(02-12-2019, 12:14 PM)ochocincos Wrote: What makes you think Dwayne Haskins is a great prospect but Murray "won't go round 1, period"?
Is it just the height/size?

Both only started one year.
Haskins - 70% completion, 4939 yards, 54 total TDs, 8 INTs
Murray - 69% completion, 5362 yards, 54 total TDs, 7 INTs

It's not a talent issue.talent wise he's a top 15 pick. It's a couple things.  First his height/size. It's absolute bull he measured in at 5"10 7/8ths. I've stood next to him in barely 5"11 and he's at least 2-3 inches shorter than me. I expect a 5"8 or so. His size at about 170 is alarming bc u want Aaron Donald to hit him? He'd break in half. 2. The baseball thing. Many people I speak to say the reports about him going rd1 are talent based, not taking into account the baseball decision. They also don't believe regardless of what he says he won't go back to baseball if he doesn't like the coach/tram that drafted him. They believe baseball is still a major thing in his life.

(02-13-2019, 10:48 PM)Jpoore Wrote: It's not a talent issue.talent wise he's a top 15 pick. It's a couple things.  First his height/size. It's absolute bull he measured in at 5"10 7/8ths. I've stood next to him in barely 5"11 and he's at least 2-3 inches shorter than me. I expect a 5"8 or so. His size at about 170 is alarming bc u want Aaron Donald to hit him? He'd break in half. 2. The baseball thing. Many people I speak to say the reports about him going rd1 are talent based, not taking into account the baseball decision. They also don't believe regardless of what he says he won't go back to baseball if he doesn't like the coach/tram that drafted him. They believe baseball is still a major thing in his life.

I believe the expected size he'll measure at at the Combine will be around 5'9", 195 lbs.
As for the baseball thing, that's really up to the teams to decide if they believe his statement or not regarding his commitment to football.
I don't think you're wrong about him potentially going back to baseball if he doesn't like the team that drafted him, but that's what the entire purpose of the next few months is for. He'll get to interview with any team that wants to and he can be very open with them about whether he'd want to play there or not.

(02-14-2019, 10:50 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I believe the expected size he'll measure at at the Combine will be around 5'9", 195 lbs.
As for the baseball thing, that's really up to the teams to decide if they believe his statement or not regarding his commitment to football.
I don't think you're wrong about him potentially going back to baseball if he doesn't like the team that drafted him, but that's what the entire purpose of the next few months is for. He'll get to interview with any team that wants to and he can be very open with them about whether he'd want to play there or not.

Exactly, As I have said for months he will let teams know full well up front his interest in playing there. The first question out of every teams mouth will be "If we draft you how do we know you won't go back to baseball?" and then it'll be up to them to determine if he is being honest like they do with all questions they ask during the interviews. 

Whatever his abilities may be, I just feel like the way he's doing all this says a lot about him and none of it is good. Not sure if that's what you want for the face of your franchise. He just feels like a real me first kinda guy who will always put his own interests first. You're not just drafting a player. You're drafting a person, a personality, a character type too. Look at me--I'm bigger than the system. I might be completely wrong but I don't like the vibe coming off him at all.

(02-14-2019, 11:31 AM)McC Wrote: Whatever his abilities may be, I just feel like the way he's doing all this says a lot about him and none of it is good.  Not sure if that's what you want for the face of your franchise.  He just feels like a real me first kinda guy who will always put his own interests first.  You're not just drafting a player. You're drafting a person, a personality, a character type too.  Look at me--I'm bigger than the system.  I might be completely wrong but I don't like the vibe coming off him at all.

...worked okay for John Elway, Bo Jackson and Eli Manning. They all made their demands public at the least Murray hasn't said anything publicly about being willing or not willing to play for specific teams.

(02-14-2019, 11:31 AM)McC Wrote: Whatever his abilities may be, I just feel like the way he's doing all this says a lot about him and none of it is good.  Not sure if that's what you want for the face of your franchise.  He just feels like a real me first kinda guy who will always put his own interests first.  You're not just drafting a player. You're drafting a person, a personality, a character type too.  Look at me--I'm bigger than the system.  I might be completely wrong but I don't like the vibe coming off him at all.

I don't really see the difference in what Murray is doing vs what a Free Agent does when he leverages multiple team offers to try to get the highest FA deal. It may seem selfish to some extent, but ultimately, this is a person's livelihood, so it's reasonable to expect they try to get the best deal possible for them (financial or otherwise).

(02-14-2019, 01:28 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't really see the difference in what Murray is doing vs what a Free Agent does when he leverages multiple team offers to try to get the highest FA deal. It may seem selfish to some extent, but ultimately, this is a person's livelihood, so it's reasonable to expect they try to get the best deal possible for them (financial or otherwise).

People tend to not look fondly at people who disrupt established systems. The issue here though is where else in the world do we draft people into their careers giving the person being hired no say in who they work for (I actually think doctors may have something similar but that's it)? If I was the top lawyer in coming out of Harvard I can go to the best firm to set myself up for success, but in pro sports we make those people go to the worst situations for their success. People forget once upon a time you didn't even get a say in free agency you were drafted and they owned you until they were done with you, no matter how horrible the organization was.

In reality people just accept it as the status quo because the NFL has a monopoly and all the leverage. It's unfortunate people decry those who do have leverage and may wish to exercise it in a system they are already being wage fixed in out of the gate. The system is actually built to screw the employees but similar to the whole pay college athletes thing people just want the product without too much fuss.

(02-14-2019, 01:28 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't really see the difference in what Murray is doing vs what a Free Agent does when he leverages multiple team offers to try to get the highest FA deal. It may seem selfish to some extent, but ultimately, this is a person's livelihood, so it's reasonable to expect they try to get the best deal possible for them (financial or otherwise).

He's not a FA.  A FA has already played in the league.  Wouldn't you say that's a big difference?

And I'm pretty sure a first round draft pick will be in pretty good shape financially no matter where they go.

You cannot let the inmates run the asylum.

(02-14-2019, 05:46 PM)McC Wrote: He's not a FA.  A FA has already played in the league.  Wouldn't you say that's a big difference?

And I'm pretty sure a first round draft pick will be in pretty good shape financially no matter where they go.

You cannot let the inmates run the asylum.

I look at it in a different way, one from a business standpoint. In any other industry, entry level can dictate where they want to go and negotiate how much they get, just like a veteran. So it's up to the companies to determine how much they want that individual and offer a more lucrative deal or not. 

When it comes to the NFL specifically, most players don't have the luxury of another professional sport as a fallback option, so they accept whatever the process is (being drafted and go wherever they get drafted to). In the case of guys like Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, etc. they do have that luxury, so I don't see any issue with them trying to gain leverage in their best interest.

And I think it's unfair to say "I'm pretty sure a first round pick will be in a pretty good shape financially no matter where they go." There's more to life than just how much you make. What's the company culture like, what's the city like, what's the cost of living, what's the weather like, how successful is the organization, etc.

(02-08-2019, 04:17 PM)McC Wrote: Really?  I'm a bit surprised to hear this.

I wasn't, he is better than Goff and can run a system like that.

(02-08-2019, 04:34 PM)Big Boss Wrote: ???

It's not your fault??? I'm not getting you?

(02-13-2019, 08:41 AM)Big Boss Wrote: Not that it's worth much, but Paul Dehner Jr. was on Mo Egger's show yesterday and he doesn't think Murray would schematically fit the type of offense Zac Taylor is looking to create.

That's wrong already. Zac wants to run a mixed system and that's what Murray ran at OU.
Murray can do Vertical, move around to buy time and screens/dump offs as well as the next guy.

Couple interesting things in FMIA this morning. Murray threw from the pocket 89% of the time this year, that makes his 5 batted passes this year even more impressive.Murray is said to run a 4.39 40...that would make him the fastest QB in the NFL.

I am coming more and more around to Murray at 11, but I m beginning to think he goes in the top 5.

(02-18-2019, 09:52 AM)Au165 Wrote: Couple interesting things in FMIA this morning. Murray threw from the pocket 89% of the time this year, that makes his 5 batted passes this year even more impressive.Murray is said to run a 4.39 40...that would make him the fastest QB in the NFL.

I am coming more and more around to Murray at 11, but I m beginning to think he goes in the top 5.

I've seen a lot of people predicting the Cardinals either taking him first and trading Rosen or trading out of #1 so someone else can take Murray first.

(02-18-2019, 11:12 AM)McC Wrote: I've seen a lot of people predicting the Cardinals either taking him first and trading Rosen or trading out of #1 so someone else can take Murray first.

Yea, I have seen it not sure I believe it yet only because Kingsbury doubled down on Rosen last week. I have held all along they only take Murray if they can get a nice return on Rosen, otherwise I do think they trade back if there are takers. If you are taking Murray at 1 you have to be someone who can handle the heat from fans and media because there will be plenty. The GM basically has to be Teflon in my mind. 

(02-18-2019, 11:16 AM)Au165 Wrote: Yea, I have seen it not sure I believe it yet only because Kingsbury doubled down on Rosen last week. I have held all along they only take Murray if they can get a nice return on Rosen, otherwise I do think they trade back if there are takers. If you are taking Murray at 1 you have to be someone who can handle the heat from fans and media because there will be plenty. The GM basically has to be Teflon in my mind. 

Comes down to combine and pro day for him, wouldn't you say?

In the draft, QB's make teams lose all sense of reason and do things they would never do for other positions.

(02-18-2019, 01:01 PM)McC Wrote: Comes down to combine and pro day for him, wouldn't you say?

In the draft, QB's make teams lose all sense of reason and do things they would never do for other positions.

I think combine helps because if he runs a 40 in the 4.3 some teams will lose their minds. The tape is the tape for me. He is accurate, really accurate. He has a plus arm size aside. The fact he stayed in the pocket as much as he did kind of matches to what I have seen and that is he moves in the pocket with eyes down field to make throws. Scrambling to throw is how you stay in this league a long time, see Russell Wilson. 

I could see the Bengals taking Murray at 11th position and driving the fan base nuts.

My Murray update:

I'm still not interested.

Murray will not go rd1. Period. End of story. Take that to the bank.

Yet another reason he won't go rd1. The stack against him continues to add up... His receivers won't be there all of a sudden he's not throwing.


Speaking to reporters tonight, Kyler Murray said he's not sure if he'll throw at the NFL Combine next week. Murray also said his height is 5′10″ and he believes he's faster than his 4.30 40 time from 2-3 years ago

(02-19-2019, 01:39 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Yet another reason he won't go rd1. The stack against him continues to add up... His receivers won't be there all of a sudden he's not throwing.


Speaking to reporters tonight, Kyler Murray said he's not sure if he'll throw at the NFL Combine next week. Murray also said his height is 5′10″ and he believes he's faster than his 4.30 40 time from 2-3 years ago

I'm like 99% this dude is going in the 1st, hell if Lamar Jackson can go in the first then Murray is going in round 1. 

Yea hes a couple inches shorter but he has thrown behind a big Oline and done fine, has a good arm, good accuracy, and is probably gonna run a 4.3-4.4 40. 

I doubt we take him but if we did I would be fine with it.