I’m amazed that we are arguing if Dalton is a SB level QB.

I mean honestly, just watch the games. I mean sure I think we could make it, but I would be surprised if it was because Dalton carried us.

I want a team that is consistently competing. That takes a great QB. One year runs at a SB are cool.. I want multi year competitiveness. I think a lot of the fan base doesn’t feel that way with Dalton.

(01-18-2019, 03:05 AM)thillan Wrote: I’m amazed that we are arguing if Dalton is a SB level QB.

I mean honestly, just watch the games. I mean sure I think we could make it, but I would be surprised if it was because Dalton carried us.

I want a team that is consistently competing. That takes a great QB. One year runs at a SB are cool.. I want multi year competitiveness. I think a lot of the fan base doesn’t feel that way with Dalton.

So you feel any QB not of HOF caliber (capable of carrying average team to SB win) is not viable??

Fair enough, but he is capable of carrying a great defensive, special teams and good skilled players team to a Super Bowl. That is my opinion and only an opinion as Dalton has never had all of those things in any given season.

My point is many of us believe he is as good as Doug Williams, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco and many others with Super Bowl wins, but his team did not have a dominating defense and great special teams and a great offensive group around him come playoff time due to injuries in some cases, but more so talent.

You say argument, I say discussion and debate. It is definitely up for debate.

(01-17-2019, 03:44 PM)Joelist Wrote: Hopefully the mods take care of the troll soon...

Geeez.. It took me a full page worth of reading to figure out the latest ban here and I've come to the conclusion that in my old age I just don't know quite how to be trendy and "edgy" by consistently bashing Andy Dalton and just about every other player on the team. Consistently bashing MB I understand. I've been a fan of the team too long to not get that, Bashing MB isn't trendy nor edgy, it's just a matter of how life works as a Bengals fan. But bashing Andy for no good reason? Well...I guess I just will never see the big picture although I do have a pretty big monitor screen. 
edit: I see there is actually some debate about Andy so here's my 2 pennies worth... Every QB in football is only going to be as good as the other players and coaches. Some better than others of course and some will never quite cut it, but none can completely carry a team if not enough of the receivers are good enough, the offensive line isn't up to snuff and coaches are calling dumb plays regularly. We've all seen Andy throw the ball dead on the money to receivers only to see them drop it on multiple occasions, especially this past year. My feelings are that if Andy has the right guys around him and a competent play caller he's as good as any in the league. It's tough to ask for much more. 

(01-17-2019, 11:31 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: Here's what I don't understand. Many, many, many posters on this board have pointed to Marvin Lewis as a major issue as to why the Bengals never took the next step. They talk about how his poor clock management, lack of adjustments, and unwillingness to form a game plan around his talent as things that seriously hindered the team. They speak of how they would like see (insert player here) with a new coaching staff and how they would perform. How Lewis and his antiquated coaching held (insert player here) back from reaching their true potential. They use that for every player except 1, Andy Dalton.

Why do people believe that every player (even Ross) can potentially shine under a new coach but Dalton simply cannot? Why is a coaching change going to improve them but not Andy? It doesn't make sense. For some reason, any and every player has the ability to improve except Dalton. It makes absolutely no damn sense.

I think it's a QB thing, but I would honestly like to know.  I'm perfectly happy giving Andy a shot with Taylor to see what he can do.  On the other hand, if Taylor decides to move on from him then I'm ok with that too.  This is a team game, so let's get the best one on the field.

(01-18-2019, 03:05 AM)thillan Wrote: I’m amazed that we are arguing if Dalton is a SB level QB.

I mean honestly, just watch the games. I mean sure I think we could make it, but I would be surprised if it was because Dalton carried us.

I want a team that is consistently competing. That takes a great QB. One year runs at a SB are cool.. I want multi year competitiveness. I think a lot of the fan base doesn’t feel that way with Dalton.

A load of horse crap.

Dalton will NEVER be a QB1 of a super bowl team I promise you that window has passed now it’d take a perfect storm for that to happen and it’s not going to happen. Quit with the delusions!! If not this off season next off season we’ll need to obtain his replacement. I wouldn’t say we’re fully rebuilding but fully transitioning for sure

(01-18-2019, 04:31 PM)TSwigZ Wrote: Dalton will NEVER be a QB1 of a super bowl team I promise you that window has passed now it’d take a perfect storm for that to happen and it’s not going to happen. Quit with the delusions!! If not this off season next off season we’ll need to obtain his replacement. I wouldn’t say we’re fully rebuilding but fully transitioning for sure

He at least deserves one year with a new voice.  And you can be getting the next guy ready at the same time.  

(01-18-2019, 02:52 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: So you feel any QB not of HOF caliber (capable of carrying average team to SB win) is not viable??

Fair enough, but he is capable of carrying a great defensive, special teams and good skilled players team to a Super Bowl. That is my opinion and only an opinion as Dalton has never had all of those things in any given season.

My point is many of us believe he is as good as Doug Williams, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco and many others with Super Bowl wins, but his team did not have a dominating defense and great special teams and a great offensive group around him come playoff time due to injuries in some cases, but more so talent.

You say argument, I say discussion and debate. It is definitely up for debate.

You’re right, I used the wrong term when I said arguing. My apologies. Debate is much more accurate.

And yes, I agree Dalton could MAYBE get there if all the pieces around him were great. The problem is that this organization really struggles to achieve that. A great defense, good special teams, great skill players all over the field, AND a top level coaching staff? That’s what I envision it takes.

Just kinda tired of watching us roll with a QB who would need more help than other QBs. He’s just not at the talent level of some of the guys that can consistently push their team for a run, while putting the team of their backs.

It’s so opinionated though. I just base these observations off when I watch all the other QBs in the other games, and I can see the difference in talent.

(01-18-2019, 04:31 PM)TSwigZ Wrote: Dalton will NEVER be a QB1 of a super bowl team I promise you that window has passed now it’d take a perfect storm for that to happen and it’s not going to happen. Quit with the delusions!! If not this off season next off season we’ll need to obtain his replacement. I wouldn’t say we’re fully rebuilding but fully transitioning for sure

Your opinion carries zero weight. Ken Anderson had zero playoff wins through his first 9 seasons.

The fact that Dalton has not done it yet does not prove that he can't. 

(01-19-2019, 12:43 PM)thillan Wrote: Just kinda tired of watching us roll with a QB who would need more help than other QBs. He’s just not at the talent level of some of the guys that can consistently push their team for a run, while putting the team of their backs.

Dalton doesn't need more help than most other QBs.

There are maybe 7 or 8 QBs who have proven they will be consistently better than Dalton.  Those QBs have been spread out over the last 18 years.  That means one every 3 years or so with probably a dozen teams looking for a QB every year.  The odds of finding one of those guys are pretty slim.  I think we are more likely to build a championship team around Dalton.

And even the best QBs struggle without talent around them.  Aaron Rodgers is 10-12-1 over the last two seasons.  Drew Brees had a losing record for 3 straight years ('14-'16).  Before going 12-4 this year Philip Rivers had a losing record over the previous 8 seasons (60-68).

(01-19-2019, 01:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Your opinion carries zero weight. Ken Anderson had zero playoff wins through his first 9 seasons.

The fact that Dalton has not done it yet does not prove that he can't. 

And don't forget Peyton Manning had 9 1 and done playoff seasons....

(01-17-2019, 06:44 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Flacco wins in the playoffs (10 wins, 5 losses), Dalton doesn't (0 wins, 4 losses). One is a SB caliber QB, the other isn't. It's all about winning, everything else (passer ratings, yards, blah, blah, blah) is of much less importance.

"Just win baby!" is probably one of the most sincere statements ever made by an NFL owner. Those who do it get the glory, those who don't don't. Those who do it deserve it, those who don't don't. Can't get anymore fair than that.

 

I'm pretty sure Kenny Anderson could give us a lecture on the subject of QB's not getting their deserved recognition.. 

(01-19-2019, 01:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Your opinion carries zero weight. Ken Anderson had zero playoff wins through his first 9 seasons.

The fact that Dalton has not done it yet does not prove that he can't. 

True but i want to keep swinging at getting an elite QB bc teams with elite QBs are always competitive even the packers who sucked this year wouldn’t surprise anyone if they won 10 games next year bc they have an elite QB where as ours is slightly above average

That is a lot of dough for Taylor to work with...

Some really good players in FA but i think we need to stick to O-line and LB'er where our biggest holes are.

(01-19-2019, 06:12 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That is a lot of dough for Taylor to work with...

Some really good players in FA but i think we need to stick to O-line and LB'er where our biggest holes are.

We don't have a TE under contract unless it is someone like Shreck.

Dennard is a free agent.  We have to either pay him or sign a free agent.  We have no one on the roster close to filling that hole.

(01-19-2019, 08:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We don't have a TE under contract unless it is someone like Shreck.

Dennard is a free agent.  We have to either pay him or sign a free agent.  We have no one on the roster close to filling that hole.

Even after signing Dennard and subtracting Glenn and Dalton's deals from the number in the thread title, there's still plenty left to work with.  Uzomah won't break the bank.  I'd probably re-up Hopkins, too.  

After that, the team is in a good position to get better utilizing FA.  I have very little doubt that they will.  It wouldn't hurt them at all to sign a couple of b-grade guys, and b-grade guys would be a hell of a lot better than what they have at several positions.

(01-19-2019, 05:52 PM)TSwigZ Wrote: True but i want to keep swinging at getting an elite QB bc teams with elite QBs are always competitive even the packers who sucked this year wouldn’t surprise anyone if they won 10 games next year bc they have an elite QB where as ours is slightly above average

I keep reading this over and over on here. The chance of landing an elite qb is rare. Brady was a 6th round draft pick and is by far the GOAT stat wise. Many 1st round QBs are busts. If you happen to get lucky with an Aaron Rogers pick (23 teams passed on him-Alex Smith was chosen with the first pick) then you have an athlete who sucks so much money out of you to keep him, that it’s difficult to surround him with the talent needed.

An above avg QB is a pretty good thing. Specially when his contact is team friendly so you can better yourself in other positions. Also, by stating he is an above average QB, that means at least 16 teams have tried and failed to put a better QB on the field. Just sayin.

(01-19-2019, 06:12 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That is a lot of dough for Taylor to work with...

Some really good players in FA but i think we need to stick to O-line and LB'er where our biggest holes are.

A part of me can agree baring what we witnessed with the success of KC and the Saints. Points on the board. But that also works both ways.

(01-19-2019, 08:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We don't have a TE under contract unless it is someone like Shreck.

Dennard is a free agent.  We have to either pay him or sign a free agent.  We have no one on the roster close to filling that hole.

Yes, have to bring back atleast a couple of the TE's and draft one in the 3rd round or so.

Very deep draft of talented TE's and they get hurt all the time.

Dennard might be much better under a new DC as well, i say bring him back if it isn't for a butt load of money.

(01-26-2019, 03:36 PM)samhain Wrote: Even after signing Dennard and subtracting Glenn and Dalton's deals from the number in the thread title, there's still plenty left to work with.  Uzomah won't break the bank.  I'd probably re-up Hopkins, too.  

After that, the team is in a good position to get better utilizing FA.  I have very little doubt that they will.  It wouldn't hurt them at all to sign a couple of b-grade guys, and b-grade guys would be a hell of a lot better than what they have at several positions.

True that, Seantrel Henderson and KJ Wright would be a great FA for us and we can afford it.

(01-26-2019, 06:11 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: A part of me can agree baring what we witnessed with the success of KC and the Saints. Points on the board. But that also works both ways.

Has to start in the trenches though yah know Harley...

Cannot put points on the board with a shitty O-line and cannot stop teams from putting points on the board with shitty Linebackers.

We sure oughta know this from the last few years.

I just don't see us jettising Dalton or Glenn just yet, now Burfict and Huber I have no problem with. I see that spotrac has our cap at 49,600,000 right now. If we let Burfict and Huber go it raises it to around 58 million to spend this year under the cap. I think with a new coach we will look into some Free Agents, this is my wish list:

Free Agents:

1) Bobbie Massie-RT- gives us a quick fix at a glaring weakness and allows us to go BPA in rd 1.

2) Jordan Hicks-MLB- anchors the LB position which is a major weakness.

3) Pierre Desir-CB- gives us a solid #4 Cb in nickel/dime packages

4) Kyle Emanuel-OLB- a solid depth addition on the outside

Re-Sign:

1) Darqueze Dennard- slot CB (6-7 million)

2) Tyler Kroft- #2 TE (1.5-2)

3) CJ Uzomeh #3 TE (1.5-2)

4) Trey Hopkins-C/G backup (1.5-2)

Sign Long Term:

1) Tyler Boyd

2) Joe Mixon