(01-07-2019, 11:56 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Austin was fired after the team was 5-4 and coming off high-powered offenses TB, New Orleans, KC, and Pittsburgh.
From Game 10 on (Marvin Lewis defense), the team yards and points per game allowed...
PPG = 23.8
YPG = 361.0

Yards and points per game allowed during Austin's tenure (9 games)...
PPG = 32.0
YPG = 454.5

Once again, I'm going to reiterate that the Bengals went up against better offenses when Austin was here vs when he was not, so Austin's PPG and YPG likely would have gone down if he had stayed the whole year. However, it does look that Marvin was better than Austin even if Austin's defense did improve with him still there.

Agreed.

(01-06-2019, 03:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This may seem like a bit of numbers overload to soem people, but if you just look at one or two numbers it is hard to get a good picture. For example a very good pass defense can end up allowing a lot of pass yards if they are part of a good team that has a lot of big leads in the seecond half.

"Points allowed" which is the ulitimate goal of every defense can be affected by how bad the teams offense and special teams are. Not only does "points allowed" usually include return tds, but constant bad field position will lead to at least FGs for evn the best defenses.

What I call "situational defense" (3rd down and red zone) is critical. These plays only account for about 1/4 of the snaps, but they are the ones that usually determin who wins.

So when I look at all the team defensive stats I can argue that we were not the worst defense, but that is irrelevent because we were pretty bad all across the board.

RUSH...Teams ran at us a lot (4th most) and only 7 teams allowed more yards per carry than us (4.7). Only 5 teams gave up more rushing TDs, and only 3 gave up more yards. We gave up a lot of long runs, Only 7 teams allowed more 20+ yd runs than us. To top itoff we were terrible at forcing fumbles. Only 2 teams had less than our 3.

PASS... Opponents threw at us a lot (8th most) and only 6 teams allowed a higher pass efficency rating (100.0). We were dead last in yards allowed and 28th in yards per attempt. We were 28th in first downs allowed and 29th in tds allowed. We got burnt deep a lot (30th in 20+ yd completions, and 29th in 40+). We were 18th in interceptions and 28th in sacks (Sacks are just a part of pass pressure defense. I'll add in pressures and QB hits later but I don't think it will make a big diufference)

SITUATIONAL... Bengals were dead last in 3rd down conversion percentage. They were 25th in td percentage allowed in red zone (down from 4th just last year)

Overall we ranked 28th in points per play allowed (down from 10th last year) and dead last in percentage of opponents drives that ended in a score.

Thats it for now. I'll add some "short yardage" stats later along with more on our pass pressure.

When you are 4th in rush attempts and 8th in pass attempts against you, plus you are near to last in yards allowed, that means your defense is out on the field significantly more than your offense.

To me, that is an offensive issue. The best defense is a good offense.

(01-07-2019, 03:02 PM)XsandOs Wrote: When you are 4th in rush attempts and 8th in pass attempts against you, plus you are near to last in yards allowed, that means your defense is out on the field significantly more than your offense.

To me, that is an offensive issue. The best defense is a good offense.

Joe Goodberry crunched the numbers to find this...

Joe Goodberry Wrote:Over the past two seasons, the Bengals defense was on the field for 326 more snaps than the offense.
That's equivalent to playing 5 more games than the Bengals offense did.

https://twitter.com/JoeGoodberry/status/1080522431868080129

(01-06-2019, 03:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This may seem like a bit of numbers overload to soem people, but if you just look at one or two numbers it is hard to get a good picture. For example a very good pass defense can end up allowing a lot of pass yards if they are part of a good team that has a lot of big leads in the seecond half.

"Points allowed" which is the ulitimate goal of every defense can be affected by how bad the teams offense and special teams are. Not only does "points allowed" usually include return tds, but constant bad field position will lead to at least FGs for evn the best defenses.

What I call "situational defense" (3rd down and red zone) is critical. These plays only account for about 1/4 of the snaps, but they are the ones that usually determin who wins.

So when I look at all the team defensive stats I can argue that we were not the worst defense, but that is irrelevent because we were pretty bad all across the board.

RUSH...Teams ran at us a lot (4th most) and only 7 teams allowed more yards per carry than us (4.7). Only 5 teams gave up more rushing TDs, and only 3 gave up more yards. We gave up a lot of long runs, Only 7 teams allowed more 20+ yd runs than us. To top itoff we were terrible at forcing fumbles. Only 2 teams had less than our 3.

PASS... Opponents threw at us a lot (8th most) and only 6 teams allowed a higher pass efficency rating (100.0). We were dead last in yards allowed and 28th in yards per attempt. We were 28th in first downs allowed and 29th in tds allowed. We got burnt deep a lot (30th in 20+ yd completions, and 29th in 40+). We were 18th in interceptions and 28th in sacks (Sacks are just a part of pass pressure defense. I'll add in pressures and QB hits later but I don't think it will make a big diufference)

SITUATIONAL... Bengals were dead last in 3rd down conversion percentage. They were 25th in td percentage allowed in red zone (down from 4th just last year)

Overall we ranked 28th in points per play allowed (down from 10th last year) and dead last in percentage of opponents drives that ended in a score.

Thats it for now. I'll add some "short yardage" stats later along with more on our pass pressure.

Yeah, it was really bad and with these players inexcusable. Austin did a terrible job as did Haslett once again.

The 3rd down conversion percentage and terrible LB'er play were the most frustrating.

(01-07-2019, 03:02 PM)XsandOs Wrote: When you are 4th in rush attempts and 8th in pass attempts against you, plus you are near to last in yards allowed, that means your defense is out on the field significantly more than your offense.

To me, that is an offensive issue. The best defense is a good offense.

True, the Offense sure didn't help the Defense out that is for sure.

(01-07-2019, 03:14 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Joe Goodberry crunched the numbers to find this...
https://twitter.com/JoeGoodberry/status/1080522431868080129

No surprise, thanks for this Ocho.

(01-07-2019, 03:14 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Joe Goodberry crunched the numbers to find this...
https://twitter.com/JoeGoodberry/status/1080522431868080129

It goes without saying that a big part of that is from giving up so many 3rd downs. I'm quite sure we're among the worst in the league over the last two seasons.

Is there some site that breaks down the 3rd and longs gave up ? 3rd and 7 or greater or something ? I'd bet we're among if not the worst in the NFL at giving up 3rd and long as well.

How many times this season did we give up 3rd and 10's+ 

(01-07-2019, 03:24 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: It goes without saying that a big part of that is from giving up so many 3rd downs. I'm quite sure we're among the worst in the league over the last two seasons.

Is there some site that breaks down the 3rd and longs gave up ? 3rd and 7 or greater or something ? I'd bet we're among if not the worst in the NFL at giving up 3rd and long as well.

How many times this season did we give up 3rd and 10's+ 

Don't know the numbers but we had to of been the worst. Everytime we got a team in 3rd down it seemed like i just knew we were going to give them a first. Never seen a team this bad as this year. It was like automatic.

Our DB's would play a soft cushion and our Linebackers couldn't cover or tackle worth a damn.

(01-07-2019, 03:24 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: It goes without saying that a big part of that is from giving up so many 3rd downs. I'm quite sure we're among the worst in the league over the last two seasons.

Is there some site that breaks down the 3rd and longs gave up ? 3rd and 7 or greater or something ? I'd bet we're among if not the worst in the NFL at giving up 3rd and long as well.

How many times this season did we give up 3rd and 10's+ 

The Bengals were last place in opponent third-down conversion percentage in 2018...at 48.88%.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-third-down-conversion-pct

They were also last place in opponent number of third-downs-converted-per-game in 2018...at 6.8 per game.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-third-down-conversions-per-game

(01-07-2019, 03:14 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Joe Goodberry crunched the numbers to find this...
https://twitter.com/JoeGoodberry/status/1080522431868080129

But.....last year's offense was much worse than this season's was out of the gate.  Also, said defense couldn't get itself off of the field either season as well.  The offense was a huge issue last season, a little bit this season, but the defense's lack of ability to get off the field themselves is also a huge culprit.

(01-07-2019, 04:01 PM)Wyche Wrote: But.....last year's offense was much worse than this season's was out of the gate.  Also, said defense couldn't get itself off of the field either season as well.  The offense was a huge issue last season, a little bit this season, but the defense's lack of ability to get off the field themselves is also a huge culprit.

Ok, well then just look at this past season.
Bengals averaged 58.6 offensive plays per game (30th)
Bengals averaged 67.8 defensive plays per game (30th)
That's about 150 additional snaps per season.

(01-07-2019, 04:01 PM)Wyche Wrote: But.....last year's offense was much worse than this season's was out of the gate.  Also, said defense couldn't get itself off of the field either season as well.  The offense was a huge issue last season, a little bit this season, but the defense's lack of ability to get off the field themselves is also a huge culprit.

I was thinking the samething. Offense could have helped more that's for sure, but a lot of times it was just the defense being it's own worst enemy.

(01-07-2019, 01:56 PM)bengals67 Wrote: Have the Bengals ever had a defense comparable to the 2018-19 Bears or Eagles?  I cannot recall one.

Probably the best Bengals D was the 1982 Super Bowl team. Pretty sure we ran a 3-4 but I can be corrected.

The 1982 Team was ranked third in rush defense. It was the year after SB, so it was only 1/2 season due to strike.

Then Freeman McNeil ran all over us in the playoffs.

The defense played two hand touch all season. Marvin should have them running basic tackling drills every day of the week and pay the fine later. Tackle or get cut. That was the most frustrating thing to me in this defense. Yeah, a more talented player can just beat you on a play here and there. I can live with that, but the basics being ignored is frustrating. Lombardi, in that classic clip, "everybody grabbing out there, nobody tackling."

(01-07-2019, 12:32 PM)sandwedge Wrote: After watching the Ravens/Chargers game yesterday, whoever we get as HC or DC, I hope like hell they watch tape of that game! LA did something exactly what us IGNORANT FANS on this board had been saying all season. They had DB's in the LB position forcing Jackson to throw by containing him with speedy DBs....

And I'm still stunned that the Ravens had no answer ready for the answer the Bolts put on them.

(01-07-2019, 05:14 PM)XsandOs Wrote: The 1982 Team was ranked third in rush defense. It was the year after SB, so it was only 1/2 season due to strike.

Then Freeman McNeil ran all over us in the playoffs.

If I remember right, the '81 team had the #1 defense.  Hank Bullough, DC.

(01-07-2019, 07:29 PM)McC Wrote: And I'm still stunned that the Ravens had no answer ready for the answer the Bolts put on them.

Was a great adjustment by the Chargers, never seen that before with 3 Safeties playing all the LB positions as Romo pointed out.

Was brilliant, how many sacks did Engram have in that game? Seemed like atleast 3. They were all over Lamar. Thing of beauty, that is what we need in a HC.

This is why i like Bienemy i think the most for us, he loves being creative and doing things no other team would do. Being ahead of the game.

(01-07-2019, 07:35 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Was a great adjustment by the Chargers, never seen that before with 3 Safeties playing all the LB positions as Romo pointed out.

Was brilliant, how many sacks did Engram have in that game? Seemed like atleast 3. They were all over Lamar. Thing of beauty, that is what we need in a HC.

This is why i like Bienemy i think the most for us, he loves being creative and doing things no other team would do. Being ahead of the game.

He had two sacks.  And, I think, two fumble recoveries.  As a team, LA had seven.  They made him look like a rookie, which is exactly what you're supposed to do.

(01-07-2019, 07:35 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Was a great adjustment by the Chargers, never seen that before with 3 Safeties playing all the LB positions as Romo pointed out.

Was brilliant, how many sacks did Engram have in that game? Seemed like atleast 3. They were all over Lamar. Thing of beauty, that is what we need in a HC.

This is why i like Bienemy i think the most for us, he loves being creative and doing things no other team would do. Being ahead of the game.

Yes it is ! Marvin rarely, if ever, stepped out of the box. 

(01-07-2019, 03:24 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Is there some site that breaks down the 3rd and longs gave up ? 3rd and 7 or greater or something ? I'd bet we're among if not the worst in the NFL at giving up 3rd and long as well.

Looked up the nubers.  Surprisingly the league average first down conversion on 3rd and 7 or longer was 25.7%.  That seems high to me.  But Bengals were 30th (thank you Atlanta and oakland) allowing 31.9% conversion.

For some perspective the Vikings only alowed a 30.2% on all third down conversions of any length.

(01-07-2019, 08:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Looked up the nubers.  Surprisingly the league average first down conversion on 3rd and 7 or longer was 25.7%.  That seems high to me.  But Bengals were 30th (thank you Atlanta and oakland) allowing 31.9% conversion.

For some perspective the Vikings only alowed a 30.2% on all third down conversions of any length.

I wouldn't have guessed league average was over 25% either. But as I expected we were among the worst.