(09-21-2015, 01:42 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Why can't he play like this every week? This is the first year he has a complete offense around him.

I will add....that most QB's are at their best as they become wise old veterans.....I know the fans get all excited about draft picks and rookie QBs, but the fans are stupid.....Now the veteran Rivers yesterday scared the heck out of me in that game. A rookie you can confuse with defenses, but a wise old veteran reads the defenses and attacks the weak spots all day long.  Fitz is a much better QB now than he was for the Bengals because more and more he becomes a wise old veteran.........What Dalton did his first 4 years is amazing. 2 Pro Bowls, Threw 20 or more TD passes in each of his first 3 seasons and only done by Dan Marino and Peyton Manning.  4 straight play-off seasons and no Bengals QB ever did that. As for the play-offs, the only play-off game we were the favorite and lost was his third season and losing in The Jungle to Chargers. The other 3 play-off games on the road, I'm not surprised we lost and it was amazing the 4 win Bengals of 2010 were led by a rookie to the play-offs in 2011 and 2012. We limped into Indy last season too injured and no chance for a win....but Dalton has had a great first 4 years in the NFL, far better than most rookies in NFL history.......When the Bengals play a rookie QB, or a 2nd year QB, that doesn't worry me much. A good D can beat them. But in the NFL a wise old veteran can pick apart the best of defenses all game long. This is why I'm glad Dalton is entering his veteran years, his first 4 years as a young man learning his trade behind him. I'm looking forward to Dalton, the wise old veteran reading defenses as a trained craftsman. 

Now in the AFC North we go against 2 wise old QBs and one QB still a rookie to me. I would rather the Bengals play Johnny Football than the 2 wise old QBs of Steelers an Ravens. I know the fans like the new draft picks, but the quarterbacks that will pick apart the best of defenses are the veterans who have experience and can read defenses in their sleep, their job becoming just another day at the office. ....Now Dalton has really had a great first 4 years in the NFL compared to all other rookie QBs that have ever played in the NFL. Now going into his 5th season, it should all start clicking in as he becomes a veteran QB that can read defense in his sleep, and can pick the best of defenses apart as a veteran QB. Some of you may get all excited over the rookie QBs, but it's veterans like Rivers that can just eat a defense apart all game long, no longer confused by NFL defenses. 

Andy Dalton who to me was very good his first 4 years, should get better with age and be a wise old veteran, the kind I hate to see our Bengals play.  Ken Anderson was at his best in 1981 as if the game had became too easy for the 9 year veteran. Fitz is much better now than when with Bengals. Plunkett got better with age and Elway won late in his career. QB is one position in football you want experience over youth. Dalton should be entering his best football years. That Dalton has started 70 regular season and play-off games should help as he reaches the point where he can read defense in his sleep.

Also, for the fans, the fans cheered when Ken Anderson got injured and the back-up Turk came in the game to start 1981. The fans wanted Ken Anderson replaced and Turk to play all season. Ken Anderson was not replaced and ended up the NFL MVP in 1981....So I have seen the fans, very, very, very wrong.

As I've always said Dalton will have bad games like any other NFL QB but he has a lot more average to great games.

The big picture though is that Dalton has started every single game of his NFL career and is one tough SoB. On his designed run yesterday he got drilled in the head and on that almost fumble before the end of the first half he took a big hit to his throwing arm. I've seen him get in front of Terrell Suggs as a blocker agsinst the run I've seen him get smashed on countless QB sneaks.  Tough SoB

Dalton deserves the recognition, but what he really deserves is for people to remember he can play when he has a bad game. Folks tend to forget his good games quickly in order to deem him a bum after a bad outing. A bad outing like all qb's will come eventually. When they do, folks can't act like he's never made the 3 good throws McCarron made in the 3rd preseason game. That's a perfect example of why it's a shame to see the heat Dalton takes nationally. All the throws he's made and McCarron makes 3 and everyone acts like Dalton has never made any like that. How quick we tend to forget.

(09-21-2015, 09:56 AM)djs7685 Wrote: The people who say that Andy is obviously a top 10 QB are idiots. The people who call him below average are idiots.

The arguments that go back and forth in threads like this just further prove both of those things.

At the end of the day, Andy is playing great this year, but there isn't room for "I told you so!!!" posts after 2 weeks. Andy WILL have bad games this year, even the greatest QBs of all time have bad games, it's absolutely going to happen. What remains to be seen is how often they come up and how bad they are when they do.

If we see another primetime Cleveland game where Andy is throwing the ball at the ground and in the stands the entire game along with a couple other awful performances, there will be quite the case for "Andy is being Andy again". If he continues playing very well as he is now with only a few slight bumps in the road here and there, he can put his foot in the door for top 10 QB talks. Neither side is going to be proven anything until the end of the year though.

This post should be the...notes? disclaimer?...whatever you want to call it, at the top of this 'Andy forum'. If his bad games stay 70 or above (tannehill didn't dip below 70 last year) and if he passes the test on the first prime-time game, there will be reason for optimism going forward. As stated, there are no "i told you so's" until he plays well and the team wins a playoff game. 

(09-21-2015, 01:59 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: I agree all around. I'm neither a Dalton-lover nor a Dalton-hater. I see him for what he is: an NFL-caliber QB, but a mediocre NFL-caliber QB. I think he is playing as well as his talent level will allow, which is enough. You can't ask or expect more from him. If he plays this way all season and with the talent provided all around him, this will be our best season in over 25 years IMO.

But in the end (and some of you won't like hearing it again), nothing will matter if they don't make the playoffs and win at least one. Those are the expectations. Period.

He has a 120.3 passer rating so far. He's nearly been flawless. If that's all "his talent level will allow", he must be pretty talented. Dalton really can't win with some. If he sucks, it's his fault. If he's great, it's all thanks to the talent around him. 

How about we just give him his due credit when he's playing well, and stop pigeonholing him as an average (or below QB). If Dalton has a fantastic season, maybe he's better than some thought? 

(09-21-2015, 02:46 AM)Bryan Wrote: There's a thread, specifically for Andy Dalton. So, why did you make another one?

So every mention of Dalton goes here? That's kind of stupid.

(09-21-2015, 02:03 PM)Utts Wrote: So every mention of Dalton goes here? That's kind of stupid.

It's actually a great idea. Instead of 5 "different" threads that end up arguing the same thing, there's one. Should have been done on the mothership as well. 

(09-21-2015, 09:56 AM)djs7685 Wrote: The people who say that Andy is obviously a top 10 QB are idiots. The people who call him below average are idiots.

The arguments that go back and forth in threads like this just further prove both of those things.

At the end of the day, Andy is playing great this year, but there isn't room for "I told you so!!!" posts after 2 weeks. Andy WILL have bad games this year, even the greatest QBs of all time have bad games, it's absolutely going to happen. What remains to be seen is how often they come up and how bad they are when they do.

If we see another primetime Cleveland game where Andy is throwing the ball at the ground and in the stands the entire game along with a couple other awful performances, there will be quite the case for "Andy is being Andy again". If he continues playing very well as he is now with only a few slight bumps in the road here and there, he can put his foot in the door for top 10 QB talks. Neither side is going to be proven anything until the end of the year though.

I agree with this post 100%, except I can't suggest that the Green Repper an idiot. I really liked that dude on the old boards. That said, I strongly disagree that Dalton is top 5 or even top 10. Now if Dalton can maintain close to this level of play through the season while not having many huge stinkers, I do think it's possible he gets around top 10. Rankings are always fluid.

It's way too early to tell, and way too early for I told you so's. I'm anxious to see though. He's really being smart with the ball, his accuracy has been outstanding and they're doing a superb job of spreading the ball around to literally everyone. I just hope he can continue to show all these things when the line starts giving up some sacks and more pressure, because that's definitely going to happen.

(09-21-2015, 02:12 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I agree with this post 100%, except I can't suggest that the Green Repper an idiot. I really liked that dude on the old boards. That said, I strongly disagree that Dalton is top 5 or even top 10. Now if Dalton can maintain close to this level of play through the season while not having many huge stinkers, I do think it's possible he gets around top 10. Rankings are always fluid.

It's way too early to tell, and way too early for I told you so's. I'm anxious to see though. He's really being smart with the ball, his accuracy has been outstanding and they're doing a superb job of spreading the ball around to literally everyone. I just hope he can continue to show all these things when the line starts giving up some hits and more pressure, because that's definitely going to happen.

Yeah I was just trying to be as blunt as possible, I don't think a lot of these guys are actually idiots, but I'm not really one to soften things up

There are guys like Toast that have been really tough on Andy and then guys like Brownshoe that make too many excuses for the guy, but I actually agree with those 2 posters specifically a LOT on topics that aren't exactly Andy Dalton related. I find that to be a trend with a handful of the Andy extremists on both sides, a lot of them (outside of obvious trolls) are pretty reasonable when it comes to the team in general, they just have REALLY strong feelings about the QB for whatever reason. I just think it's absurd to hold the opinion that Andy is a below average quarterback in the NFL or that he's a top 10 lock. Those both sound completely crazy to me.

Andy has been great. I hope it continues, I really do. He seems like a really good person and he hasn't been considered average due to lack of trying, he just made too many mental mistakes in the past and isn't the perfect QB physically. Andy looks almost transformed this season compared to the past years, but I'm just afraid that I've seen this before. Last year I was super hyped on Andy after the first 3-4 weeks especially, but then it fizzled out by the year's end and he looked like the same old guy. This year, it seems to be a much bigger difference in terms of the changes that he's made, but I just really, really, really hope that it continues and that these aren't temporary adjustments.

He's going to have some bad games this year, everyone needs to be expecting that. Some are going to fall off the bandwagon the first time he throws an INT or two and has a sub-80 passer rating, but I'm willing to give him a large enough sample size (need to see multiple primetime performances and more dominance at 1PM on Sundays) before taking a firm stance on him this year.

(09-21-2015, 02:36 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Yeah I was just trying to be as blunt as possible, I don't think a lot of these guys are actually idiots, but I'm not really one to soften things up

There are guys like Toast that have been really tough on Andy and then guys like Brownshoe that make too many excuses for the guy, but I actually agree with those 2 posters specifically a LOT on topics that aren't exactly Andy Dalton related. I find that to be a trend with a handful of the Andy extremists on both sides, a lot of them (outside of obvious trolls) are pretty reasonable when it comes to the team in general, they just have REALLY strong feelings about the QB for whatever reason. I just think it's absurd to hold the opinion that Andy is a below average quarterback in the NFL or that he's a top 10 lock. Those both sound completely crazy to me.

Andy has been great. I hope it continues, I really do. He seems like a really good person and he hasn't been considered average due to lack of trying, he just made too many mental mistakes in the past and isn't the perfect QB physically. Andy looks almost transformed this season compared to the past years, but I'm just afraid that I've seen this before. Last year I was super hyped on Andy after the first 3-4 weeks especially, but then it fizzled out by the year's end and he looked like the same old guy. This year, it seems to be a much bigger difference in terms of the changes that he's made, but I just really, really, really hope that it continues and that these aren't temporary adjustments.

He's going to have some bad games this year, everyone needs to be expecting that. Some are going to fall off the bandwagon the first time he throws an INT or two and has a sub-80 passer rating, but I'm willing to give him a large enough sample size (need to see multiple primetime performances and more dominance at 1PM on Sundays) before taking a firm stance on him this year.

Once again, I totally agree. We've seen some long stretches where Dalton played like this (POtM in Oct '13 comes to mind) so lets just say I'm cautiously optimistic.

That said, it seems different this time. His deep accuracy has been better, he's made some plays rolling away from pressure, he's been throwing it away at the right times, etc. We'll see. I really want to see how he handles the Browns considering they've owned him for like 3 years now.

(09-21-2015, 02:03 PM)Utts Wrote: So every mention of Dalton goes here? That's kind of stupid.

I think it makes sense....and one guy said instead of 5 different Dalton threads....I say, instead of 5 thousand different Dalton threads. ....The endless Dalton threads on the old Jungle Noise was just stupid, even to threads such as, " what if Andy Dalton showed up at our door with pancakes ? "......So I agree with dumping all Andy Dalton threads into one huge on going thread......and I agree, the old mothership should have done this. 

(09-21-2015, 02:03 PM)Utts Wrote: So every mention of Dalton goes here? That's kind of stupid.

Only stupid if you want your own special spotlight for a Dalton thread.

Otherwise, it's ***** amazing.

Ken Anderson can Oktoberfest chicken dance. Can Dalton Oktoberfest chicken dance..... .....Polka RULES, Born To Polka...For those about to polka, We Salute You

(09-21-2015, 06:50 PM)kevin Wrote: I think it makes sense....and one guy said instead of 5 different Dalton threads....I say, instead of 5 thousand different Dalton threads. ....The endless Dalton threads on the old Jungle Noise was just stupid, even to threads such as, " what if Andy Dalton showed up at our door with pancakes ? "......So I agree with dumping all Andy Dalton threads into one huge on going thread......and I agree, the old mothership should have done this.

Lol, that was a good one.  I advocated for Jordan Dalton to deliver them instead. 

I like it too.  Andy is like sand at the beach, it just gets into everything.  So, let's keep the love, hate, and every emotion in between in one spot where we can wallow in it or avoid it altogether. 

(09-21-2015, 09:26 PM)Awful Llama Wrote: Lol, that was a good one.  I advocated for Jordan Dalton to deliver them instead. 

I like it too.  Andy is like sand at the beach, it just gets into everything.  So, let's keep the love, hate, and every emotion in between in one spot where we can wallow in it or avoid it altogether. 

I'm down.  I'm in the Mid-Atlantic.  Can it be long distance delivery?

(09-21-2015, 11:35 AM)jj22 Wrote: Dalton deserves the recognition, but what he really deserves is for people to remember he can play when he has a bad game.

Folks tend to forget his good games quickly in order to deem him a bum after a bad outing. A bad outing like all qb's will come eventually. When they do, folks can't act like he's never made the 3 good throws McCarron made in the 3rd preseason game. That's a perfect example of why it's a shame to see the heat Dalton takes nationally. All the throws he's made and McCarron makes 3 and everyone acts like Dalton has never made any like that. How quick we tend to forget.

You mean like A. Luck had tonight.

Luck may have throw for 250 yards, but he also fumbled, threw 3 picks and the Jets dropped an easy 4th pick.

Luck will someday be in the HOF in my opinion, yet this home game tonight, he looked like a rookie versus a 3 year starter.

(09-22-2015, 01:10 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: You mean like A. Luck had tonight.

Luck may have throw for 250 yards, but he also fumbled, threw 3 picks and the Jets dropped an easy 4th pick.

Luck will someday be in the HOF in my opinion, yet this home game tonight, he looked like a rookie versus a 3 year starter.

Which QB is Which?


QB1:
17-4-1 outside his division since 2013
5 TDs 0 turnovers in 2015

QB2
10-12 outside his division since 2013
3 TDs 6 turnovers in 2015

(09-21-2015, 10:26 AM)BengalChris Wrote: It's only two games. Way to early to give anyone a career upgrade.

This Bengals team is probably the most talented I've seen in the last 25 years, maybe even the last 27 (last SB team).

Brownshoe makes the point very clearly, really, even though he doesn't realize it. Dalton is average or below when the team plays average, we've seen it many times and there's no point in list the games. He's been really good when the team plays really good. He's not like Brady or Rodgers or Ben or any of the top tier guys in that respect who have put up multiple good years even with suspect talent around them. Rodgers lost his best WR and hasn't skipped a beat and is 2-0.

Dalton may eventually become a top 5 guy, as the current elite ages. Manning is almost finished, Brady can't have more than 3 or 4 more years left him. Brees is showing his age also and I figure he's just about done. Rivers and Eli are also in the second halves of their careers.

Kenny Anderson played poorly in that first game of 1980 and was benched and the Bengals pulled out a win in that one, if I remember correctly.

Did you watch the game yesterday?

I saw holding penalties, offensive pass interference and 2 lost fumbles by Hill.

I would say the defense played the pass very well, the run not so well, Nugent missed a chip shot field goal, but Huber was great.

I think AD did overcome a lot of our mistakes yesterday.

(09-22-2015, 01:12 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Which QB is Which?


QB1:
17-4-1 outside his division since 2013
5 TDs 0 turnovers in 2015

QB2
10-12 outside his division since 2013
3 TDs 6 turnovers in 2015

Luck is #2 as he has only won in his career against the AFCS thus far.

(09-21-2015, 10:26 AM)BengalChris Wrote: It's only two games. Way to early to give anyone a career upgrade.

This Bengals team is probably the most talented I've seen in the last 25 years, maybe even the last 27 (last SB team).

Brownshoe makes the point very clearly, really, even though he doesn't realize it. Dalton is average or below when the team plays average, we've seen it many times and there's no point in list the games. He's been really good when the team plays really good. He's not like Brady or Rodgers or Ben or any of the top tier guys in that respect who have put up multiple good years even with suspect talent around them. Rodgers lost his best WR and hasn't skipped a beat and is 2-0.

Dalton may eventually become a top 5 guy, as the current elite ages. Manning is almost finished, Brady can't have more than 3 or 4 more years left him. Brees is showing his age also and I figure he's just about done. Rivers and Eli are also in the second halves of their careers.

Kenny Anderson played poorly in that first game of 1980 and was benched and the Bengals pulled out a win in that one, if I remember correctly.

Name a QB that plays good even without good receivers around him not named Aaron Rodgers. There is no QB in the NFL that can do that except one, and he still doesn't have horrible weapons right now either. Brady looked meh when Gronk wasn't around in 2013. Brees looks bad right now. All the good QBs have weapons, so stop trying to act like they don't.