(02-12-2019, 06:13 PM)Okeana Wrote: oh here we go lmao!  wiki a dude and know his life story.

(02-12-2019, 06:17 PM)Okeana Wrote: What someone did when they were a teenager should not be held over their head when their a grown man who hasn't repeated that behavior.  This guy grew up in a different culture and environment that lead him to make a bad decision.  I remember growing up and the whole world was about people redeeming themselves and second chances... Not today.

I'm not saying he doesn't deserve a chance to play in the NFL or that his incident should define him forever, but it hasn't even been three years since this incident.  That isn't enough time to determine if this was simply a horrible mistake that was completely out of character or a pattern of behavior.

Every team in the NFL rolls the dice on guys with character flags.  I was in support of us giving Mixon a shot.  However, taking two guys that have been caught on video beating up women in such a close time span in today's political climate is going to be a PR disaster.  We are already the NFL's whipping boy for thugs and criminals, rightly or wrongly.  The Simmons video is way worse than the Mixon video, and they are going to get played side by side if we draft him and both will get drug up again and again if/when either one of them screws up.  Is that really fair to either?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mmHJR3x_pCY

(02-12-2019, 02:29 PM)Au165 Wrote: We sure could have used taking Jaylon Smith and redshirting him right about now.

We could have.

But we would have had to take Jaylon Smith over WJIII in that scenario.

And have WJIII be a Steeler.

(02-12-2019, 08:11 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: We could have.

But we would have had to take Jaylon Smith over WJIII in that scenario.

And have WJIII be a Steeler.

My point was the redshirt year was worth the wait.

(02-12-2019, 04:10 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Yeah, but Tyron Smith didn't come in injured.

I'm not against taking the right guy who has to red shirt. I am against drafting for the future by taking a injured guy when there are guys there on the board who would start this year. Too many holes on this team.

The point is are the guys that are there better than Simmons or even? I think not. Simmons would be a top 5 pick if not for the abuse issue. Even if they're hurt next year their production over a 10 year period is estimated to be substantially better than someone who is healthy this year, u take them.

If the Bengals didn't have sooooo many needs, I could see taking him in the 2nd. But with the new coaching staff and the possibility of switching to a 3-4, we need guys in rounds 1-3 that can play now.

(02-12-2019, 08:07 PM)Whatever Wrote: I'm not saying he doesn't deserve a chance to play in the NFL or that his incident should define him forever, but it hasn't even been three years since this incident.  That isn't enough time to determine if this was simply a horrible mistake that was completely out of character or a pattern of behavior.

Every team in the NFL rolls the dice on guys with character flags.  I was in support of us giving Mixon a shot.  However, taking two guys that have been caught on video beating up women in such a close time span in today's political climate is going to be a PR disaster.  We are already the NFL's whipping boy for thugs and criminals, rightly or wrongly.  The Simmons video is way worse than the Mixon video, and they are going to get played side by side if we draft him and both will get drug up again and again if/when either one of them screws up.  Is that really fair to either?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mmHJR3x_pCY

That's not really your call to make. It might not be enough time for you, but it might be enough for someone else.

(02-13-2019, 10:52 PM)Jpoore Wrote: The point is are the guys that are there better than Simmons or even? I think not. Simmons would be a top 5 pick if not for the abuse issue. Even if they're hurt next year their production over a 10 year period is estimated to be substantially better than someone who is healthy this year, u take them.

Unless you draft a guard in the first round and let them walk after their rookie deal...Then those early years count more and more.

(02-14-2019, 03:17 PM)ochocincos Wrote: That's not really your call to make. It might not be enough time for you, but it might be enough for someone else.

Interestingly enough, less than 3 years after Mixon punched the girl was enough time to determine he was a good guy. 

(02-14-2019, 12:11 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: If the Bengals didn't have sooooo many needs, I could see taking him in the 2nd. But with the new coaching staff and the possibility of switching to a 3-4, we need guys in rounds 1-3 that can play now.

Not if the team/organization determines they won't be able to build a good enough team to confidently win now. Unless the Bengals bring in at least a couple clear upgrades in FA, they won't simply become contenders again by a single draft.

We definitely don't need to consider injured players. But wait our one and only HOF player had an extensive history of injuries.

(02-14-2019, 03:23 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Not if the team/organization determines they won't be able to build a good enough team to confidently win now. Unless the Bengals bring in at least a couple clear upgrades in FA, they won't simply become contenders again by a single draft.

I get what you're saying, but if they are willing to mortgage this year under your scenario, I'd rather they just blow up the team and trade our veterans with value ala the Browns from a few years ago. Geno, Dunlap, and Green don't have many good years left.

(02-14-2019, 04:24 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I get what you're saying, but if they are willing to mortgage this year under your scenario, I'd rather they just blow up the team and trade our veterans with value ala the Browns from a few years ago. Geno, Dunlap, and Green don't have many good years left.

Using a 2nd round pick isn't mortgaging the year. The Chiefs used a 1st to get Mahomes knowing full well they'd sit him all year. They still had a good year making the playoffs.

(02-14-2019, 04:28 PM)Au165 Wrote: Using a 2nd round pick isn't mortgaging the year. The Chiefs used a 1st to get Mahomes knowing full well they'd sit him all year. They still had a good year making the playoffs.

Please read ocho's quote I was referring to. He gave a scenario where the Bengals didn't think they could win this year. 

And to be fair, the Chiefs were 12-4 going into that draft and were certainly more talented than the Bengals are now. 

(02-14-2019, 04:39 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: Please read ocho's quote I was referring to. He gave a scenario where the Bengals didn't think they could win this year. 

And to be fair, the Chiefs were 12-4 going into that draft and were certainly more talented than the Bengals are now. 

Sure, but normally you'd take that draft as a chance to push you to a SB when you are 12-4 but instead they doubled down on the future instead of getting a defensive player they badly needed. They even on the cusp of success planned for the future. The Patriots have done it for years using 2nd round picks on back ups to Brady just in case he chose to retire or regressed instead of investing in immediate needs.

(02-14-2019, 04:44 PM)Au165 Wrote: Sure, but normally you'd take that draft as a chance to push you to a SB when you are 12-4 but instead they doubled down on the future instead of getting a defensive player they badly needed. They even on the cusp of success planned for the future. The Patriots have done it for years using 2nd round picks on back ups to Brady just in case he chose to retire or regressed instead of investing in immediate needs.

Yeah, I want the Bengals to draft like KC and NE too. Count me in. 

(02-14-2019, 05:05 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: Yeah, I want the Bengals to draft like KC and NE too. Count me in. 

Then you are good with taking players who may not play this year knowing it will pay off in the future. Eagles also did this with CB Sidney Jones after he got hurt in the pre draft process. You take value when you see value because needs can kind of ebb and flow.

(02-14-2019, 05:12 PM)Au165 Wrote: Then you are good with taking players who may not play this year knowing it will pay off in the future. Eagles also did this with CB Sidney Jones after he got hurt in the pre draft process. You take value when you see value because needs can kind of ebb and flow.

I'm not even sure what you are arguing here. Yes, draft like playoff teams. Yes, draft for the future.

You were replying offtopic to my point that the window for Geno, Dunlap, and Green is closing. If you want to be competitive during their window, you need to draft players that don't need redshirt year. If you don't think you can be competitive soon. Blow it up, trade veterans and yes, draft players for a few years from now, not just immediately. 

(02-14-2019, 04:24 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I get what you're saying, but if they are willing to mortgage this year under your scenario, I'd rather they just blow up the team and trade our veterans with value ala the Browns from a few years ago. Geno, Dunlap, and Green don't have many good years left.

They might, we don't know. Dunlap and Geno were extended back when Marvin was extended. Now, Marvin is gone, so maybe they do some analysis and determine it's a true rebuilding year. Let's see how FA plays out.

(02-14-2019, 05:36 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I'm not even sure what you are arguing here. Yes, draft like playoff teams. Yes, draft for the future.

You were replying offtopic to my point that the window for Geno, Dunlap, and Green is closing. If you want to be competitive during their window, you need to draft players that don't need redshirt year. If you don't think you can be competitive soon. Blow it up, trade veterans and yes, draft players for a few years from now, not just immediately. 

You’re saying either draft to win now or blow it up. I’m saying you can draft for the future and still be attempting to win now. While those teams were winning they still had pieces they could have used to get over the jump but instead chose to draft value for the future and by pass on needs currently.

(02-14-2019, 06:15 PM)Au165 Wrote: You’re saying either draft to win now or blow it up. I’m saying you can draft for the future and still be attempting to win now. While those teams were winning they still had pieces they could have used to get over the jump but instead chose to draft value for the future and by pass on needs currently.

Way off topic question but it won't stop bugging me. 

As regards your handle--Au is gold.  That much I know.  What is the 165?