I kind of remember when this happened as it wasn't that long ago, but just vaguely. I have a couple of episodes left out of the seven available. I'm not sure if it ends at seven or if shows are still airing.

Anyway I think this is pretty good. The lives of Tilly and her husband are just unbearably bleak looking. Especially in winter. Their existence is just depressing. Tilly's husband is by far the most sympathetic character. As portrayed at least his IQ would be double digits and not begin with a nine. Dull as it seems, he appears quite content with his life when his wife is decent to him. For me, watching this guy is as interesting as the prison escape story.

Tilly is a somewhat sympathetic person. She is also not very intelligent, often not very pleasant, and malleable. In the opening scene which is post escape, her biggest concern is if she's going to lose her job. I found it hard to believe that she was really allowed to dress as she did with her boobs halfway out of her shirt. Unattractive as she is, it's hard to believe a prison would allow that. At one point a guard does tell her to cover herself up.

I find it interesting that in prison escape movies/shows we find ourselves rooting for the prisoners who are generally despicable people. The two escapees are no different. Among other things Matt kidnapped, murdered and dismembered his former boss. Sweat and a couple of his pals shot a cop fifteen times during the commission of a robbery. Sweat is a more likable guy, but you are sitting there rooting for these miserable people to escape. I imagine it's because it's already happened so it's not like we are hoping two current murderers escape, and I know how it ends so....

OK I seem to just be meandering along here so I think it's good and worth a watch.

After watching the last two episodes I really don't feel sympathetic toward anyone except Lyle. In the end Tilly really is just an awful person. In episode six they showed you the crimes of Matt and Sweat. They really did a good job humanizing Sweat's victim, a police officer. It was brutal and merciless.

Thanks for mentioning the show.  I have Showtime but had not noticed it until you posted here and so I binge watched it. I very much enjoyed it.  It had kind of a Fargo feel to it but maybe that was because of the accents of Tilly and Lyle as well as the setting.  

I'm not sure how much of the actual events were sensationalized for the show but if a lot it was true it seemed like there were many, many failures from multiple people that allowed the escape to happen.  Most notably the fact that a female prison employee in a sewing shop was permitted to go in closed, unmonitored rooms for lengthy periods of time completely unsupervised with male inmates.  That just seems like an obvious recipe for trouble not only for the security of the prison but the safety of the employee.

I agree Lyle is the only one I could feel sorry for.  I don't know if in real life he is really that disadvantaged or if again it was sensationalized for TV.  He is the only person involved, well aside from her son, that in the end deserved better.  There were times I wanted to understand Tilly and her motivation better.  In the last episode when the investigator asks Tilly if her mom was still around Tilly just made a face and it wasn't answered. So I wonder what her back story was well before her first marriage and all of that.  It seems there is some psychological reason that made her constantly seek out the attention of men no matter how destructive it was. It was obvious, at least as portrayed in the show, that she suffered significant issues with self-esteem, a strong desire to be needed/wanted but at the same time was manipulative as well.  I'd say she was also not very intelligent and maybe within borderline personality disorder range.  

Again, good show.  Thanks for bringing it up. I don't binge watch often and this one got me hooked.

We really enjoyed the show too. I was just keeping my mouth shut, because I knew how it ended.

(01-31-2019, 07:45 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: We really enjoyed the show too.  I was just keeping my mouth shut, because I knew how it ended.  

I knew how it ended before I even watched the show because it was all over the news.  I was going to make a silly joke about it being an escape from the actual name of the prison, Clinton Correctional Facility, but don't want to end up in P&R.

(01-31-2019, 07:20 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: Thanks for mentioning the show.  I have Showtime but had not noticed it until you posted here and so I binge watched it. I very much enjoyed it.  It had kind of a Fargo feel to it but maybe that was because of the accents of Tilly and Lyle as well as the setting.  

I'm not sure how much of the actual events were sensationalized for the show but if a lot it was true it seemed like there were many, many failures from multiple people that allowed the escape to happen.  Most notably the fact that a female prison employee in a sewing shop was permitted to go in closed, unmonitored rooms for lengthy periods of time completely unsupervised with male inmates.  That just seems like an obvious recipe for trouble not only for the security of the prison but the safety of the employee.

I agree Lyle is the only one I could feel sorry for.  I don't know if in real life he is really that disadvantaged or if again it was sensationalized for TV.  He is the only person involved, well aside from her son, that in the end deserved better.  There were times I wanted to understand Tilly and her motivation better.  In the last episode when the investigator asks Tilly if her mom was still around Tilly just made a face and it wasn't answered. So I wonder what her back story was well before her first marriage and all of that.  It seems there is some psychological reason that made her constantly seek out the attention of men no matter how destructive it was. It was obvious, at least as portrayed in the show, that she suffered significant issues with self-esteem, a strong desire to be needed/wanted but at the same time was manipulative as well.  I'd say she was also not very intelligent and maybe within borderline personality disorder range.  

Again, good show.  Thanks for bringing it up. I don't binge watch often and this one got me hooked.

I think you summed it up well. As you commented, I’m sure the prison has been put through the wringer security wise. I still find it hard to believe she was allowed to wear the blouses she wore.

Tilly started losing any compassion from me when she pulled that crap with her kid telling him his father was no longer his father. Lyle went along with it so he wasn’t perfect either, but if he was as portrayed she would have manipulated him there as well.

(01-31-2019, 08:19 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I think you summed it up well. As you commented, I’m sure the prison has been put through the wringer security wise. I still find it hard to believe she was allowed to wear the blouses she wore.

Tilly started losing any compassion from me when she pulled that crap with her kid telling him his father was no longer his father. Lyle went along with it so he wasn’t perfect either, but if he was as portrayed she would have manipulated him there as well.

Personally, I think the parallel that the writers were trying to make is that some of the people that work in correctional facilities aren't much better than those who are inside.

(01-31-2019, 08:28 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Personally, I think the parallel that the writers were trying to make is that some of the people that work in correctional facilities aren't much better than those who are inside.

Oh I’m sure there are plenty that are just barely on the right side of the bars.

(01-31-2019, 08:19 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I think you summed it up well. As you commented, I’m sure the prison has been put through the wringer security wise. I still find it hard to believe she was allowed to wear the blouses she wore.

Tilly started losing any compassion from me when she pulled that crap with her kid telling him his father was no longer his father. Lyle went along with it so he wasn’t perfect either, but if he was as portrayed she would have manipulated him there as well.

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As for Tilly and Lyle there wasn't a lot in the show that showed how and why they first started hooking up.  Her back story in the show is her working at at a factory with her husband. Then Lyle seems to have some romantic interest with her and they agree to meet at lunch to have sex. Then she gets caught and talks him into getting beat up by her soon to be ex-husband so she can get custody of her kid.  It doesn't show how Lyle got involved with her in the first place. Did she seduce Lyle or did he seduce her?  Obviously he knew she was married so he wasn't innocent in that regard. I guess maybe a better question is, what is Lyle's back story?

I looked it up and there is no plan for a season 2 obviously since the primary people involved are dead or in prison, but if there was I bet they could make one based on him and his perspective alone. I suppose it would have to be a prequel of sorts. Then again I would not be a bit surprised if Joyce tries to sell her story once she gets out of prison.

(01-31-2019, 08:28 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Personally, I think the parallel that the writers were trying to make is that some of the people that work in correctional facilities aren't much better than those who are inside.

Rita Hayworth and Shawshank Redemption but instead of fiction it actually happened to some extent. Corrupt guards/staff, manipulative prisoners with too much time on their hands and lack of supervision.

(01-31-2019, 09:29 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: Rita Hayworth and Shawshank Redemption but instead of fiction it actually happened to some extent.  Corrupt guards/staff, manipulative prisoners with too much time on their hands and lack of supervision.

That is a pretty good comparison, perhaps a model the writers might have used for their storyline.

(01-31-2019, 09:42 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That is a pretty good comparison, perhaps a model the writers might have used for their storyline.

Although based on a true story I think the producers maybe sampled a bit from both Shawshank Redemption and Fargo.  To me the show has a lot of things that reminded me of both.  Sadly it is a true story that involves lives that have been ruined. Fortunately the ones that escaped were dealt with, one is dead and the other will never step out of prison walls again. The weird thing is David Sweat was ordered to pay $79,841 in restitution for damages done during his escape. I seriously doubt he will ever be able to pay that back on prison wages.

Back on topic, Benicio Del Toro was great in his portrayal of Richard Matt. He's one of my favorite actors that doesn't get enough appreciation.