(01-17-2019, 03:54 PM)Synric Wrote: Which isn't an different than just running the shallow cross. It's just an extra wrinkle to the same play.

Yea that goes into the "everything looks the same" idea. Out of 11 you have the extra WR anyways a lot of times they run him on an out or corner from the weak side. You send him on a post with the drag turning up behind it and you catch the defense sleeping. You could even do it as a sight adjustment off the standard play against cover 3, and cover 4 to and extent in 3x1 if 2 to the trips side runs a dig creating a Mills concept on the trips side with the wheel filling behind it. 

That offense begins and ends with the offensive line though. They will need to bring in at the very least a good RT if they feel Westerman or maybe even Rod Taylor can fill in at RG.

They will need to consistently run the ball to open up all the play action McVay uses...All in all it's an offense I can see Andy Mixon AJ Boyd and even Ross be very successful.

Edit: If Taylor wants a QB I can see Daniel Jones fitting very well.

The Bengals cannot fix the offense in one season. But they could possibly raise the defensive to a top tier level if they "hit" on drafting 2 backers, maybe safety replacement for Williams and moving Williams to a backer position, maybe another D-Lineman, Keep Ringo.

Just something to think about.

(01-17-2019, 03:29 PM)Au165 Wrote: The rams use a lot of deep crossing patterns in their offense and this would actually benefit Ross more than running straight vertical. The issue with going vertical is it relies on you running the "line" and not getting squeezed to the sideline by the CB. When you get squeezed it causes a lot of missed completions down the field because balls get put out of bounds because the QB has to put it away from the CB. With deep crossing concepts you get the depth your looking for but it is more of a diagonal direction which allows the WR to create separation laterally and then go straight into RAC. They do this at a shallower depth as well with what's called a mesh concept. It's essentially running drags from both sides of the field towards each other. This also allows for more RAC but has the added bonus of creating organic picks when facing man coverage.

Where the Rams as a whole excel isn't in any special concepts it's in how they convey it. They basically run two running plays all game they are stretch zone running plays that let Gurley push the edge or cut back down the seam when teams over pursue. All play action comes off these two plays which means teams get no tells from the play action itself. They will use a lot of motions and formations, but in the end the offense is very simple they just make it look a lot more complicated than it really is through their window dressing.

I haven't watched a lot of the Rams this season or last.....just in spots, but this is what I thought I read about them. Thanks for the insight and in depth analysis. :andy:

(01-17-2019, 12:34 PM)Interceptor Wrote: Watch - we don't get Taylor as HC. He either stays on his current team or is attracted away from us by a better offer.

Everyone counting chickens before they hatch.

Well at least we haven't been indoctrinated on a Hobson article telling us all about his greatness in everything from going to church to the stories of how his pappy was a blue collar guy who struggled and a mama who had to mop floors to put him through the 3rd grade, etc., so on, so forth and blah, blah, blah.... Yet.. 
He'll undoubtedly be the greatest thing since sliced bread up until the moment that it's pointed out that the automatic bread slicing machine was invented in 1928.. 
Don't ask me what this all means. I don't want to have to explain how absolutely nothing means anything.. 

(01-17-2019, 04:11 PM)Synric Wrote: That offense begins and ends with the offensive line though. They will need to bring in at the very least a good RT if they feel Westerman or maybe even Rod Taylor can fill in at RG.

They will need to consistently run the ball to open up all the play action McVay uses...All in all it's an offense I can see Andy Mixon AJ Boyd and even Ross be very successful.

Edit: If Taylor wants a QB I can see Daniel Jones fitting very well.

Be interesting to see if they draft him.  We'd have a good situation for him here, and for the team.  Dalton around for a year or two, and Jones.  Jones would be one of this year's crop I'd actually be interested in.

(01-17-2019, 02:01 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Yeah I read that somewhere also. Basically they ran the same 11 plays on offense, but ran them out of different formations.

Yep, lots of eye candy 

(01-17-2019, 02:44 PM)likwit19 Wrote: All these plays the article shows/describes feature competent blocking, something the Bengals could not do consistently this season.

Hopefully they can fix the Oline this offseason

(01-17-2019, 02:52 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Been watching Gurley in that Offense and he doesn't just beat you in the run game, he can beat a team through the air just as effectively. Mixon is the perfect back for this also and it is not like AJ Green and Tyler Boyd are any worse than the Rams #1 and #2. This simplifies the Offense as they run a lot of the same plays just out of different formations.

We need to solidify the O-line and draft a TE somewhere in the 3rd or 4th rounds, very deep at TE this Draft.

Can't wait to see what Mixon can do !

(01-17-2019, 04:11 PM)Synric Wrote: That offense begins and ends with the offensive line though. They will need to bring in at the very least a good RT if they feel Westerman or maybe even Rod Taylor can fill in at RG.

They will need to consistently run the ball to open up all the play action McVay uses...All in all it's an offense I can see Andy Mixon AJ Boyd and even Ross be very successful.

Edit: If Taylor wants a QB I can see Daniel Jones fitting very well.

All things considered Mixon had a good year with the line we have now. The fact they do a lot of play action with run blocking concepts instead of standard pass blocking gives a little leeway in my mind. I'm all for upgrading the O line every year, but I think the LB and defense in general is a bigger concern (I still think we need a mid to high CB this year).

Daniel Jones is more of a west coast passer to me and I'm not sure he fits here, I really think if he goes QB it would be a Kylar Murray as crazy as that may sound with the Air Raid concepts McVay has used. Haskins could get away with it because the mesh stuff OSU ran was really similar to a lot of what the Rams did. I think he waits and let's Dalton take his shot at it.

With a nearly complete turnover of staff the question really should be if he'll be able to bring it all together within a reasonable time frame.. As far as I can tell there's only a few holdovers, Simmons and...? Anyone else at this point? 

(01-17-2019, 05:26 PM)grampahol Wrote: With a nearly complete turnover of staff the question really should be if he'll be able to bring it all together within a reasonable time frame.. As far as I can tell there's only a few holdovers, Simmons and...? Anyone else at this point? 

Van Pelt, Bicknell, the WR coach, one of the DB coaches, Burney still here but supposedly mulling retirement.

(01-17-2019, 03:29 PM)Au165 Wrote: The rams use a lot of deep crossing patterns in their offense and this would actually benefit Ross more than running straight vertical. The issue with going vertical is it relies on you running the "line" and not getting squeezed to the sideline by the CB. When you get squeezed it causes a lot of missed completions down the field because balls get put out of bounds because the QB has to put it away from the CB. With deep crossing concepts you get the depth your looking for but it is more of a diagonal direction which allows the WR to create separation laterally and then go straight into RAC. They do this at a shallower depth as well with what's called a mesh concept. It's essentially running drags from both sides of the field towards each other. This also allows for more RAC but has the added bonus of creating organic picks when facing man coverage.

Where the Rams as a whole excel isn't in any special concepts it's in how they convey it. They basically run two running plays all game they are stretch zone running plays that let Gurley push the edge or cut back down the seam when teams over pursue. All play action comes off these two plays which means teams get no tells from the play action itself. They will use a lot of motions and formations, but in the end the offense is very simple they just make it look a lot more complicated than it really is through their window dressing.

Well said Au, i think this would benefit the entire Offense from the QB to the RB's to the Receivers. Dalton is a very good Slot and Post route QB, i bet he would thrive on Mesh and deep crossing patterns with our Wideouts. That is the thing about this type of Offense it is very unpredictable cause they line up in the same formations a lot and like you said especially in the running game. This would only help Mixon with this concept and simplify the Offense for everyone.

(01-17-2019, 03:33 PM)McC Wrote: The maddening thing is if you look at what he did so well in college, why did the Bengals do none of it?  Makes no sense.  When they ran him deep, it was usually to the middle of the field.  They seldom ran him down the sidelines when they sent him deep.

There just seemed to be too much of this is our offense, we're gonna just fit him into it.  If that was the intent, then drafting him truly was a stupid move.

Never used him right under Zamp or Lazor. Think this type of Offense that the Rams run would be perfect for him just like it is for Cooks who is a lot like him in size and speed.

(01-17-2019, 03:38 PM)Au165 Wrote: Getting a clean release off the line in the pro's is much different then in college. I mentioned that in my assessment of him coming out. I was concerned with his ability to beat press man early and thought he'd be best used in motion from stacked formations. The other area of struggle since he has been in the NFL is sight adjustments to coverages. He was never asked to read coverages in college and his created issues with his ability to make changes on the fly and him and Andy to be on the same page.

That was my concern with Ross, when they played bump and run on him. Just thought he would get free more once and awhile when they tried it. I think you are right and they need to use him more in motion and in stacked and bunch formations, this might open it up for him to play more free and gain more confidence with Dalton.

(01-17-2019, 05:01 PM)Au165 Wrote: All things considered Mixon had a good year with the line we have now. The fact they do a lot of play action with run blocking concepts instead of standard pass blocking gives a little leeway in my mind. I'm all for upgrading the O line every year, but I think the LB and defense in general is a bigger concern (I still think we need a mid to high CB this year).

Daniel Jones is more of a west coast passer to me and I'm not sure he fits here, I really think if he goes QB it would be a Kylar Murray as crazy as that may sound with the Air Raid concepts McVay has used. Haskins could get away with it because the mesh stuff OSU ran was really similar to a lot of what the Rams did. I think he waits and let's Dalton take his shot at it.

I think the overall depth is better on the defensive side with a scheme that fits better if would be more successful like it did when Marvin took over. The depth on offense is bad...very bad.

I say Daniel Jones would fit because it isnt a straight up vertical passing scheme so he doesnt need the Josh Allen arm. Jones can hit those crossers and the play action boots McVay likes to run. His eye discipline is probably the best in the draft so he could create extra YAC with his eyes in the Air Raid system. It's a simple offense to learn so he could do it from day 1.

But I agree Dalton could run that offense and look doing it.

(01-17-2019, 05:39 PM)Synric Wrote: I think the overall depth is better on the defensive side with a scheme that fits better if would be more successful like it did when Marvin took over. The depth on offense is bad...very bad.

I say Daniel Jones would fit because it isnt a straight up vertical passing scheme so he doesnt need the Josh Allen arm. Jones can hit those crossers and the play action boots McVay likes to run. His eye discipline is probably the best in the draft so he could create extra YAC with his eyes in the Air Raid system. It's a simple offense to learn so he could do it from day 1.

But I agree Dalton could run that offense and look doing it.

From what I've seen, the intangibles from Jones is what I like best about him.  Doesn't hurt to be coached by Cutcliffe either.

(01-17-2019, 05:39 PM)Synric Wrote: I think the overall depth is better on the defensive side with a scheme that fits better if would be more successful like it did when Marvin took over. The depth on offense is bad...very bad.

I say Daniel Jones would fit because it isnt a straight up vertical passing scheme so he doesnt need the Josh Allen arm. Jones can hit those crossers and the play action boots McVay likes to run. His eye discipline is probably the best in the draft so he could create extra YAC with his eyes in the Air Raid system. It's a simple offense to learn so he could do it from day 1.

But I agree Dalton could run that offense and look doing it.

My concern is Jones ball velocity is really suspect. He can get his body behind deep shots, but when he has to step into intermediate routes or cross field throws they hang a bit. I'd like to see his velocity numbers when he throws at the combine to maybe relieve some of those concerns for me. I like him in some of these screen game/west coast systems (Raiders), but I think we are going to work enough intermediate here that I'd like a little more juice. 

(01-17-2019, 05:43 PM)Au165 Wrote: My concern is Jones ball velocity is really suspect. He can get his body behind deep shots, but when he has to step into intermediate routes or cross field throws they hang a bit. I'd like to see his velocity numbers when he throws at the combine to maybe relieve some of those concerns for me. I like him in some of these screen game/west coast systems (Raiders), but I think we are going to work enough intermediate here that I'd like a little more juice. 

If he can't hit those intermediate routes he wont fit any scheme because at times he will have to throw downfield into tight windows because it's the NFL. Its the same with Will Grier who did run the air raid at WVU.

Alot of QBs have alot to prove at the Senior Bowl.

(01-17-2019, 04:24 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Be interesting to see if they draft him.  We'd have a good situation for him here, and for the team.  Dalton around for a year or two, and Jones.  Jones would be one of this year's crop I'd actually be interested in.

Daniel Jones doesn’t bring the name or flash as other QBs but he looks really good. Kinda like Mitch Trubisky is who I compare too. I’d take Jones in a heart beat. 3 qb will go too 10 in the draft.

(01-17-2019, 02:12 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: 1. Relying on a healthy Eifert is just asinine.  
2. Rams very rarely use go routes for their wideouts. Mostly crossing patterns n screens.  I’ve watched them a lot this year since they are on tv here.
3. Ross is Simpson 2.0

1. Hoping he's your third best target is hardly relying on him, and like I said, the Bengals are *hoping*. Dude's snake bit for sure.
2. I just said I felt it was a huge mistake not ever throwing him screen passes, and you reply that the Rams throw a lot of screen passes. Sounds like a good combo to me!
3. Hey, I'll take 700 yards from their #3 WR. Ross is always going to get hammered because of where he was drafted, and yeah, it can be fun to play the whole "they could have had X instead" game, but you can't change it. The Bengals need him to be a good #3 before they worry about him coming a good #1.

Ross didn't exactly do himself any favors last year but it was pretty obvious from Day 1 that the former coaching staff had no clue how to use him. At the very least you'd think if you had a young WR who was struggling that you would try to set up a few plays specifically designed to put him in a position to succeed, but the Bengals never even tried to do that.

That said, if I'm John Ross I'm doing everything I can to work with Andy this offseason to gain some chemistry with him and confidence from him.

All Taylor has to do to be the best thing we've had for the offense in years is actually design the scheme around what the players do well, and actually use that scheme and design to get his players open.

Well, I'm late to the game, again. And, as usual, all the good things have already been said.

However, I will add that from what I saw in the highlighted plays, if we're going to somewhat resemble the Rams Offense, I'm as happy as I can be. This can only mean that the OL is going to get a hell of a lot better, in a short period of time.