(09-21-2015, 05:29 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Yeah.  Especially a guy who quit on this franchise to play for the Raiders.

I wish him all the best.  

(09-21-2015, 07:40 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: I wouldn't consider myself a "detractor".  Say what you will about Marv but he has been the most successful coach in franchise history.  Mikey hired him and has also opened the checkbook to keep the best players here.

Carson quit on this team. He didn't leave to go to a better situation than he was in.  He went to the ***** Raiders.  Sorry if I don't have a soft spot for someone who quit on a franchise that has had more success with him being gone.

(09-21-2015, 09:16 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: As you admit, he quit on the team.  Mike Brown made the guy one of the richest QB in the history of the game at the time.  Drafted AJ Green for him to throw too.  Considering that we made the playoffs that same season things weren't all that disastrous.  Short of Marvin and Mike tag teaming his wife I can't see any situation that would justify him quitting on the team the way he did.  

(09-22-2015, 12:58 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: He was drafted by the Bengals.  And they made him very rich.  He pays them back by  quitting on the team.  

You act like someone from management slept with his wife.  AJ would have been drafted regardless and had he stayed he would have played on playoff teams the last four seasons.  And if he was so much better than Dalton, they probably would have won some playoff games.  

Sorry if I'm not going to ride the jock of a dude who quit on this franchise.  A franchise that's only been one of the best in the league since he has gone.  Some would imply he left because this was a sinking ship and mess of a franchise.  Well 4 straight playoff games says otherwise. 

(09-22-2015, 01:57 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: I'm a Bengals fan.  Why wouldn't I be emotional about the supposed leader of the team quitting after a 4-12 season?  Palmer admitted himself that his reasons were "selfish".  Short of the team screwing with his money or wife, I can't see a justifiable reason for his departure.  

That's why I could care less for him.  He made it clear what he thought about my team by the way he exited.  

(09-22-2015, 08:38 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: You can try to justify it anyway you want but Marvin was and is the coach of the Bengals so for all intents and purposes he quit the Bengals.

I guess it was a one player mutiny.  That is why he himself called it "selfish".

I agree with him.

(09-22-2015, 10:09 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: What!?  The dude quit.  I never said he assaulted anyone.  I've only accused him of quitting on his fellow players and the franchise.  I only brought up the wife bit, because that's about the only reason I could justifiably see the guy leaving town.  Are you implying that as long as a player doesn't assault someone you are cool with them quitting?  He wasn't treated badly by this franchise, so why make excuses for him?  He didn't make any for himself.  

And why would I be "butthurt"?  The team's success has made it fairly easy to forget about him.  That said, I see no reasons to make excuses for or to cheer for a guy who quit on my team.  

(09-22-2015, 10:32 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Marvin Lewis is the HC of the Bengals.  If you don't want to play for him, you effectively don't want to play for the Bengals.  And if Marvin was such a horrible guy to play for, why aren't any other players in a hurry to leave here?  Players that aren't being compensated and pampered nearly as much as the starting QB?

And he said himself that his reasons were "selfish".  

What else is there to say? 

The only people who would defend him are people who feel the same way about Marvin and the team that he felt.   

(09-22-2015, 10:56 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: You apologize for him because you obviously think he was justified in leaving.  Why speculate on his reasons for leaving or give him the benefit of the doubt when he is quoted himself as calling them "selfish"?  "Selfish" isn't a word generally used by team-first types of guys.  He quit because he was selfish.  He didn't want to be part of the turnaround so he quit.  He obviously had no intentions on "retiring".  That was the only leverage he had to force a trade off the team.  Are you really that naive?  I know you aren't.

And indeed I'm free to feel he is a quitter and do.  I'm no more "butt hurt" about it than any reasonable person who would call themselves a fan of the Bengals would be.  I don't know many Bengals fans who will be actively rooting for Carson.  Carson certainly wasn't rooting for the Bengals was he?  

(09-22-2015, 01:13 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Yeah.  Feel free to root him on.  Really hope AZ wins the Super Bowl.  It would be so awesome! 

(09-22-2015, 01:21 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Especially after they pay you a bunch of money and set you up with a team that's made the playoff 4 years in a row.  Who wouldn't want to get out of such a toxic environment?  

Yeah man, you're definitely not butthurt and you definitely did a great job forgetting about him.

(09-22-2015, 01:39 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Yeah man, you're definitely not butthurt and you definitely did a great job forgetting about him.

Excuse me for being a Bengals fan who doesn't feel the need to apologize and root for highly-compensated selfish players who quit the team.

If that makes me a "Butt hurt" homer so be it.  My ass is sore as hell.  

Who Dey!

(09-22-2015, 01:48 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Excuse me for being a Bengals fan who doesn't feel the need to apologize and root for highly-compensated selfish players who quit the team.

If that makes me a "Butt hurt" homer so be it.  My ass is sore as hell.  

Who Dey!

How do you feel about highly compensated head coaches who also threaten to quit and then cave in at the last minute?  Because that's what Marvin Lewis did to lose Carson's respect.  Marvin is as big a quitter as Carson, it's just that Carson had other job offers and Marvin didn't so one of them could afford to stand his ground and the other decided his paycheck was worth more than his principles.

I'm sorry things are more simple that Carson just being a stupid old quitter, but thems the breaks.  Thankfully Denny isn't running this board to ban me for daring to point this out.

Marvin Lewis and Carson Palmer both threatened to "quit" and Mikey called their bluff and Marvin caved in and Carson didn't. Why you think that makes Marvin so much more admirable than Carson I'll never understand. Oh wait I get it, one of them has a stipey B on his hat and the other doesn't. Well, at least we are honest about the bias!

(09-22-2015, 02:07 PM)Nately120 Wrote: How do you feel about highly compensated head coaches who also threaten to quit and then cave in at the last minute?  Because that's what Marvin Lewis did to lose Carson's respect.  Marvin is as big a quitter as Carson, it's just that Carson had other job offers and Marvin didn't so one of them could afford to stand his ground and the other decided his paycheck was worth more than his principles.

I'm sorry things are more simple that Carson just being a stupid old quitter, but thems the breaks.  Thankfully Denny isn't running this board to ban me for daring to point this out.

I don't know, but hopefully he writes a dozen or so more posts explaining how he's not upset about Carson and that he's forgotten about him long ago

Hey, I don't care about the Beatles at all and I've completely forgotten about them so much that I can't even remember any of their names. WANT TO ARGUE ABOUT THEM FOR A FEW DAYS OR WHAT?!?!?!

(09-22-2015, 02:07 PM)Nately120 Wrote: How do you feel about highly compensated head coaches who also threaten to quit and then cave in at the last minute?  Because that's what Marvin Lewis did to lose Carson's respect.  Marvin is as big a quitter as Carson, it's just that Carson had other job offers and Marvin didn't so one of them could afford to stand his ground and the other decided his paycheck was worth more than his principles.

I'm sorry things are more simple that Carson just being a stupid old quitter, but thems the breaks.  Thankfully Denny isn't running this board to ban me for daring to point this out.

Marvin Lewis and Carson Palmer both threatened to "quit" and Mikey called their bluff and Marvin caved in and Carson didn't.  Why you think that makes Marvin so much more admirable than Carson I'll never understand.  Oh wait I get it, one of them has a stipey B on his hat and the other doesn't.  Well, at least we are honest about the bias!

Not sure how you "quit" all while having 4 straight winning seasons and 4 straight playoff appearances with the team you supposedly "quit" on.

Glad the right "quitter" actually left town.  

(09-22-2015, 02:29 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Not sure how you "quit" all while having 4 straight winning seasons and 4 straight playoff appearances with the team you supposedly "quit" on.

Glad the right "quitter" actually left town.  

You are simply choosing to ignore the intricacies of this situation now.  Ok anyways, let's get back to the main topic of complaining that no one believes in the Bengals even though we are ranked 4th in the power rankings on NFL.com and they are praising the hell out of Dalton.

(09-22-2015, 01:48 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: My ass is sore as hell.  

Yes?

(09-22-2015, 02:33 PM)Nately120 Wrote: You are simply choosing to ignore the intricacies of this situation now.  Ok anyways, let's get back to the main topic of complaining that no one believes in the Bengals even though we are ranked 4th in the power rankings on NFL.com and they are praising the hell out of Dalton.

"intricacies" 

(09-22-2015, 02:44 PM)YES Wrote: Yes?

When you take it out of context.  Apparently so.  

(09-22-2015, 01:48 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Excuse me for being a Bengals fan who doesn't feel the need to apologize and root for highly-compensated selfish players who quit the team.

If that makes me a "Butt hurt" homer so be it.  My ass is sore as hell.  

Who Dey!

Palmer was a whiny, spoiled little brat who was not a good leader.  I hope we get to face him in the Super Bowl and beat his ass.

(09-22-2015, 03:09 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Meh, Carson didn't want to play for Marvin Lewis anymore.  As long as Marvin Lewis = Bengals to you then you are right, Carson doesn't want to play for your team.  But this team is bigger than Marvin Lewis, regardless of  your thoughts on his retention after 2010.

Players have a hard time winning the salary or trade-me battles because they are going against owners who are viewed as "THE TEAM" in the eyes of fans.  It's unfair in a sense, but that's why players are in on the business and we are not.  So it goes.

You're trying to dress this up but it's not working.  He quit on the team.  Then he went to the Raiders and started crying there.   You know who held the Bengals together after that? Andrew Whitworth.  He's the reason the Bengals are where they are.  That's why Whit is my favorite player.

Here is what I don't get about the bulk of Bengals fans who despise Palmer.  Would you all have preferred that he stay on the team, collect the $50 million that was still owed to him, and not wanted to be here?  Would you prefer that he turn into a locker room cancer, publicly bad mouth the team, give less than full effort? 

Think about how much conviction it takes to say "I don't want to be here, and would prefer to walk away from $50 million, then stay here another day".  It's not like he just failed to show up to training camp.  He gave the team plenty of notice so that they could make other arrangements.  And I'm sorry, but the whole "he didn't live up to his commitment" speech that Mike Brown gave was crap... NFL teams cut players all the time who have plenty of money and years left on their contracts.

(09-24-2015, 09:03 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: Palmer was a whiny, spoiled little brat who was not a good leader.  I hope we get to face him in the Super Bowl and beat his ass.

That's pretty much my impression of him.  Enjoyed whooping him when he played for the Raiders.  Will be in Phoenix hoping for the same outcome.  

(09-24-2015, 10:30 AM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Here is what I don't get about the bulk of Bengals fans who despise Palmer.  Would you all have preferred that he stay on the team, collect the $50 million that was still owed to him, and not wanted to be here?  Would you prefer that he turn into a locker room cancer, publicly bad mouth the team, give less than full effort? 

Think about how much conviction it takes to say "I don't want to be here, and would prefer to walk away from $50 million, then stay here another day".  It's not like he just failed to show up to training camp.  He gave the team plenty of notice so that they could make other arrangements.  And I'm sorry, but the whole "he didn't live up to his commitment" speech that Mike Brown gave was crap... NFL teams cut players all the time who have plenty of money and years left on their contracts.

Palmer was posturing.  He had no intention whatsoever to never play football again.  

And something tells me he would have been happy playing on 4-straight playoff teams and throwing to AJ Green in the process.   It wasn't just a coincidence he cut bait after a 4-12 season.  

(09-24-2015, 12:22 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Palmer was posturing.  He had no intention whatsoever to never play football again.  

And something tells me he would have been happy playing on 4-straight playoff teams and throwing to AJ Green in the process.   It wasn't just a coincidence he cut bait after a 4-12 season.  

This is where we completely disagree.  I don't think he was posturing at all, I firmly believe he was done with the Bengals and the Brown family.  I do think that Brown thought he was bluffing, because I think the idea of walking away from money is completely foreign to him.  I think he accepted the trade to Oakland because of his relationship with Jackson.  Ending up in Arizona makes complete sense from a standpoint of system and also proximity to his family.

Things have reportedly gotten better since MB has begun to step back, but I cannot fault people for not wanting to be here during his reign.  Keep in mind, there are grown men, they are adults with minds of their own.  If you or I don't like our boss or the company we work for, we simply quit and find a more preferable situation.  These guys don't really have that option.  So saying "I've made enough money, I refuse to put up with this any longer" is not illogical.  Or at least I don't think it is.

Mike Brown is still an idiot to this day. The fact that we still haven't heard a peep about an indoor facility - 4 years after one was promised - is ridiculous.

The idea that CP and Marv had some kind of plan against Mike Brown sounds nice, but what would they have been trying to get? A facility? A certain coach fired? It just doesn't seem realistic to believe things went down this way.

Besides, CP showed (again) that he wasn't a team player in Oakland when he refused a pay cut for the last year of his deal, knowing full well that the Raiders would release him. He forced their hand as well.

How many franchise QB's have forced their way out of one franchise...let alone two?

(09-24-2015, 12:44 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: This is where we completely disagree.  I don't think he was posturing at all, I firmly believe he was done with the Bengals and the Brown family.  I do think that Brown thought he was bluffing, because I think the idea of walking away from money is completely foreign to him.  I think he accepted the trade to Oakland because of his relationship with Jackson.  Ending up in Arizona makes complete sense from a standpoint of system and also proximity to his family.

Things have reportedly gotten better since MB has begun to step back, but I cannot fault people for not wanting to be here during his reign.  Keep in mind, there are grown men, they are adults with minds of their own.  If you or I don't like our boss or the company we work for, we simply quit and find a more preferable situation.  These guys don't really have that option.  So saying "I've made enough money, I refuse to put up with this any longer" is not illogical.  Or at least I don't think it is.

You are only proving my point:  you don't see Carson as a quitter because you feel the same way as he does about the franchise.  How many other players over the last 4 years have wanted out of so badly other than Carson?  Doesn't appear to be a trend and Brown is still the owner and Marvin is still the coach.    

(09-24-2015, 02:01 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: You are only proving my point:  you don't see Carson as a quitter because you feel the same way as he does about the franchise.  How many other players over the last 4 years have wanted out of so badly other than Carson?  Doesn't appear to be a trend and Brown is still the owner and Marvin is still the coach.    

There has been a laundry list of players that wanted to get the hell out of dodge since Mike has been running things.

(09-24-2015, 02:01 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: You are only proving my point:  you don't see Carson as a quitter because you feel the same way as he does about the franchise.  How many other players over the last 4 years have wanted out of so badly other than Carson?  Doesn't appear to be a trend and Brown is still the owner and Marvin is still the coach.    

You're talking about the last four years, after Palmer left.  He was here since 2004.  I would describe his time here as the beginning of the "transition".  The transition from Mike ruling things with an iron fist to him letting others make more and more decisions.  I dare say things are A LOT different today than they were ten years ago, and that makes all the difference in the world when it comes to perspective.

Personally... and this is all speculation.... I think Palmer leaving hurt Mike Brown emotionally. He wanted to know why. He wanted to know what he was doing that forced his prize player away from him. I think through this entire process he realized that he had too much control over the team. How he was running the team hadn't been working, so he had two choices.

1) Fire Marvin, hire a new coach, and keep on the same path, hoping for different results.
2) Consult with Marvin on how to fix the situation..... what WAS the problem?

Marvin, being experienced as he is, decided, look, here are things we need to change to make our players happier here, and to improve the outlook of this team. Things have been different since then certainly. The team has gotten better, and situations like JJo and CPalmer seem to be things of the past. They gave more control to individuals like Katie Blackburn who have done a stern job of getting contracts signed for a decent price and in a timely manner. Something that hasn't always been done efficiently in the past, from my knowledge.

Now again, after 4 years of getting to the playoffs and not reaching the goal, Mike Brown & Marvin have realized again they need to change things. Much like Coughlin in NY, I think Marvin has lightened up a little. I think he has changed his philosophy a little bit (much like coughlin did before the superbowl) in the hopes of getting us over the hump. Marvin says he evaluated himself 4 years ago, and has done so again before this season. Hopefully this reevaluation Is the one that turns the Bengals into a powerhouse.



This could all be hypothetical bullshit, or it could be what has happened behind doors. The main point being, Mike Brown was hurt by Carson Palmer, and things have changed since then.