(02-17-2019, 08:12 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I know people really liked Pollack because of his results in Dallas...

But he inherited some All-Pro lineman there and I think they had like 4 really great lineman. Boling, who was our best lineman would have been lucky to start there.

I don't know that he had to come in and do much assessment and development as they were already great.

Yes, he had a lot of talent to work with there.

I think how Doug Free was coached up by him was really what stood out to me about Pollack.

Pollack inherited a bad line here, hope Turner gets some talent to work with but Westerman has shown some good stuff and needs a chance to start. With Taylor, Callahan and Turner here he might get a shot. It almost seemed Westerman was in one of the coaches dog house, whether it was Marv, Pollack or Lazor i don't know.

It feels to me like Westerman will leave here and make the Pro Bowl somewhere else eventually.

(02-18-2019, 05:46 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It feels to me like Westerman will leave here and make the Pro Bowl somewhere else eventually.

No more than Chase Coffman, Jason Shirley, or Dez Briscoe.

Two experienced OL coaches have decided he was not good enough, and he has never done anything great when he played.  People act like he was good in the final game, but he only played half the snaps, and he got blown up on an extra point attempt.  I still don't see why so many people were so in impressed with him.

(02-18-2019, 06:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Two experienced OL coaches have decided he was not good enough, and he has never done anything great when he played.  People act like he was good in the final game, but he only played half the snaps, and he got blown up on an extra point attempt.  I still don't see why so many people were so in impressed with him.

Marvin decided playing time and who's the starter. That's always been the case.

He was good in the final game.
Also, Westerman played more snaps (96) than Cedric Ogbuehi (54), Jake Fisher (45), and Andre Smith (26) this past season.
Bobby Hart had the most snaps among all our offensive players, and he was awful.
Alex Redmond had the 3rd most and was also awful.

He did play impressive.
In Westerman's 60 pass blocks, he only allowed 2 hurries.

It's not so much that people were "impressed" with Westerman.
It's moreso that people wanted to bench Redmond, an obviously bad player.

Hart and Redmond combined for 25 penalties (23 accepted).
Cincinnati was the ONLY team in 2018 to have two offensive players have double digit penalties.

Westerman may not be the answer to fix our offensive line issues. Fans were just tired of seeing Hart and Redmond hold this offense back.

(02-18-2019, 06:27 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Marvin decided playing time and who's the starter. That's always been the case.

He was good in the final game.
Also, Westerman played more snaps (96) than Cedric Ogbuehi (54), Jake Fisher (45), and Andre Smith (26) this past season.
Bobby Hart had the most snaps among all our offensive players, and he was awful.
Alex Redmond had the 3rd most and was also awful.

He did play impressive.
In Westerman's 60 pass blocks, he only allowed 2 hurries.

It's not so much that people were "impressed" with Westerman.
It's moreso that people wanted to bench Redmond, an obviously bad player.

Hart and Redmond combined for 25 penalties (23 accepted).
Cincinnati was the ONLY team in 2018 to have two offensive players have double digit penalties.

Westerman may not be the answer to fix our offensive line issues. Fans were just tired of seeing Hart and Redmond hold this offense back.

You know it Wolf. It wasn't just our imagination or something.

Westerman was clearly better than Redmond and anyone with eyes could see it.

I guess, except Fred.

(02-18-2019, 06:52 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You know it Wolf. It wasn't just our imagination or something.

Westerman was clearly better than Redmond and anyone with eyes could see it.

I guess, except Fred.

You mean "Fred and multiple NFL coaches"?

I have heard the exact same thing about a lot of "fan favorites" who have passed through here.  Most of them never amount to anything anywhere.

I get it that people were upset with Redmond and Hart, but that doe not mean the back up was better.

(02-18-2019, 06:27 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: He was good in the final game.

No he was not.  Other than one long run by Mixon we had NO OFFENSE in the last game.
Final drive of the game Westerman starts it out with a false start penalty.
I thought I remembered him getting blown up on an extra point, but that must have been a different game.

(02-18-2019, 07:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You mean "Fred and multiple NFL coaches"?

I have heard the exact same thing about a lot of "fan favorites" who have passed through here.  Most of them never amount to anything anywhere.

I get it that people were upset with Redmond and Hart, but that doe not mean the back up was better.

The fact that he was does mean that he was, though..

(02-18-2019, 07:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No he was not.  Other than one long run by Mixon we had NO OFFENSE in the last game.
Final drive of the game Westerman starts it out with a false start penalty.
I thought I remembered him getting blown up on an extra point, but that must have been a different game.

When you lose your starting QB, two WRs, and are on your 3rd TE, I think you're going to struggle against any team offensively.
Driskel was hit 9 times and was sacked 4 times. None came from Westerman.
They put Westerman in because Redmond was awful in the final game.

You may be correct. But, no extra point was blocked.

So. Again. Westerman may not be great. But Redmond was dreadful all year long and destroyed numerous drives. As did Hart.

(02-18-2019, 07:42 PM)McC Wrote: The fact that he was does mean that he was, though..

Except he was not.

(02-18-2019, 07:52 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: You may be correct. But, no extra point was blocked.

Chargers game, right before halftime.  Down 12-14 we go for two and Westerman gives up the sack.

(02-18-2019, 08:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Except he was not.

But he was.  PFF says it.  Eyeballs say it.   Pretty much everyone but you says it.

(02-18-2019, 07:52 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: When you lose your starting QB, two WRs, and are on your 3rd TE, I think you're going to struggle against any team offensively.
Driskel was hit 9 times and was sacked 4 times. None came from Westerman.
They put Westerman in because Redmond was awful in the final game.

You may be correct. But, no extra point was blocked.

So. Again. Westerman may not be great. But Redmond was dreadful all year long and destroyed numerous drives. As did Hart.

Yep.   Our offense was known as first and fifteen.

(02-18-2019, 08:15 PM)McC Wrote: Yep.   Our offense was known as first and fifteen.

On our last drive against the Steelers that was because of Westerman.

(02-18-2019, 08:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: On our last drive against the Steelers that was because of Westerman.

Okay,  He had one.  Nobody is saying he's Max Montoya, just that he was better than that turd they ran out there for sixteen weeks.

(02-18-2019, 08:49 PM)McC Wrote: Okay,  He had one.  Nobody is saying he's Max Montoya, just that he was better than that turd they ran out there for sixteen weeks.

I am not defending Redmond.  But just because he was bad does not mean Westerman is any better.

(02-18-2019, 08:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am not defending Redmond.  But just because he was bad does not mean Westerman is any better.

But, in the chances he got, he was definitively better. 

Yes, find a better RG than Westerman.  The better the line, the better the offense.

Yep. Westerman graded out better in the limited snaps he got than Redmond.

Now how he would have done over 16 games, who knows? But in the small sample size, he looked better.

(02-18-2019, 08:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Chargers game, right before halftime.  Down 12-14 we go for two and Westerman gives up the sack.

#Bengals' Christian Westerman earned an 84.0 overall grade across his 42 offensive snaps on Sunday, the highest overall grade of any qualifying Bengal in Week 14.

Westerman and C Billy Price were the only two CIN OL that allowed zero pressures against LAC. #WestermanHive

— PFF CIN Bengals (@PFF_Bengals) December 10, 2018

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Also, the Bengals ran 65 total offensive plays (including field goals and punts)
So Westerman was in for 42 of those plays

(02-18-2019, 07:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You mean "Fred and multiple NFL coaches"?

I have heard the exact same thing about a lot of "fan favorites" who have passed through here.  Most of them never amount to anything anywhere.

I get it that people were upset with Redmond and Hart, but that doe not mean the back up was better.

As Wolf said, Marv decided playing time which is why Westerman didn't start over Redmond. As far as how all of these players have played, Westerman has been better than Redmond as Wolf has the stats to back that up. Whats up Fred? You don't like the stats? Thought you were a stat guy?