(09-21-2015, 12:19 PM)treee Wrote: I don't know if I'd say our Defense was great. I can definitely see them getting exploited by a good OC if they don't get their shit together.

I swear the Bengals are the only team that can have a top ten defense and people still act like its not great...

Palmer's biggest weakness...turnovers. Averages 17.1 INT's per year for his career.
Andy Dalton averages 16.0 INT's per year for his career.

(09-21-2015, 02:22 PM)ItsOdellThurman Wrote: Even at his peak performance (Palmer is playing as good now as he was for the Bengals years ago), his biggest weakness is his decision making and composure.  We all doubted his ability to get it done in the clutch as a Bengal and I don't know why it's any different now.

Palmer has been vastly different in the last 17 games (minus the 4-INT game against the Seahawks in 2013) and he's 15-2 in that span.  The AZ offenses clicked after the bye week the first year in the Arians system.

Carson has thrown 34 TDs to 13 INTs in the 17 games since and while I'm not saying he is a top-tier QB, I will say if you can't see a difference between his latter years with the Bengals and now that you don't know the facts.

(09-21-2015, 02:53 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Palmer has been vastly different in the last 17 games (minus the 4-INT game against the Seahawks in 2013) and he's 15-2 in that span.  The AZ offenses clicked after the bye week the first year in the Arians system.

Carson has thrown 34 TDs to 13 INTs in the 17 games since and while I'm not saying he is a top-tier QB, I will say if you can't see a difference between his latter years with the Bengals and now that you don't know the facts.

I have said this many times, the guy was built for Bruce Arian's system.  He looks like the Palmer of 2005, not a guy who is in his middle 30's with some pretty serious injuries in the past (not to mention the nerve damage in his shoulder that I read is permanent).  Like you, I am happy for him.

(09-21-2015, 02:56 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: I have said this many times, the guy was built for Bruce Arian's system.  He looks like the Palmer of 2005, not a guy who is in his middle 30's with some pretty serious injuries in the past (not to mention the nerve damage in his shoulder that I read is permanent).  Like you, I am happy for him.

I don't blame Bengals fans for not being current on a QB in the NFC West, be it Palmer or not, but people keep using outdated arguments against him.  I was listening to a pick-em podcast (it wasn't good) and all 5 guys picked the Bears to beat the Cardinals because "Cutler can sometimes be good and Palmer struggles with turnovers."  One guy said he was a Bengals fan and that Palmer always throws pick sixes and that he's going to revert into the same old guy any day now and blah blah blah.

It's just lazy analysis.  It's like people saying "Who cares, they always lose in the playoffs" as their response to anything the Bengals do.

(09-21-2015, 03:02 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I don't blame Bengals fans for not being current on a QB in the NFC West, be it Palmer or not, but people keep using outdated arguments against him.  I was listening to a pick-em podcast (it wasn't good) and all 5 guys picked the Bears to beat the Cardinals because "Cutler can sometimes be good and Palmer struggles with turnovers."  One guy said he was a Bengals fan and that Palmer always throws pick sixes and that he's going to revert into the same old guy any day now and blah blah blah.

It's just lazy analysis.  It's like people saying "Who cares, they always lose in the playoffs" as their response to anything the Bengals do.

To be fair the defenses that Palmer has been going against since the bye in 2013 haven't been that great, and when he did play the Seahawks he had the 4 pick game (which was the last time he played the Seahawks).

(09-21-2015, 02:37 PM)thegimp Wrote: I swear the Bengals are the only team that can have a top ten defense and people still act like its not great...

Lmao have you seen our LB corp? Rey M., AJ Hawk, and Vinny Rey? We're lucky that we have such a good Dline or else we'd be getting destroyed on the ground.

(09-21-2015, 03:04 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: To be fair the defenses that Palmer has been going against since the bye in 2013 haven't been that great, and when he did play the Seahawks he had the 4 pick game (which was the last time he played the Seahawks).

True, but Palmer during his turnover issue days still threw INTs against softer defenses.  Like I said, he isn't the greatest, but he seems to have really reduced his old weakness.

He's had good to great games against the
Rams (multiple times)
Texans
Titans
Eagles
49ers
Cowboys
Chargers


and there are probably some decent defenses in there.  QBs that a turnover prone (including Palmer) don't always limit the mistakes against soft defenses, either.

(09-21-2015, 03:09 PM)Nately120 Wrote: True, but Palmer during his turnover issue days still threw INTs against softer defenses.  Like I said, he isn't the greatest, but he seems to have really reduced his old weakness.

He's had good to great games against the
Rams (multiple times)
Texans
Titans
Eagles
49ers
Cowboys
Chargers


and there are probably some decent defenses in there.  QBs that a turnover prone (including Palmer) don't always limit the mistakes against soft defenses, either.

The Texans, and 49ers were a top 10 defense when they played them, so I will give you that. The Chargers he couldn't get his offense to score more than 18 points.

The Titans were a middle of the pack defense when he played them, same with the Rams. The Cowboys were ranked 19th, and the Eagles were ranked 29th.

(09-21-2015, 03:14 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: The Texans, and 49ers were a top 10 defense when they played them, so I will give you that. The Chargers he couldn't get his offense to score more than 18 points.

The Titans were a middle of the pack defense when he played them, same with the Rams. The Cowboys were ranked 19th, and the Eagles were ranked 29th.

Meh, gotta beat who is in front of you.  I'm just saying he's 15-2 since the AZ offense got on the same page and if Romo, Peyton Manning, or one of Super Genius Chip Kelly's QBs were on such a streak the talking heads (not the awesome band) wouldn't shut up about it.  Other than the Seattle game, he's been a factor in why they are winning, too.  All that for a 6th round pick, go figure.

(09-21-2015, 03:14 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: The Texans, and 49ers were a top 10 defense when they played them, so I will give you that. The Chargers he couldn't get his offense to score more than 18 points.

The Titans were a middle of the pack defense when he played them, same with the Rams. The Cowboys were ranked 19th, and the Eagles were ranked 29th.

What are you going by, total yards per game?

I look at the last 15 or so teams Carson has played against and I see plenty of good players in the secondary and good cover linebackers among them.

If you look at ANY quarterback, you'll probably see the same. It's not a small sample size here, he has played well against some shitty pass defenders, some mediocre pass defenders, and some great ones too. There's no need for a disclaimer when someone mentions Carson playing well as of late, he has been and that's a fact.

I know your whole narrative of the AFCN being a huge powerhouse defensive division may not like this, but Andy is going to play against a few horrible looking secondaries in 2015, and I highly doubt you're going to be happy with anyone refusing to give him credit if he plays well against them. Let's just keep calling it as it is and say that Carson has looked very good in Arians' system.

(09-21-2015, 03:23 PM)djs7685 Wrote:  Let's just keep calling it as it is and say that Carson has looked very good in Arians' system.

True that.  People pointed out how weak the 2 defenses he played this season are and he responded by throwing 7 TDs and a single pick (which was a great play by Jared Allen).  The days of Palmer throwing a pick six before he warms up seem to be behind him (for now?) not that those sentiments weren't overblown, anyways

(09-21-2015, 03:17 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Meh, gotta beat who is in front of you.  I'm just saying he's 15-2 since the AZ offense got on the same page and if Romo, Peyton Manning, or one of Super Genius Chip Kelly's QBs were on such a streak the talking heads (not the awesome band) wouldn't shut up about it.  Other than the Seattle game, he's been a factor in why they are winning, too.  All that for a 6th round pick, go figure.

Palmer has been playing good. He's been beating a lot of teams. A lot of those teams have been bad teams though. He's only played 5 teams with a .500 or better record in his last 17 games though. I don't want to seem like I'm taking away from Palmer, because I do think he's been playing well. I just think you should look at the details on why he's had such a good record.

(09-21-2015, 03:23 PM)djs7685 Wrote: What are you going by, total yards per game?

I look at the last 15 or so teams Carson has played against and I see plenty of good players in the secondary and good cover linebackers among them.

If you look at ANY quarterback, you'll probably see the same. It's not a small sample size here, he has played well against some shitty pass defenders, some mediocre pass defenders, and some great ones too. There's no need for a disclaimer when someone mentions Carson playing well as of late, he has been and that's a fact.

I know your whole narrative of the AFCN being a huge powerhouse defensive division may not like this, but Andy is going to play against a few horrible looking secondaries in 2015, and I highly doubt you're going to be happy with anyone refusing to give him credit if he plays well against them. Let's just keep calling it as it is and say that Carson has looked very good in Arians' system.

If you look at points per game for the defenses he's been playing it's just as bad though.

(09-21-2015, 03:25 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Palmer has been playing good. He's been beating a lot of teams. A lot of those teams have been bad teams though. He's only played 5 teams with a .500 or better record in his last 17 games though. I don't want to seem like I'm taking away from Palmer, because I do think he's been playing well. I just think you should look at the details on why he's had such a good record.

Yes, but I'm saying the old Palmer in the Bengals system could beat bad teams but I doubt he could have gone 17 games and thrown only 13 INTs that's the point.  The guy is having a late-career resurgence and while the situation may be favorable, I've seen players with more favorable situations do less with the fortunes.

EDIT: Don't forget the Cardinals have boasted a run game that ranked 23rd and then 31st in his first 2 seasons in AZ.

It is kinda funny, I've been watching NFLN for about an hour and I've seen highlights/analysis of Philly/Dallas 3 times now. Not a word on the Bengals.

Whateva

(09-21-2015, 04:02 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: It is kinda funny, I've been watching NFLN for about an hour and I've seen highlights/analysis of Philly/Dallas 3 times now. Not a word on the Bengals.

Whateva

Why does that not surprise me?

(09-21-2015, 03:25 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Palmer has been playing good. He's been beating a lot of teams. A lot of those teams have been bad teams though. He's only played 5 teams with a .500 or better record in his last 17 games though. I don't want to seem like I'm taking away from Palmer, because I do think he's been playing well. I just think you should look at the details on why he's had such a good record.

That's fair. I just thought you were trying to take away from Palmer and discredit him for his recent success. I have no issue looking into details of given situations and I actually encourage that in any conversation. All good

Palmer has looked sharp lately, and I'm going to root for him in every game except when we go out to Arizona. It's pretty cool to see a guy in his mid 30's playing some of his best football, especially when he has ties to my favorite team to boot.

Thread bitching about the media not talking enough about the Bengals turns into a Carson Palmer thread. Got it.

(09-21-2015, 04:13 PM)djs7685 Wrote: That's fair. I just thought you were trying to take away from Palmer and discredit him for his recent success. I have no issue looking into details of given situations and I actually encourage that in any conversation. All good

Palmer has looked sharp lately, and I'm going to root for him in every game except when we go out to Arizona. It's pretty cool to see a guy in his mid 30's playing some of his best football, especially when he has ties to my favorite team to boot.

Yeah.  Especially a guy who quit on this franchise to play for the Raiders.

I wish him all the best.