(01-22-2019, 11:04 AM)Wyche Wrote: Brady had a rough first half.....and threw two awful INTs that led to a 10 point swing.  Meanwhile, Belichick's gameplanning kept Mahommes & Co off of the field, and held them to under 50 yards in the 1st half.  I think that this season, with Brady showing signs of decline, Bill Belichick has answered the chicken/egg scenario in that debate.  Really, he answered it against ATL in the SB when he held that offense to 21 points.....the other 7 were a result of a Brady pick 6.

Bill answered that question when he went 10-6 with Matt Cassel, imo.  

(01-21-2019, 04:10 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: He barely got touched 

Except for that "roughing the passer" call.

By no means am I downplaying Brady's HOF talents but damn... they were coming for him and he had a nice pocket.

Would love to see that here!

Can you only imagine if Mixon were running behind that and not Burkhead?

This is all true and agree.

But most throws Brady makes there is not a chance of touching him because he wastes no time and throws it so quick that it is impossible to get him. 

 There are only a couple plays a game they really have to block for him. Seen it first hand at PBS several years back. You want to see him sacked so bad and we had the pass rush at the time to do it but he just throws in about two seconds or less. It is frustrating as fan to watch and bet it is way more frustrating on the players rushing him. 

Always thought it would set up for a corner to jump a route on timing at right time of game, but they rarely do and if you tried it more often he would just pump fake and make a fool of you. But on a game winning drive would think they would try once. 

Joey Bosa even said it last week, that it did not matter who was blocking him it was impossible to get to Brady because he throws it to quick. Said at one point he asked Brady to quit throwing so quickly. 

(01-22-2019, 12:37 PM)Whatever Wrote: Bill answered that question when he went 10-6 with Matt Cassel, imo.  

True dat. :andy:

(01-22-2019, 01:00 PM)Go Cards Wrote: This is all true and agree.

But most throws Brady makes there is not a chance of touching him because he wastes no time and throws it so quick that it is impossible to get him. 

 There are only a couple plays a game they really have to block for him. Seen it first hand at PBS several years back. You want to see him sacked so bad and we had the pass rush at the time to do it but he just throws in about two seconds or less. It is frustrating as fan to watch and bet it is way more frustrating on the players rushing him. 

Always thought it would set up for a corner to jump a route on timing at right time of game, but they rarely do and if you tried it more often he would just pump fake and make a fool of you. But on a game winning drive would think they would try once. 

Joey Bosa even said it last week, that it did not matter who was blocking him it was impossible to get to Brady because he throws it to quick. Said at one point he asked Brady to quit throwing so quickly. 

It's a combination of him being so experienced, he feels the pressure, he gets the ball out quickly, and the line blocks well on the slower developing plays.  

Funny, here in Cincy, getting the ball out quickly does nothing for your oline, apparently.

(01-22-2019, 12:37 PM)Whatever Wrote: Bill answered that question when he went 10-6 with Matt Cassel, imo.  

The year before they went undefeated n went to the super bowl. With cassel they missed the playoffs. Bill did nothing when he coached Cleveland. Brady is the goat if you think otherwise you are just a hater.

(01-22-2019, 02:23 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: The year before they went undefeated n went to the super bowl.  With cassel they missed the playoffs.  Bill did nothing when he coached Cleveland.   Brady is the goat if you think otherwise you are just a hater.

Except take them from 3-13 to the playoffs, and won their last playoff game.  The Browns were even considered a SB threat in '95 after that '94 season, just read an article about it this morning.

Brady is the best, so is his coach, it's a lethal combo.  They were still 10-6 with a QB that never pissed a drop anywhere before, or after.

(01-22-2019, 11:04 AM)Wyche Wrote: Brady had a rough first half.....and threw two awful INTs that led to a 10 point swing.  Meanwhile, Belichick's gameplanning kept Mahommes & Co off of the field, and held them to under 50 yards in the 1st half.  I think that this season, with Brady showing signs of decline, Bill Belichick has answered the chicken/egg scenario in that debate.  Really, he answered it against ATL in the SB when he held that offense to 21 points.....the other 7 were a result of a Brady pick 6.

I've always believed it was more Bill than Brady. Brady is a good guy, so no hate from me, but imagine Peyton on the Patriots. He'd have 5-6 rings easily. I'd love to see Bill keep going after Brady leaves, cuz I have a strong feeling the success won't leave with Brady. Which could label Brady a system QB (maybe this is why there's rumored tension between the two?).

(01-22-2019, 02:14 PM)Wyche Wrote: It's a combination of him being so experienced, he feels the pressure, he gets the ball out quickly, and the line blocks well on the slower developing plays.  

Funny, here in Cincy, getting the ball out quickly does nothing for your oline, apparently.

He throws before pressure has a chance to get to him most of the time and did so before he was this experienced. Not talking about his quick release, referring to how long after the ball is snapped until he throws ball. It is almost impossible to get to him.

Agree with most that he is the Goat. Do not hate the guy at all, but hate his gluttonous nature on SB rings and want him to retire soon. Like most will not be rooting for him to get more rings though. 

 Andy has quick release but does not throw as quick on regular basis. Although he seemed to start to this season but that was born out of necessity per O-line being horrid and not because he is Brady-esque. 

(01-22-2019, 03:16 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I've always believed it was more Bill than Brady. Brady is a good guy, so no hate from me, but imagine Peyton on the Patriots. He'd have 5-6 rings easily. I'd love to see Bill keep going after Brady leaves, cuz I have a strong feeling the success won't leave with Brady. Which could label Brady a system QB (maybe this is why there's rumored tension between the two?).

Brady has the intangibles that make him the GOAT.  I do agree that a more talented, from a physical standpoint, QB would succeed there too.  Especially a guy like Manning that had both.  Bill's system just keeps churning out the hits.  How many times have we seen a HOF QB falter in other systems after winning SBs?  Another big part of it is Brady's willingness to play for far cheaper than he is worth.  He understands the team concept.  It's a lethal combo.

(01-22-2019, 03:31 PM)Go Cards Wrote: He throws before pressure has a chance to get to him most of the time and did so before he was this experienced. Not talking about his quick release, referring to how long after the ball is snapped until he throws ball. It is almost impossible to get to him.

Agree with most that he is the Goat. Do not hate the guy at all, but hate his gluttonous nature on SB rings and want him to retire soon. Like most will not be rooting for him to get more rings though. 

 Andy has quick release but does not throw as quick on regular basis. Although he seemed to start to this season but that was born out of necessity per O-line being horrid and not because he is Brady-esque. 

Trust me, in no way am I even insinuating Andy is anywhere near the caliber of QB that Brady is! 

That said, there was an article a couple of years back that said Dalton was second only to Brady in terms of getting the ball out from the time of the snap until the ball was thrown.  That's what I'm referring to here.  It absolutely helps your line out when you can make the read pre snap and get the ball out that quickly.

(01-22-2019, 01:00 PM)Go Cards Wrote: This is all true and agree.

But most throws Brady makes there is not a chance of touching him because he wastes no time and throws it so quick that it is impossible to get him. 

 There are only a couple plays a game they really have to block for him. Seen it first hand at PBS several years back. You want to see him sacked so bad and we had the pass rush at the time to do it but he just throws in about two seconds or less. It is frustrating as fan to watch and bet it is way more frustrating on the players rushing him. 

Always thought it would set up for a corner to jump a route on timing at right time of game, but they rarely do and if you tried it more often he would just pump fake and make a fool of you. But on a game winning drive would think they would try once. 

Joey Bosa even said it last week, that it did not matter who was blocking him it was impossible to get to Brady because he throws it to quick. Said at one point he asked Brady to quit throwing so quickly. 

Yeah he does get it out quick  and it's tough to defend.

However I also have seen him just stand there flat footed and make reads.

It doesn't have to be one or the other.  It's both.

(01-22-2019, 12:37 PM)Whatever Wrote: Bill answered that question when he went 10-6 with Matt Cassel, imo.  

People bring this up way too often. Plenty of mediocre QB’s have had decent single seasons. Especially in a division as weak as the AFC East.

The success in NE has been 50/50 imo.

(01-22-2019, 09:25 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Yeah he does get it out quick  and it's tough to defend.

However I also have seen him just stand there flat footed and make reads.

It doesn't have to be one or the other.  It's both.

It certainly is in their case. Just a juggernaut.

(01-22-2019, 09:35 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: People bring this up way too often. Plenty of mediocre QB’s have had decent single seasons. Especially in a division as weak as the AFC East.

The success in NE has been 50/50 imo.

Bill has won games any time a backup comes in for any significant amount of time....Brady included. I'd go more 60/40.....and that, in no way conceivable, is a slight of Brady. Darth Hoodie is a genius. It's like Wyche and Boomer on horse steroids.

(01-22-2019, 02:23 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: The year before they went undefeated n went to the super bowl.  With cassel they missed the playoffs.  Bill did nothing when he coached Cleveland.   Brady is the goat if you think otherwise you are just a hater.

Bill is the greatest coach in NFL history.  Brady is the greatest QB in NFL history.  Either one would have rings without the other.  What they've done is unprecedented.  I think they said that in 17 years with Brady as the starter, the Pats have made the AFCCG 13 times.  Made the SB 9 times in that span.  Won the SB 5 times, with a possible 6th in a couple of weeks.  That level of domination in any sport is insane, and isn't possible without both, plus a ton of other great players.

(01-22-2019, 10:01 PM)Wyche Wrote: Bill has won games any time a backup comes in for any significant amount of time....Brady included. I'd go more 60/40.....and that, in no way conceivable, is a slight of Brady. Darth Hoodie is a genius. It's like Wyche and Boomer on horse steroids.

Sam and Boomer, unfortunately, didn't get to keep their team together.

Sam had the one thing.  It was a magnificent thing, without a doubt.  But it was one thing.

Bill has everything.  Sam's thing and all the other things too.  And things no one else has.  It is very rare, ridiculously rare, that anybody throws something at him to which he has no answer.

The best way to beat them is to put constant pressure on Brady.  Occasionally, on a given day, someone will do it.  But it's gonna take a monster effort for sixty minutes to do it.  That is a lot to ask.

And as much of an offensive genius as Bill is, he's that much of a defensive whiz too.  This is what elevates him.   This is why he's the greatest ever.

(01-22-2019, 10:19 PM)McC Wrote: Sam and Boomer, unfortunately, didn't get to keep their team together.

Sam had the one thing.  It was a magnificent thing, without a doubt.  But it was one thing.

Bill has everything.  Sam's thing and all the other things too.  And things no one else has.  It is very rare, ridiculously rare, that anybody throws something at him to which he has no answer.

The best way to beat them is to put constant pressure on Brady.  Occasionally, on a given day, someone will do it.  But it's gonna take a monster effort for sixty minutes to do it.  That is a lot to ask.

And as much of an offensive genius as Bill is, he's that much of a defensive whiz too.  This is what elevates him.   This is why he's the greatest ever.

Yep

I think two of the things that separate them from all others is BB's ability to take away the other teams best weapon without becoming vulnerable elsewhere and maintain it for the bulk of the game.

And totally reinvent themselves on offense as necessary and barely skip a beat !

As someone else said they'd have rings apart but together they break all the rules.

(01-22-2019, 10:01 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Bill has won games any time a backup comes in for any significant amount of time....Brady included. I'd go more 60/40.....and that, in no way conceivable, is a slight of Brady. Darth Hoodie is a genius. It's like Wyche and Boomer on horse steroids.

You’re talking about a REALLY small sample size when it comes to Belichick winning with other QB’s. Basically 2008 with Cassel, and 4 games the year Brady was suspended.

(01-22-2019, 11:42 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You’re talking about a REALLY small sample size when it comes to Belichick winning with other QB’s. Basically 2008 with Cassel, and 4 games the year Brady was suspended.

Not really.  Don't forget he had 4 losing seasons in his 5 years in Cleveland.  Let's also not forget that Kraft was considering canning him when Brady took over and turned the season around in 2001.  I'm not saying he is a terrible coach, but it's all about Brady.

(01-23-2019, 12:02 AM)jfkbengals Wrote: Not really.  Don't forget he had 4 losing seasons in his 5 years in Cleveland.  Let's also not forget that Kraft was considering canning him when Brady took over and turned the season around in 2001.  I'm not saying he is a terrible coach, but it's all about Brady.

I think that's stretching things a little.

Kraft hired Belichick in 2000 and gave him virtually 100% control of the team. Brady took over in the late part of game 2 in the 2001 season. It's not like they were 1-5 and the season was going down the tubes !

I doubt Kraft was going to hire a HC and give him total control over everything and can him 18 games in.

(01-23-2019, 12:25 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I think that's stretching things a little.

Kraft hired Belichick in 2000 and gave him virtually 100% control of the team. Brady took over in the late part of game 2 in the 2001 season. It's not like they were 1-5 and the season was going down the tubes !

I doubt Kraft was going to hire a HC and give him total control over everything and can him 18 games in.

Also, fun fact, who was the last coach to win a playoff game in Cleveland?

Who was Bill Parcells' DC on those Super Bowl teams?

I think people are selling the Hood short.