(03-01-2019, 10:13 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You'd think...but they had success last year...especially against us with Jackson.

You guys do remember that Kaep killed it with his legs his first year, but he steadily declined as teams figured out how to limit his running. Ironically, Kaep didn't really show signs of getting over this hump until his last year in the league. If Jackson can't figure out how to throw like a real QB, he will not be a starting QB in the next 2 years.

Arizona's situation was terrible. So terrible that the coach was fired after 1 season. I didn't watch Rosen a whole lot, but a rookie with the worst offensive line in the league, no WRs outside of a rookie and 36-year-old Larry Fitz, a shell of David Johnson and a coach that's unable to scheme for him is a recipe for failure. if we're not able to get one of the top QBs in this draft (if ZT wants one, that is) then I wouldn't be against offering a 2nd and trading Dalton to a team like Washington for a few mid-round picks to focus on OL.

People on this board will say the Bengals shouldn't bring in a new QB because there are more pressing needs, or because they think everyone has something against Dalton. KC probably had more pressing needs than QB and they still picked Mahomes. A lot of teams probably have more pressing needs than QB. But when you have an elite or a top 10 QB you can get away with having weak areas more so than you can with Dalton (good coaching helps too). If ZT turns on the tape and sees Rosen can be that guy, how can you be against it? The Bengals are in reboot mode anyway, Devin White and an OT aren't going to make this team a super bowl contender overnight.

(03-02-2019, 01:08 PM)Whodey614 Wrote: Arizona's situation was terrible. So terrible that the coach was fired after 1 season. I didn't watch Rosen a whole lot, but a rookie with the worst offensive line in the league, no WRs outside of a rookie and 36-year-old Larry Fitz, a shell of David Johnson and a coach that's unable to scheme for him is a recipe for failure. if we're not able to get one of the top QBs in this draft (if ZT wants one, that is) then I wouldn't be against offering a 2nd and trading Dalton to a team like Washington for a few mid-round picks to focus on OL.

People on this board will say the Bengals shouldn't bring in a new QB because there are more pressing needs, or because they think everyone has something against Dalton. KC probably had more pressing needs than QB and they still picked Mahomes. A lot of teams probably have more pressing needs than QB. But when you have an elite or a top 10 QB you can get away with having weak areas more so than you can with Dalton (good coaching helps too). If ZT turns on the tape and sees Rosen can be that guy, how can you be against it? The Bengals are in reboot mode anyway, Devin White and an OT aren't going to make this team a super bowl contender overnight.

Being a  So Cal native, I watched Rosen alot in college and the kid can sling it and is accurate... actually talent wise he reminds me alot of Goff even somewhat his personality (good or bad thing?)
I question his leadership skills though...he is not a not  a Boomer or Brett Farve type.....more like a or Brady (quiet and lets his play do the talking).
I would think a 2nd rounder with some other sweeteners may be worth it...we all know what we have with Dalton.

(03-01-2019, 10:13 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You'd think...but they had success last year...especially against us with Jackson.

He got over 60% of his rushing yards on the very first drive of the game (that shouldn't have ended with no points), when plays couldn't be called properly, due to communication issues.

He had a VERY ho-hum game against us.

IDK what he's worth in trade, but I liked him a lot among last year's qb crop. He was rated higher than any in the 2019 class. Not saying it should be the Bengals, but it's entirely possible that someone gets a franchise qb if Arizona decides they want to rid themselves of him. I'd love to have the guy if we had the line in place to keep him upright.

(03-03-2019, 01:42 AM)samhain Wrote: IDK what he's worth in trade, but I liked him a lot among last year's qb crop.  He was rated higher than any in the 2019 class.  Not saying it should be the Bengals, but it's entirely possible that someone gets a franchise qb if Arizona decides they want to rid themselves of him.  I'd love to have the guy if we had the line in place to keep him upright.

I think atleast some teams will feel that way.

QB is a tough position. If he doesn't produce in Year 1 people call them a bust. It takes several years sometimes to develop if they ever do.

(02-28-2019, 06:02 PM)NKURyan Wrote: You think the Cardinals are going to be able to get a first rounder for him? Because I can't see it happening, and it's the same thought process I had when the "Bengals are shopping John Ross" rumor was out there - what value do they have, really?

If the cost truly is a first rounder then yeah, I'd pass. But lower than that? I'm intrigued.

This. Especially for a 3rd rounder. We're probably going to spend a pick on a QB somewhere anyway.

(02-28-2019, 07:00 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I saw a few of their games and to be honest, wasn't really impressed by him. I will admit though he pretty much was running for his life behind their line.

Sounds familiar. I guess better coaching and o-line play would help him. It'd also help our current guy though.

(02-28-2019, 07:45 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: So we'd likely be trading multiple picks needed to fill many positions to add a player at a position we don't need.  Not interested.

Why do you assume multiple picks? ...and is a 3rd and 6th too much? How often does our 6th even pan out?

(02-28-2019, 09:27 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: Rosen for Ross, done deal. 

(02-28-2019, 10:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ARZ is in an unusual spot. Their HC said back when he was a college coach that if he had the first pick in the NFL draft he's take Kyler Murray. Dude had 0 idea at the time; he'd actually have the first pick in the NFL draft.

ARZ will definitely give up on Rosen if they feels Murray is the way to go. They gave up on their HC after 1 year.

As to the OP: I'd give our 2nd. Hell, I might give up our first for Rosen and ARZ's 2nd.

True, but if the Cards really thought Rosen had any serious potential, someone in that organization would be fighting Kingsbury on this, and if they're willing to fire a HC after 1 season, how much power does Kingsbury hold? 

I'd like Rosen as a backup with (I guess) potential, but offering up the 11th overall pick for Rosen and a 2nd would be way too much IMO. We have to keep in mind that Rosen did look awful and his team is trying to trade him after only 1 year.

(03-02-2019, 01:08 PM)Whodey614 Wrote:  KC probably had more pressing needs than QB and they still picked Mahomes. A lot of teams probably have more pressing needs than QB. But when you have an elite or a top 10 QB you can get away with having weak areas more so than you can with Dalton (good coaching helps too). If ZT turns on the tape and sees Rosen can be that guy, how can you be against it? The Bengals are in reboot mode anyway, Devin White and an OT aren't going to make this team a super bowl contender overnight.

Can we please stop bringing up Mahomes like he was the only QB drafted in the first round recently?  It sure is easy to pick out the great QBs in the draft after they have played a couple of years.

But the reality is that of the 25 QBs drafted in the firrst round since we got Dalton in 2011 only FIVE have a better career passer rating than Andy.

If the Cards do trade Rosen they can not ask for much in return. There has to be something bad wrong with a QB to trade him away after just one season.

(03-03-2019, 12:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If the Cards do trade Rosen they can not ask for much in return.  There has to be something bad wrong with a QB to trade him away after just one season.

Or you can keep Akili Smith on the bench forever and retire him as a Bengal. 

(03-03-2019, 12:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Can we please stop bringing up Mahomes like he was the only QB drafted in the first round recently?  It sure is easy to pick out the great QBs in the draft after they have played a couple of years.

But the reality is that of the 25 QBs drafted in the firrst round since we got Dalton in 2011 only FIVE have a better career passer rating than Andy.

SEVEN off the top of my head

Luck
Mariota
Wentz
Goff
Mayfield
Mahomes
Watson

(03-03-2019, 12:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Can we please stop bringing up Mahomes like he was the only QB drafted in the first round recently?  It sure is easy to pick out the great QBs in the draft after they have played a couple of years.

But the reality is that of the 25 QBs drafted in the first round since we got Dalton in 2011 only FIVE have a better career passer rating than Andy.

Again, this isn't me hating on Dalton or wanting him gone immediately. I bring up Mahomes cause the Chiefs were ahead of the curve and drafted him even though they could've just kept adding around Alex Smith cause he was a proven, solid QB and they were comfortable with him. Just like how people on here say we don't need QB and we should keep drafting to help Dalton even they've done that the last 2 years and it failed. The Chiefs probably needed CB or LB but still took him cause they realized that just having a solid QB isn't enough and if you can add a premium talent, there's no reason not to do it.

Now I'm not saying that Rosen or any QB prospect in the draft is Mahomes. It helps that he already had a good team and a great coaching staff to go with it. Bengals have a lot of moves to make before they're on the Chiefs level as we saw last season. I'm just saying that the Bengals are already rebuilding and the idea that "We draft Devin White, stud OL that'll help Dalton return to 2015, TE, and hit on every 6th round pick and we're good again" is delusional. Maybe the Bengals go out on and spend top dollar on an OL and LB but they haven't given us a reason to expect that. At best we'll retain 3-4 of our guys, sign a couple of guys on day 2-3 of FA and draft Devin White that will be advertised as a "win-now move" like Price was last season when they had the Bama LB and Lamar in their hands.

(03-03-2019, 12:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: SEVEN off the top of my head

Luck
Mariota
Wentz
Goff
Mayfield
Mahomes
Watson

Okay 7 out of 25.  Looks like some numbers have changed a little since I did that research back during the season.

Thanks for correcting me but it does not change my original point.  Seven out of 25 is still short odds.  Too many people ignore this when they say "Just trade Andy and draft a better QB."

(03-03-2019, 01:00 PM)Whodey614 Wrote: Again, this isn't me hating on Dalton or wanting him gone immediately. I bring up Mahomes cause the Chiefs were ahead of the curve and drafted him even though they could've just kept adding around Alex Smith cause he was a proven, solid QB and they were comfortable with him. Just like how people on here say we don't need QB and we should keep drafting to help Dalton even they've done that the last 2 years and it failed. The Chiefs probably needed CB or LB but still took him cause they realized that just having a solid QB isn't enough and if you can add a premium talent, there's no reason not to do it.

I know why you brought up Mahomes.  It is because he is one of the few that ended up being better than Dalton.  

The fact is that the Chiefs were a 12 win team with a solid O-line and plenty of weapons on offense when they drafted Mahomes.  It worked out great for them, but if you look around the league it is a very rare move.  I guarantee that most other teams will continue to build around valuable veteran QBs instead of drafting a QB in the first round.

Kurt Warner who follows the Cardinals more than almost anyone, still lives out there, says he thinks Rosen is worth a 3rd. That right there confirms what I saw watching him last season, the shininess of what could be has worn off him a bit.

I'd happy give up a 3rd for him. That's about as high as I'd go, however.

I actually did watch a lot of Rosen last year. I had NFL Sunday Ticket and was unfortunate enough to have had David Johnson on my money-league FFL team. So I've seen plenty of the guy.

I don't like him and I don't want him here. Not for anything over a third rounder. He's got a good enough arm, not great - but good. He's slow on all his reads, which is youth (for the most part) and he's not mobile. I never once saw the guy make a throw that got my attention. Not even once.

Furthermore, his personality and his highly questionable leadership skills are well documented. He comes from a rich family, has an attitude of entitlement and is very outspoken. He was not well-liked by his mates at UCLA. No idea how well-received he was in Arizona, but this is not a guy who is going to endear himself to the hard-working, Pete Rose Charlie Hustle-loving midwesterners in Porkopolis.

And it can't be overstated - Kingsbury is being brought in for his offensive acumen and ostensibly his ability spot QB talent and develop it. If he's already cutting bait with Rosen, that should tell you volumes more than any of my opinions should.

Stay away.

If and it's a big IF the Bengals are active enough in free agency ? I could see giving up a 3rd for him. A lot of his salary has already been paid by Cardinals. He's worth taking a flyer on and if he flops you haven't lost much. I don't know if I'd go a 2nd or not ? We have so many needs !

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2019/3/4/18248576/bengals-cardinals-josh-rosen-trade-rumors-nfl-news

(03-03-2019, 12:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If the Cards do trade Rosen they can not ask for much in return.  There has to be something bad wrong with a QB to trade him away after just one season.

TBH I look it at it more as the Cardinals potentially making a mistake than I do it being any real indication of Rosen's ability. It could all just be the standard smoke-and-mirrors draft strategy to get people to think they're all in on Murray, too. All I'm saying is that if I'm the Bengals, I'm looking into it.

(02-28-2019, 07:36 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So, the Cardinals spend a 1st round pick on the guy, and then are ready to kick him to the curb after just one season, and they expect to get a 1st round pick for him??

That makes no sense at all.

It only makes sense if you hire a completely new staff and they want to run an offense that needs to guy like Murray.

I gotta hand it to them, they aren't screwing around.  They want to run a certain system and they are going to get the most important piece.

That being said, there is no way I would take Murray if I was them, but more power to them.

IF the rumors are true, and all they want is a 3rd rounder, you HAVE to call and make that deal.  Ask most of the draft experts and they feel that Rosen would be the #1 QB in this class.  I loved Rosen coming out and would love to have him.