(02-28-2019, 05:45 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Ok, so first of all I have always been a big Andy Dalton supporter. I think he's a guy that you can win with in the NFL and I think he's overly criticized by many in the area. I think it's pretty ludicrous to consider taking a QB in first round (and did last year as well) with as many other glaring needs this team has. Andy Dalton should be the starting QB for the Bengals next year.

BUT...

The Arizona Cardinals seem eager to part with Rosen in order to take Kyler Murray #1 this year. Josh Rosen was a first round QB taken in a year filled to the brim with highly regarded QB talent - he went top 10 last year with the Cardinals moving up to grab him. Personally I don't think it's fair to call him a bust after one year playing for an awful team under an unproven (and promptly fired) head coach. There may very well be something there in my opinion... and you should be able to buy low in order to get him. No way can the Cardinals be expecting anyone to give them a first round pick for him, right? Maybe a team with a low pick in the first round, but how many of those teams need a QB? And even if, say, the Patriots wanted to groom him, will they even have that pick after the Kraft stuff is sorted out? And then instead of burning a 1st rounder on a QB you can maybe take the White kid at LB...

SO...

Why not try to grab a first round talent for non-first round picks? Talk to the Cardinals and if you can work it out, pull the trigger. Bring him in, get a guy with a high ceiling, and then sit him behind Dalton for a year giving him a chance to learn the NFL game and prepare himself for more fair shot than he ever got in Arizona. Two seasons from now (which is Dalton's contract year, I believe), you can give him every chance to win the job, and maybe he does just that and shows you that he's the QB of the future once he hits the field. Gotta figure he'd have a huge chip on his shoulder.

Thoughts? Yes, there are a lot of ifs and maybes there, but am I crazy to think that this is something the Bengals should at least kick the tires on?

I will freely admit to not having seen Rosen play all that often in college or for the Cardinals (though like I said, I give him some leeway there for being in an unwinnable situation).

So we'd likely be trading multiple picks needed to fill many positions to add a player at a position we don't need.  Not interested.

(02-28-2019, 06:02 PM)NKURyan Wrote: You think the Cardinals are going to be able to get a first rounder for him? Because I can't see it happening, and it's the same thought process I had when the "Bengals are shopping John Ross" rumor was out there - what value do they have, really?

If the cost truly is a first rounder then yeah, I'd pass. But lower than that? I'm intrigued.

Rosen? Hard to say. IF a team liked him a lot...maybe.

He's only played 1 year and guys like Goff looked bad Year 1.

That said, I doubt we're interested in this.

I’d rather draft Jarrett Stidham in the 3rd.

(02-28-2019, 06:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Even if he never became a starter he would be a great value as a backup.  Arizona paid him about $11 million of his $17 million contract last year.  So he would only cost us about $2 million a year.

A lot of people don't realize how important the #2 QB can be.  If Andy is lost for the season it might not make any difference, but if he only misses a few weeks then the back up QB could be the difference between making the playoffs and not.

Agreed a 4m cap hit is cheap for a backup quarterback if they trade him the dead cap will be 8m. As you pointed put they have already paid most of the guaranteed money so there is no real loss for the Caridnals to hold onto him...and his trade value might go up down the line.

(02-28-2019, 08:41 PM)Au165 Wrote: I’d rather draft Jarrett Stidham in the 3rd.

I'm starting to like Stidham more and more I think he would be the perfect guy to sit behind Andy for a year or 2 and maybe take over.

(02-28-2019, 08:45 PM)Synric Wrote: Agreed a 4m cap hit is cheap for a backup quarterback if they trade him the dead cap will be 8m. As you pointed put they have already paid most of the guaranteed money so there is no real loss for the Caridnals to hold onto him...and his trade value might go up down the line.

Yeah...you don't give up on him after Year 1. You keep him and develop him.

Then IF he and Murray develop...you trade Rosen for a lot.

(02-28-2019, 05:45 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Ok, so first of all I have always been a big Andy Dalton supporter. I think he's a guy that you can win with in the NFL and I think he's overly criticized by many in the area. I think it's pretty ludicrous to consider taking a QB in first round (and did last year as well) with as many other glaring needs this team has. Andy Dalton should be the starting QB for the Bengals next year.

BUT...

The Arizona Cardinals seem eager to part with Rosen in order to take Kyler Murray #1 this year. Josh Rosen was a first round QB taken in a year filled to the brim with highly regarded QB talent - he went top 10 last year with the Cardinals moving up to grab him. Personally I don't think it's fair to call him a bust after one year playing for an awful team under an unproven (and promptly fired) head coach. There may very well be something there in my opinion... and you should be able to buy low in order to get him. No way can the Cardinals be expecting anyone to give them a first round pick for him, right? Maybe a team with a low pick in the first round, but how many of those teams need a QB? And even if, say, the Patriots wanted to groom him, will they even have that pick after the Kraft stuff is sorted out? And then instead of burning a 1st rounder on a QB you can maybe take the White kid at LB...

SO...

Why not try to grab a first round talent for non-first round picks? Talk to the Cardinals and if you can work it out, pull the trigger. Bring him in, get a guy with a high ceiling, and then sit him behind Dalton for a year giving him a chance to learn the NFL game and prepare himself for more fair shot than he ever got in Arizona. Two seasons from now (which is Dalton's contract year, I believe), you can give him every chance to win the job, and maybe he does just that and shows you that he's the QB of the future once he hits the field. Gotta figure he'd have a huge chip on his shoulder.

Thoughts? Yes, there are a lot of ifs and maybes there, but am I crazy to think that this is something the Bengals should at least kick the tires on?

I will freely admit to not having seen Rosen play all that often in college or for the Cardinals (though like I said, I give him some leeway there for being in an unwinnable situation).

Rosen for Ross, done deal. 

(02-28-2019, 06:43 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Definately wouldn't be against this, pretty good idea honestly. Rosen was about the most pro ready QB in that class besides Mayfield in my opinion too. He is smart and was accurate in college which is what Taylor says he needs in his QB. If we could get Rosen for a 2nd rounder i don't think it would be a bad idea but we would have to get atleast one Lineman in FA or it won't matter who the QB is. Whoever it is will need protection.

Agree, if we fill a hole or two in FA’s and can get him for a 2nd rounder I’d be all for it. Like others have said it’d be worth it even if he is just a quality backup. He was my favorite QB in the draft last year and if things go well could be our future franchise qb.

(02-28-2019, 09:51 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: Agree, if we fill a hole or two in FA’s and can get him for a 2nd rounder I’d be all for it. Like others have said it’d be worth it even if he is just a quality backup. He was my favorite QB in the draft last year and if things go well could be our future franchise qb.

Yeah, i liked Mayfield a touch better in that draft but he sure is a doosh as a Stain.

Rosen was my 2nd favorite QB in that draft followed by Rudolph. Never cared for Darnold and Allen was just too inaccurate. Great runner and a great arm Allen has but a QB needs to be accurate in the NFL. Rosen is accurate, i am with the OP on not being able to watch him last season though. The Cards were too bad to have many primetime games.

The Cardinals may regret whichever choice they make. I recall the Chicago Bears passing on drafting Aaron Rodgers because they already had Kyle Orton AND Rex Grossman, for example.

Meanwhile the Packers had a legit HOF QB and didn't feel like Rodgers was going to be a wasted pick...go figure.

(02-28-2019, 10:02 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The Cardinals may regret whichever choice they make. I recall the Chicago Bears passing on drafting Aaron Rodgers because they already had Kyle Orton AND Rex Grossman, for example.

I am sure Bears fans ***** about that all the time...

(02-28-2019, 10:04 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I am sure Bears fans ***** about that all the time...

Well I'm pretty sure they addressed a need by taking Cedric Benson instead of a QB they didn't need!

ARZ is in an unusual spot. Their HC said back when he was a college coach that if he had the first pick in the NFL draft he's take Kyler Murray. Dude had 0 idea at the time; he'd actually have the first pick in the NFL draft.

ARZ will definitely give up on Rosen if they feels Murray is the way to go. They gave up on their HC after 1 year.

As to the OP: I'd give our 2nd. Hell, I might give up our first for Rosen and ARZ's 2nd.

(02-28-2019, 10:08 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Well I'm pretty sure they addressed a need by taking Cedric Benson instead of a QB they didn't need!

Who needs that schlub lol

(02-28-2019, 05:45 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Ok, so first of all I have always been a big Andy Dalton supporter. I think he's a guy that you can win with in the NFL and I think he's overly criticized by many in the area. I think it's pretty ludicrous to consider taking a QB in first round (and did last year as well) with as many other glaring needs this team has. Andy Dalton should be the starting QB for the Bengals next year.

BUT...

The Arizona Cardinals seem eager to part with Rosen in order to take Kyler Murray #1 this year. Josh Rosen was a first round QB taken in a year filled to the brim with highly regarded QB talent - he went top 10 last year with the Cardinals moving up to grab him. Personally I don't think it's fair to call him a bust after one year playing for an awful team under an unproven (and promptly fired) head coach. There may very well be something there in my opinion... and you should be able to buy low in order to get him. No way can the Cardinals be expecting anyone to give them a first round pick for him, right? Maybe a team with a low pick in the first round, but how many of those teams need a QB? And even if, say, the Patriots wanted to groom him, will they even have that pick after the Kraft stuff is sorted out? And then instead of burning a 1st rounder on a QB you can maybe take the White kid at LB...

SO...

Why not try to grab a first round talent for non-first round picks? Talk to the Cardinals and if you can work it out, pull the trigger. Bring him in, get a guy with a high ceiling, and then sit him behind Dalton for a year giving him a chance to learn the NFL game and prepare himself for more fair shot than he ever got in Arizona. Two seasons from now (which is Dalton's contract year, I believe), you can give him every chance to win the job, and maybe he does just that and shows you that he's the QB of the future once he hits the field. Gotta figure he'd have a huge chip on his shoulder.

Thoughts? Yes, there are a lot of ifs and maybes there, but am I crazy to think that this is something the Bengals should at least kick the tires on?

I will freely admit to not having seen Rosen play all that often in college or for the Cardinals (though like I said, I give him some leeway there for being in an unwinnable situation).

John Ross for Josh Rosen? 

(02-28-2019, 10:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ARZ is in an unusual spot. Their HC said back when he was a college coach that if he had the first pick in the NFL draft he's take Kyler Murray. Dude had 0 idea at the time; he'd actually have the first pick in the NFL draft.

ARZ will definitely give up on Rosen if they feels Murray is the way to go. They gave up on their HC after 1 year.

As to the OP: I'd give our 2nd. Hell, I might give up our first for Rosen and ARZ's 2nd.

That'd be pretty wacky if they had 2 different HCs and 2 different top 10 QBs in the span of a year .

Bengals cannot afford to give up high level picks in the draft. They can find a back up QB in later rounds if necessary.

(02-28-2019, 08:48 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah...you don't give up on him after Year 1. You keep him and develop him.

Then IF he and Murray develop...you trade Rosen for a lot.

I don't know, man. I think it'd be pretty difficult to keep two first round QBs on the roster at the same time, especially when they're both top ten picks. Even if Arizona sets out to do it you'd think one of the two would be demanding a trade, and the fanbase would always be calling for whoever isn't playing if the guy who is goes out and struggles. How many teams are going to be willing to put up with that type of distraction on the off chance it pays off a year or two down the line?

As for the argument that the Bengals have more pressing needs than QB... I certainly agree, but Andy's contract doesn't last forever. What are you going to do?
1) Re-sign an older Dalton in a few years, probably at a much higher rate than he's currently signed for (based on the market)?
2) Roll the dice and draft a QB high the year Dalton leaves, possibly resulting in rookie struggles or a complete miss on the pick?
3) Take a QB after the first round in the draft, convince yourself that it might actually work out, only to realize later that they almost never do?
4) Plan for the future NOW and start working towards not having to do either #1, #2, or #3 if you don't have to.

...because as big of an Andy Dalton fan as I am (and I really am, I love the guy), I'm going with option #4. And, like others have pointed out, it gives you a viable backup option that the Bengals just don't have on the roster at the moment.

Nowhere have I said they should sell the farm for this. Nowhere have I said they should give up multiple picks. I think they'd be nuts to give up a first rounder unless they somehow ended up with an extra pick somehow. That said, the Bengals should at least look into what the Cardinals want and what they're actually being offered. If a few months go by and he ends up going for something stupid like a 3rd rounder, we're going to kick ourselves - especially if it's to the Pats or any of those other teams that always, always, ALWAYS make a killing on these deals.

(03-01-2019, 12:46 AM)NKURyan Wrote: As for the argument that the Bengals have more pressing needs than QB... I certainly agree, but Andy's contract doesn't last forever. What are you going to do?
1) Re-sign an older Dalton in a few years, probably at a much higher rate than he's currently signed for (based on the market)?
2) Roll the dice and draft a QB high the year Dalton leaves, possibly resulting in rookie struggles or a complete miss on the pick?
3) Take a QB after the first round in the draft, convince yourself that it might actually work out, only to realize later that they almost never do?
4) Plan for the future NOW and start working towards not having to do either #1, #2, or #3 if you don't have to.

...because as big of an Andy Dalton fan as I am (and I really am, I love the guy), I'm going with option #4. And, like others have pointed out, it gives you a viable backup option that the Bengals just don't have on the roster at the moment.

Nowhere have I said they should sell the farm for this. Nowhere have I said they should give up multiple picks. I think they'd be nuts to give up a first rounder unless they somehow ended up with an extra pick somehow. That said, the Bengals should at least look into what the Cardinals want and what they're actually being offered. If a few months go by and he ends up going for something stupid like a 3rd rounder, we're going to kick ourselves - especially if it's to the Pats or any of those other teams that always, always, ALWAYS make a killing on these deals.

I agree with your premise here i just think we have way too many holes to fill on this roster to give up a high draft pick for a backup qb. If we didnt have so many glaring needs i would be all for it.

Also, to address #2, the bengals are batting pretty well at picking qbs lately. Palmer then dalton in the second.