Hopefully we see the team trade some of these "low hit rate" picks for veteran "locker room guys".

(02-23-2019, 12:23 PM)McC Wrote: Well, there are a few guys who did a little something for other teams. 

Boom Herron had one of the all time great punt blocks for us--he blocked a punt with the punter's personal protector.  Not many guys can say that.  And, he did have a hundred yard rushing game against us.

And then there's Burkhead.

I'd like to see the list of 6th rounders for other teams.  I have a feeling it'd be pretty close to the same thing.  No Antonio Browns on our list though.

Lately it's been pretty barren, but there's definitely been a bit of success. I'm only going to list Pro Bowlers from the 6th round during the Marvin era, because we would never be able to spot another team's Corey Lynch. Heck, most Bengals fans probably don't even remember him. Lol

Hanik Milligan (2003)
Cato June (2003)
David Tyree (2003)
Yeremiah Bell (2003)
Andy Lee (2004)
Chris Myers (2005)
Derek Anderson (2005)
Delanie Walker (2006)
Lawrence Vickers (2006)
Sam Koch (2006)
Antoine Bethea (2006)
Nick Folk (2007)
Cedric Peerman (2009)  He was a Ravens draft pick, actually.
Greg Hardy (2010)
Antonio Brown (2010)
Dwayne Harris (2011)
Tyrod Taylor (2011)
Jason Kelce (2011)
Greg Zuerlein (2012)
Alfred Morris (2012)
Blair Walsh (2012)
Justin Bethel (2012)
Latavius Murray (2013)



So 23 Pro Bowlers in the 6th round in the ML Era. Interestingly enough, the Ravens got FOUR of those 23.

(Also keep in mind that's 23 out of about 600-ish picks, and there's a good amount of special teams guys on that list. K/P/KR/PR/Gunner.)

(02-23-2019, 01:36 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Lately it's been pretty barren, but there's definitely been a bit of success. I'm only going to list Pro Bowlers from the 6th round during the Marvin era, because we would never be able to spot another team's Corey Lynch. Heck, most Bengals fans probably don't even remember him. Lol

Hanik Milligan (2003)
Cato June (2003)
David Tyree (2003)
Yeremiah Bell (2003)
Andy Lee (2004)
Chris Myers (2005)
Derek Anderson (2005)
Delanie Walker (2006)
Lawrence Vickers (2006)
Sam Koch (2006)
Antoine Bethea (2006)
Nick Folk (2007)
Cedric Peerman (2009)  He was a Ravens draft pick, actually.
Greg Hardy (2010)
Antonio Brown (2010)
Dwayne Harris (2011)
Tyrod Taylor (2011)
Jason Kelce (2011)
Greg Zuerlein (2012)
Alfred Morris (2012)
Blair Walsh (2012)
Justin Bethel (2012)
Latavius Murray (2013)



So 23 Pro Bowlers in the 6th round in the ML Era. Interestingly enough, the Ravens got FOUR of those 23.

That had to take some research to put that list together.  Props on that.

And 23 is quite a few. This is probably the kind of area where more scouts might be worthwhile.

(02-23-2019, 01:36 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Lately it's been pretty barren, but there's definitely been a bit of success. I'm only going to list Pro Bowlers from the 6th round during the Marvin era, because we would never be able to spot another team's Corey Lynch. Heck, most Bengals fans probably don't even remember him. Lol

Hanik Milligan (2003)
Cato June (2003)
David Tyree (2003)
Yeremiah Bell (2003)
Andy Lee (2004)
Chris Myers (2005)
Derek Anderson (2005)
Delanie Walker (2006)
Lawrence Vickers (2006)
Sam Koch (2006)
Antoine Bethea (2006)
Nick Folk (2007)
Cedric Peerman (2009)  He was a Ravens draft pick, actually.
Greg Hardy (2010)
Antonio Brown (2010)
Dwayne Harris (2011)
Tyrod Taylor (2011)
Jason Kelce (2011)
Greg Zuerlein (2012)
Alfred Morris (2012)
Blair Walsh (2012)
Justin Bethel (2012)
Latavius Murray (2013)



So 23 Pro Bowlers in the 6th round in the ML Era. Interestingly enough, the Ravens got FOUR of those 23.

(Also keep in mind that's 23 out of about 600-ish picks, and there's a good amount of special teams guys on that list. K/P/KR/PR/Gunner.)

Lol was gonna say I count 3 kickers a punter and I know Ced made the pro bowl so the special teams guy.

(02-23-2019, 01:38 PM)McC Wrote: That had to take some research to put that list together.  Props on that.

And 23 is quite a few.  This is probably the kind of area where more scouts might be worthwhile.

23 6th round Pro Bowlers from 2003-2018 isn't as much as you'd think, though. For instance, in the same time span there were 76 undrafted players who went on to be Pro Bowlers (which means the Bengals getting Burfict is still below the other team's average of 2.5).

- - - - - - -
Honestly in the ML era, outside of the first two rounds, they suck at getting Pro Bowlers. From 2003-2018 they got 3.

Geno Atkins
Kevin Huber
Ahmad Brooks (drafted him for the wrong defense)

The other 10 Pro Bowlers they drafted in the ML Era are all 1st and 2nd round picks, which made me ever more confused as to why they decided to hoard all of the comp picks.

In comparison to the Bengals getting 3 Pro Bowlers in the 3rd-7th rounds, the rest of the NFL in that time span got 161 (5.2 each).

They should draft 5 OT's in the 6th round and hope they can develop one of them into a solid starter.

(02-23-2019, 02:08 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 23 6th round Pro Bowlers from 2003-2018 isn't as much as you'd think, though. For instance, in the same time span there were 76 undrafted players who went on to be Pro Bowlers (which means the Bengals getting Burfict is still below the other team's average of 2.5).

- - - - - - -
Honestly in the ML era, outside of the first two rounds, they suck at getting Pro Bowlers. From 2003-2018 they got 3.

Geno Atkins
Kevin Huber
Ahmad Brooks (drafted him for the wrong defense)

The other 10 Pro Bowlers they drafted in the ML Era are all 1st and 2nd round picks, which made me ever more confused as to why they decided to hoard all of the comp picks.

In comparison to the Bengals getting 3 Pro Bowlers in the 3rd-7th rounds, the rest of the NFL in that time span got 161 (5.2 each).

That is pretty pitiful.  Marvin once again making a mockery of the Law of Averages.

(02-22-2019, 07:02 PM)Synric Wrote: Besides TE it's actually pretty close to twice as high % wise.

It's a bit dated.

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Quote:Historic Success Chart (2005-14)

The numbers show us the following outline for finding consistent starters:
1st Round - OL (83%) LB (70%) TE (67%) DB (64%) QB (63%) WR (58%) RB (58%) DL (58%)
2nd Round - OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%)
3rd Round - OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%)
4th Round - DL (37%) TE (33%) OL (29%) LB (16%) WR(12%) DB (11%) RB (11%) QB (8%)
5th Round - TE (32%) DB (17%) WR (16%) OL (16%) DL (13%) RB (9%) LB (4%) QB (0%)
6th Round - TE (26%) OL (16%) DL (13%) WR (9%) DB (8%) RB (6%) LB (5%) QB (0%)
7th Round - DB (11%) OL (9%) QB (6%) WR (5%) DL (3%) LB (2%) RB (0%) TE (0%)

And honestly do you think 5...6th round picks are going to make the roster or even the practice squad? I'd say if they like a player that they have a 4th round grade on packaging a late round picks to get him is a good idea.

(02-22-2019, 07:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  What I am saying is that multiple picks increase our chances of getting a good player.  When you see people buy multiple lottery tickets they are not planning on winning every time.  Instead they are increasing their chances of winning once.

According the draft pick value chart you would only get a late fourth round pick in exchange for all three of our sixth round comp picks.  The numbers you posted show that at most positions there is rally not that big of a difference between the chances of finding a good player.  There are certainly not three times better odds. 

Plus those numbers don't look right.  Maybe it has to do with small sample size, but according to that chart you have a better chance of drafting a starting DB in the 7th round than in the 6th.  So maybe we can bundle a couple of our 6th round picks to move back into the 7th round.

I believe Fred has point. In looking at the averages for the 3rd round compared to the 6th round, we'd have a better chance of getting a starter with five 6th round picks than we one 3rd round pick. This, of course, depends on position and how good we scout the players.

We don't need 5 guys from the 6th round to make the team. If we got an upgraded starter at any position it would certainly help.

Now, I can see a case where the team wants to move up to be sure they get a guy that they believe will be make an impact and it could make sense to use one or more of these extra comp picks to make that move. It really depends on the player and the impact the team would expect from him.

Consider a case where a guy expected to go high in the second round is there at the top of the 3rd and you want him and you are certain he'll be gone when we pick at 9th in that round, then you make the move.

For me, I see an upgraded starter as more valuable to the team than a guy sitting on the practice squad. I'd happily trade a practice squad player for an upgraded starter any day of the week.

 

(02-22-2019, 05:18 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: About what we were expecting I guess.

Now have 5 picks in the 6th round alone, including the one gained from the Cowboys for the Benwikere trade.

Need to trade a lot of picks this year, we don't need all these picks. Only a few will make the team, we need to trade up and get quality players at LB and O-line. Think this should be a key strategy this Draft.

Actually, through the years the Bengals have grabbed some decent players in the later rounds - Joe Walter #181, Bob Trumpy 12th, Ken Riley and Max Montoya 6th, Lemar Parrish and TJ Houshmanzadah 7th, and Tim Krumrie 10th, to name a few...

(02-23-2019, 05:24 PM)Clodhopper Wrote: Actually, through the years the Bengals have grabbed some decent players in the later rounds - Joe Walter #181, Bob Trumpy 12th, Ken Riley and Max Montoya 6th, Lemar Parrish and TJ Houshmanzadah 7th,  and Tim Krumrie 10th, to name a few...

One thing that all of those picks have in common?  They were all pre Marvin Lewis era picks.  And, judging from the information deduced from Leonarleap's post, it seems that the late picks in the Marvin Lewis era paled in comparison to the rest of the league.  Maybe Marvin Lewis wasn't the "great judge of talent" that many of us gave him credit for, during much of his run with the Bengals? 

Perhaps Zac Taylor and his hand selected group of assistants will do a better job of identifying players with a specific skill set, that fits into what they want to accomplish on the field?

(02-23-2019, 05:24 PM)Clodhopper Wrote: Actually, through the years the Bengals have grabbed some decent players in the later rounds - Joe Walter #181, Bob Trumpy 12th, Ken Riley and Max Montoya 6th, Lemar Parrish and TJ Houshmanzadah 7th,  and Tim Krumrie 10th, to name a few...

You look at that mid-late 1980s Bengals offensive line- the best in team history IMO- and you also had LG Bruce Reimers as an 8th rounder and C Bruce Kozerski as a ninth.  Hmm, maybe draft 5 OL in the 6th- but be sure to consult Jim McNally.

With 5 chances in the 6th round, they're bound to find a sleeper pick. Duke is pretty good at finding value in the later rounds anyway (granted, most of it is in the 4th and 5th rounds).

(02-23-2019, 06:23 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: With 5 chances in the 6th round, they're bound to find a sleeper pick. Duke is pretty good at finding value in the later rounds anyway (granted, most of it is in the 4th and 5th rounds).

Personally, I wouldn't care if they traded all 6 of those late round picks, in order to get an extra 4th or 5th round pick, or two.  Unless it means they are stepping on Darrin Simmons' toes, as the STs definitely need a restock, as well.

(02-23-2019, 03:24 PM)BengalChris Wrote: For me, I see an upgraded starter as more valuable to the team than a guy sitting on the practice squad. I'd happily trade a practice squad player for an upgraded starter any day of the week.

 

I think everyone would go for that. Generally outside of the first 40ish picks, there's no clear picks on guys who would be upgrades. Heck, there's usually not much consensus on guys outside the first round who will make it as starters.

There's a few positions where you can usually pick up someone in the later rounds. Te, interior linemen, backup QBs, special teams. Statistically we'd be better off with lots of picks in a later round than trying to move up 5-10 positions in the third or fourth 

I mean, if we could jump up to 5 from 11, then heck yeah, trade em. But that's probably not happening since hue isn't in Cleveland any more.

I just saw that the Patriots got 2 3rd Round compensatory picks and have 6 picks over the 1st 2 days.

Saw another stat that since the NFL started awarding compensatory picks in I believe 2004...the Bengals have gotten the 6th most of any team.

While it seems like 3 were a lot this year...there were several teams that got more.

(02-23-2019, 07:03 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I just saw that the Patriots got 2 3rd Round compensatory picks and have 6 picks over the 1st 2 days.

Saw another stat that since the NFL started awarding compensatory picks in I believe 2004...the Bengals have gotten the 6th most of any team.

While it seems like 3 were a lot this year...there were several teams that got more.

The Pats are likely good potential trade partners.  They have historically shown that they can draft excellent, without a 1st round pick..

(02-23-2019, 07:12 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Call the steelers and offer one of the 6th rounders for Antonio Brown...just to be a dick.  Oh, and leak it to Adam Schefter so it is made public.  

Call to offer "An undrafted free agent, Oh I'm sorry..they're untradable" picks.. 

(02-22-2019, 09:24 PM)corpjet Wrote: Sad but true......Mike Brown gets a chubby over Comp picks.........

At least he doesn't get one at Florida massage parlor.

The bad thing is that some of these guys won't make the team.

It should be good to get fast guys on special teams.