In general, we have a soft offensive line. I saw plenty of times where Mixon got outside and we had a lineman leading and instead of levelling the defender, they'd just kind of give them a half shove.

(02-08-2019, 02:36 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I do share the concern that he seems to be hiring a lot of his friends. I won't say it's a full red flag, but it's maybe an orange one.

Del Rio and some of the other experienced guys turning us down is big too.

who says he didn't turn down JDR?  This is what happens everyone assumes something to be true before it happens and ZT gets the blame for everything.  The prime example is the threads about ZT after the Superbowl.  Nothing better than watch the internet pundits and complainers downgrading him for the Superbowl when we haven't won a playoff game in over 20 years?  

(02-08-2019, 02:41 PM)Okeana Wrote: who says he didn't turn down JDR?  This is what happens everyone assumes something to be true before it happens and ZT gets the blame for everything.  

Everything I have read says that Taylor is getting to make the call on these coaches.  If that is true then JDR and Capers would not have been at the top of the list if Taylor did not want them.

(02-08-2019, 02:40 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: In general, we have a soft offensive line. I saw plenty of times where Mixon got outside and we had a lineman leading and instead of levelling the defender, they'd just kind of give them a half shove.

Westermann can fix some of this issue and drafting a RT.  I think Glenn is still serviceable and you're not going to find a better LT in this FA class.  Price is still a huge question mark for me, but that mofo better be snapping that ball into his couch the entire offseason at least 6 hours a day because it's pretty ridiculous. 

(02-08-2019, 02:35 PM)Okeana Wrote: So what's wrong with that? 

Taylor can't be making specific hires to fit his specific master plan if he has no idea what he is going to do.

If he is hiring the guys who will best do it "his way" then he needs to first decide what "his way" is.

(02-08-2019, 02:46 PM)Okeana Wrote: Westermann can fix some of this issue and drafting a RT.  I think Glenn is still serviceable and you're not going to find a better LT in this FA class.  Price is still a huge question mark for me, but that mofo better be snapping that ball into his couch the entire offseason at least 6 hours a day because it's pretty ridiculous. 

I'd give Price another season ,and if he hasn't improved by the end of 2019 move him over to guard.  I know centers need as many snaps as possible, but if it starts costing us games you can only keep so long of a leash.

(02-08-2019, 02:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Everything I have read says that Taylor is getting to make the call on these coaches.  If that is true then JDR and Capers would not have been at the top of the list if Taylor did not want them.

If Pleasant comes in and we become a top 5 defense then everyone on these boards will be talking about how brilliant ZT was.  This could also be a case where Duke Tobin gave him a list of potential guys and after talking with them it just didn't Gel.  Regardless I think its time to evaluate guy's he is interviewing and their potential.

(02-08-2019, 02:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Everything I have read says that Taylor is getting to make the call on these coaches.  If that is true then JDR and Capers would not have been at the top of the list if Taylor did not want them.

He may have guys on a shortlist of candidates he'd like to talk to thinking that they may be a good fit, but upon actually talking to them they are clearly not the best fit for what he wants to do. That's the whole purpose of the interview process.   

We simply don't know why exactly JDR turned down the opportunity. It could very well be as simple as him having a change of heart and not wanting to get back into the game yet.

And I couldn't be bothered to care about Capers turning us down. Big whoop.

(02-08-2019, 02:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Taylor can't be making specific hires to fit his specific master plan if he has no idea what he is going to do.

If he is hiring the guys who will best do it "his way" then he needs to first decide what "his way" is.

I think it makes sense with the lack of time he has to prepare this offseason to go with guys you have worked with for now.  What if he has a zero win season is that really so terrible?  I would rather a guy get a chance at a top tier quarterback next year and hire new coordinators than have a mediocre season this year.  Like it or not we are in rebuild mode unless he can pull a rabbit out of a hat next year and that requires a lot of free agent signings.  The end of the day we're still the Bengals.

(02-08-2019, 02:57 PM)Okeana Wrote: What if he has a zero win season is that really so terrible?  

Yes. That would be the worst.  It would mean that our new coach is worse than Marvin.

(02-08-2019, 02:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually he doesn't seem to have a very specific plan at all.  Supposedly he does not even know if he will run a 4-3 or a 3-4 base defense.

Dehner, or one of the guys, mentioned he doesn't want to be tied to one specific base defense or way of doing things, it about a specific mentality he wants. The rumor is that a lot of these older established coordinators have their base D they want to run and won't move off it and that is a problem for him. 

(02-08-2019, 03:09 PM)Au165 Wrote: Dehner, or one of the guys, mentioned he doesn't want to be tied to one specific base defense or way of doing things, it about a specific mentality he wants. The rumor is that a lot of these older established coordinators have their base D they want to run and won't move off it and that is a problem for him. 

So do we draft guys to play a 4-3 or a 3-4?

It is not as easy to just mix-and-match as some people claim.

(02-08-2019, 09:57 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Thats good and all, but you know that we now live in a time and age where its a must to be outraged over every little thing.

I like how people say this without realizing back in the "good ol' days when no one got offended" putting a toilet or a married couple sleeping in the same bed on TV or showing Elvis' swiveling hips was considered dangerously scandalous.


Ahhh, back in the old days when no one got offended!  Anyways, if this guy can give us a better o-line I don't care how many dildos the weirdo buys and then gives to men.

(02-08-2019, 03:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So do we draft guys to play a 4-3 or a 3-4?

It is not as easy to just mix-and-match as some people claim.

As Tobin said at senior bowl scheme doesn't matter as much, he wants to draft versatile guys that can play football. 

I disagree, scheme versatility for most players isn't as difficult as people pretend it is. Especially when you are talking base defenses, now man vs zone is but most teams mix both in so it's not horrible. A 3-4 under/over is basically just a 4-3. You can even play the techniques similar to a 4-3 for the D line, it would just make it more of a wide alignment compared to a normal 3-4. Deciding if it's a one gap scheme or two gap is probably going to be dictated by the personnel we have year one most likely anyways. 

(02-08-2019, 09:57 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Thats good and all, but you know that we now live in a time and age where its a must to be outraged over every little thing.

(02-08-2019, 11:52 AM)McC Wrote: I know.  Sickening, ain't it?

Ah yes, the "good old days" when no one cared if homosexuals could kiss on TV, or if song lyrics contained cure words, or if people could have visible tattoos at the job, or if smoking was prohibited where people were eating.

(02-08-2019, 03:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Ah yes, the "good old days" when no one cared if homosexuals could kiss on TV, or if song lyrics contained cure words, or if people could have visible tattoos at the job, or if smoking was prohibited where people were eating.

The bathroom in the Brady Bunch house didn't even have a toilet.  Lucy and Ricky slept in separate beds (even though the actual actors were married in real life), the first Mamas & Papas album also had a scandalous toilet censored for our tender sensibilities.  Sesame Street received a backlash for showing people of different races (and monsters?) living in the same neighborhood.

Yes, people used to be SO reasonable and totally didn't get upset about stupid stuff.  No way! 


EDIT - I remember when I was growing up and people were going completely bananas over how dangerous The Simpsons, Beavis & Butthead, and Mortal Kombat were for our society. But hey, we're way too uptight now! Imagine seeing a cartoon character say "ass" or something like that.

The whole concept of scheme independence sounds good, but fielding a roster based around that is tough...especially when our Linebackers are terrible.

If we're going 3-4, we need to add atleast 3 new LB's.

Now some people might say, just play Lawson at LB and use them like a DE in the 4-3. Well...that's a 4-3 then!

(02-06-2019, 10:00 PM)Older Than You Too Wrote: Didn't see a thread about this, thoughts?

Dude had some of the worst O Lines in Miami.

I like that he is a former Marine and can be an asshole. I don't want anymore meh coaches.

Here is to hoping he turns it around here and the Miami thing just goes away cause of it.

Think he will definately be better than PA.

(02-08-2019, 05:04 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The whole concept of scheme independence sounds good, but fielding a roster based around that is tough...especially when our Linebackers are terrible.

If we're going 3-4, we need to add atleast 3 new LB's.

Now some people might say, just play Lawson at LB and use them like a DE in the 4-3. Well...that's a 4-3 then!

Not really. The difference between a 3-4 OLB and a 4-3 DE is seriously negligible especially for the weak side backer who's the rush LB. They move him around but he is basically a standing rusher that comes almost every play. Then the opposite side OLB is the SAM and he will come a decent amount but will also be asked to drop into coverage at times, usually in Zone. 

In terms of a comparison we have talked a lot about lately let's use Dante Fowler. A 4-3 DE in JAX he was a rush OLB in Wade Phillips 3-4 defense. The biggest difference between the 3-4 and 4-3 is gap responsibility and the alignment of the 3 down linemen. Another thing with the 3-4 is some people like that edge guy standing up because they think he is more agile playing from a two point and can move laterally better it's all preference really.

(02-08-2019, 03:19 PM)Au165 Wrote: As Tobin said at senior bowl scheme doesn't matter as much, he wants to draft versatile guys that can play football. 

I disagree, scheme versatility for most players isn't as difficult as people pretend it is. Especially when you are talking base defenses, now man vs zone is but most teams mix both in so it's not horrible. A 3-4 under/over is basically just a 4-3. You can even play the techniques similar to a 4-3 for the D line, it would just make it more of a wide alignment compared to a normal 3-4. Deciding if it's a one gap scheme or two gap is probably going to be dictated by the personnel we have year one most likely anyways. 

Yea gap responsibility is alot more important than alignment.