (4.7).  Only 5 teams gave up more rushing TDs, and only 3 gave up more yards.  We gave up a lot of long runs,  Only 7 teams allowed more 20+ yd runs than us.  To top itoff we were terrible at forcing fumbles.  Only 2 teams had less than our 3.

PASS... Opponents threw at us a lot (8th most) and only 6 teams allowed a higher pass efficency rating (100.0).  We were dead last in yards allowed and 28th in yards per attempt.  We were 28th in first downs allowed and 29th in tds allowed.  We got burnt deep a lot (30th in 20+ yd completions, and 29th in 40+).  We were 18th in interceptions and 28th in sacks (Sacks are just a part of pass pressure defense. I'll add in pressures and QB hits later but I don't think it will make a big diufference)

SITUATIONAL... Bengals were dead last in 3rd down conversion percentage. They were 25th in td percentage allowed in red zone (down from 4th just last year)

Overall we ranked 28th in points per play allowed (down from 10th last year) and dead last in percentage of opponents drives that ended in a score.

Thats it for now.  I'll add some "short yardage" stats later along with more on our pass pressure.

I believe I've bolded and enlarged the key points.

1. Teams ran a lot of running plays against our defense.
2. Teams threw a lot of pass plays against our defense.
3. Our defense was dead last in stopping teams on 3rd down so the other teams got to run more running plays and throw more passing plays against our defense.


Or, in more simple language:

Our defense didn't stop other teams when they ran or threw, on first down, second down or third down, so drives were longer and we lost.


Or, in even more simply stated words:

Other teams out played our defense and we lost.


Or, in better language:

Our defense played so poorly that our defensive minded coach of 16 years was fired.

Let me summarize our 2018 defense for you in two words.....

WE SUCKED

In summary:

Our defense sucked

How many of you saw the Bears play the Eagles earlier today? Now those teams have great defenses and I was in awe during the entire game. I love the Bengals but the Cincinnati defense isn't in the same galaxy. It's not even in the same universe. If Mike Brown gets to interview the Bears' defensive coordinator, Vic Fangio, I think it might be a great opportunity to pick the brain of one of the top defensive minds in the NFL.

(01-06-2019, 03:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This may seem like a bit of numbers overload to soem people, but if you just look at one or two numbers it is hard to get a good picture.  For example a very good pass defense can end up allowing a lot of pass yards if they are part of a good team that has a lot of big leads in the seecond half.

"Points allowed" which is the ulitimate goal of every defense can be affected by how bad the teams offense and special teams are.  Not only does "points allowed" usually include return tds, but constant bad field position will lead to at least FGs for evn the best defenses.

What I call "situational defense" (3rd down and red zone) is critical.  These plays only account for about 1/4 of the snaps, but they are the ones that usually determin who wins.

So when I look at all the team defensive stats I can argue that we were not the worst defense, but that is irrelevent because we were pretty bad all across the board.

RUSH...Teams ran at us a lot (4th most) and only 7 teams allowed more yards per carry than us (4.7).  Only 5 teams gave up more rushing TDs, and only 3 gave up more yards.  We gave up a lot of long runs,  Only 7 teams allowed more 20+ yd runs than us.  To top itoff we were terrible at forcing fumbles.  Only 2 teams had less than our 3.

PASS... Opponents threw at us a lot (8th most) and only 6 teams allowed a higher pass efficency rating (100.0).  We were dead last in yards allowed and 28th in yards per attempt.  We were 28th in first downs allowed and 29th in tds allowed.  We got burnt deep a lot (30th in 20+ yd completions, and 29th in 40+).  We were 18th in interceptions and 28th in sacks (Sacks are just a part of pass pressure defense. I'll add in pressures and QB hits later but I don't think it will make a big diufference)

SITUATIONAL... Bengals were dead last in 3rd down conversion percentage. They were 25th in td percentage allowed in red zone (down from 4th just last year)

Overall we ranked 28th in points per play allowed (down from 10th last year) and dead last in percentage of opponents drives that ended in a score.

Thats it for now.  I'll add some "short yardage" stats later along with more on our pass pressure.

how about a compare of Marvin lead defense to that eye sore we had to start the year.

(01-06-2019, 07:38 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I would be interested for the stat experts to give us before ML defense and after ML defense. I could be wrong, but I think our offense was much worse since AD and Green, then Boyd later went down which kept put the defense on the field more and with worse field position.

I read the ML defense was 6th, while the Austin defense was 32nd. If so, that is a huge improvement with worse personnel (injuries) versus better also.

Austin was fired after the team was 5-4 and coming off high-powered offenses TB, New Orleans, KC, and Pittsburgh.
From Game 10 on (Marvin Lewis defense), the team yards and points per game allowed...
PPG = 23.8
YPG = 361.0

Yards and points per game allowed during Austin's tenure (9 games)...
PPG = 32.0
YPG = 454.5

Once again, I'm going to reiterate that the Bengals went up against better offenses when Austin was here vs when he was not, so Austin's PPG and YPG likely would have gone down if he had stayed the whole year. However, it does look that Marvin was better than Austin even if Austin's defense did improve with him still there.

There's no denying Marvin had them playing better than Austin. IMO But watching the playoff games over the weekend reaffirmed just how far we have to go. We desperately need a transfusion of good news.

(01-07-2019, 11:56 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Austin was fired after the team was 5-4 and coming off high-powered offenses TB, New Orleans, KC, and Pittsburgh.
From Game 10 on (Marvin Lewis defense), the team yards and points per game allowed...
PPG = 23.8
YPG = 361.0

Yards and points per game allowed during Austin's tenure (9 games)...
PPG = 32.0
YPG = 454.5

Once again, I'm going to reiterate that the Bengals went up against better offenses when Austin was here vs when he was not, so Austin's PPG and YPG likely would have gone down if he had stayed the whole year. However, it does look that Marvin was better than Austin even if Austin's defense did improve with him still there.

Also, Marvin's unit had more injuries to deal with.  I'll give him credit, his defense played much better as the games went on.  They played well at LA and they put up a helluva effort at Pitt.

After watching the Ravens/Chargers game yesterday, whoever we get as HC or DC, I hope like hell they watch tape of that game! LA did something exactly what us IGNORANT FANS on this board had been saying all season. They had DB's in the LB position forcing Jackson to throw by containing him with speedy DBs....

(01-07-2019, 11:56 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Austin was fired after the team was 5-4 and coming off high-powered offenses TB, New Orleans, KC, and Pittsburgh.
From Game 10 on (Marvin Lewis defense), the team yards and points per game allowed...
PPG = 23.8
YPG = 361.0

Yards and points per game allowed during Austin's tenure (9 games)...
PPG = 32.0
YPG = 454.5

Once again, I'm going to reiterate that the Bengals went up against better offenses when Austin was here vs when he was not, so Austin's PPG and YPG likely would have gone down if he had stayed the whole year. However, it does look that Marvin was better than Austin even if Austin's defense did improve with him still there.

I should point out where Marvin's defense would have ranked if it was the same throughout the whole year...
361.0 YPG would be 22nd in the league.
23.8 PPG would be 19th in the league.

(01-07-2019, 01:04 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: How many of you saw the Bears play the Eagles earlier today?  Now those teams have great defenses and I was in awe during the entire game.  I love the Bengals but the Cincinnati defense isn't in the same galaxy.  It's not even in the same universe.  If Mike Brown gets to interview the Bears' defensive coordinator, Vic Fangio, I think it might be a great opportunity to pick the brain of one of the top defensive minds in the NFL.

Its weird when you appreciate the little things, isnt it? Like when you watch the Bears or Eagles and the other team throws a screen pass and some one immediately runs up and tackles the guy instead of waiting there and getting run by or run over. I also love how every once in a while the defense stops the RB from , you know, running.

Its really sad to think that Pederson has almost won as many playoff games in the last 2 seasons as we have in the entire history of the Bengals.

Zero interceptions by a CB through 16 games is a little alarming

Have the Bengals ever had a defense comparable to the 2018-19 Bears or Eagles?  I cannot recall one.

Probably the best Bengals D was the 1982 Super Bowl team. Pretty sure we ran a 3-4 but I can be corrected.

(01-07-2019, 01:56 PM)bengals67 Wrote: Have the Bengals ever had a defense comparable to the 2018-19 Bears or Eagles?  I cannot recall one.

Probably the best Bengals D was the 1982 Super Bowl team. Pretty sure we ran a 3-4 but I can be corrected.

2009, 2011-13,2015 we were really good. 13 was the best I think we were 3rd I overall Defense that season.

(01-07-2019, 01:56 PM)bengals67 Wrote: Probably the best Bengals D was the 1982 Super Bowl team. Pretty sure we ran a 3-4 but I can be corrected.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cin/1981_roster.htm

It does show us as a 3/4.  I remember that d line with the nickname the WEBB, but I guess Burley was a back up.

(01-07-2019, 12:34 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I should point out where Marvin's defense would have ranked if it was the same throughout the whole year...
361.0 YPG would be 22nd in the league.
23.8 PPG would be 19th in the league.

Marvin brought the defense up a couple notches, I'll give him that. But when you look at the big picture it wasn't anything spectacular.

The Ravens ran all over us, the Browns crushed us in the first game and it probably should have been worse. He got his stats padded by playing the Raiders and at the end the Steelers didn't have AB.