(09-24-2015, 04:26 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Personally... and this is all speculation.... I think Palmer leaving hurt Mike Brown emotionally. He wanted to know why. He wanted to know what he was doing that forced his prize player away from him. I think through this entire process he realized that he had too much control over the team. How he was running the team hadn't been working, so he had two choices.

1) Fire Marvin, hire a new coach, and keep on the same path, hoping for different results.
2) Consult with Marvin on how to fix the situation..... what WAS the problem?

Marvin, being experienced as he is, decided, look, here are things we need to change to make our players happier here, and to improve the outlook of this team. Things have been different since then certainly. The team has gotten better, and situations like JJo and CPalmer seem to be things of the past. They gave more control to individuals like Katie Blackburn who have done a stern job of getting contracts signed for a decent price and in a timely manner. Something that hasn't always been done efficiently in the past, from my knowledge.

Now again, after 4 years of getting to the playoffs and not reaching the goal, Mike Brown & Marvin have realized again they need to change things. Much like Coughlin in NY, I think Marvin has lightened up a little. I think he has changed his philosophy a little bit (much like coughlin did before the superbowl) in the hopes of getting us over the hump. Marvin says he evaluated himself 4 years ago, and has done so again before this season. Hopefully this reevaluation Is the one that turns the Bengals into a powerhouse.



This could all be hypothetical bullshit, or it could be what has happened behind doors. The main point being, Mike Brown was hurt by Carson Palmer, and things have changed since then.

Are you really going to attribute the change to Carson leaving?  The most noticeable change is we have drafted and signed better players.  If Carson helped in any way, it was by the team getting an extra 1st and 2nd round picks for his trade.  

(09-24-2015, 04:35 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Are you really going to attribute the change to Carson leaving?  The most noticeable change is we have drafted and signed better players.  If Carson helped in any way, it was by the team getting an extra 1st and 2nd round picks for his trade.  

Ya, when your franchise QB leaves because he doesn't want to be around your program anymore, you have to take a look at yourself and evaluate what went wrong. So in that sense, ya I attribute it to Carson leaving.

(09-24-2015, 04:51 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Ya, when your franchise QB leaves because he doesn't want to be around your program anymore, you have to take a look at yourself and evaluate what went wrong. So in that sense, ya I attribute it to Carson leaving.

Well it didn't take long, considering they made the playoffs the same year.  I'm sure that was it.  

(09-24-2015, 05:08 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Well it didn't take long, considering they made the playoffs the same year.  I'm sure that was it.  

Seems like you found the correlation

(09-22-2015, 02:59 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: "intricacies" 

Meh, blame it on the spell check!

(09-24-2015, 09:06 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: You're trying to dress this up but it's not working.  He quit on the team.  Then he went to the Raiders and started crying there.   You know who held the Bengals together after that? Andrew Whitworth.  He's the reason the Bengals are where they are.  That's why Whit is my favorite player.

No, I'm telling the truth and people who are able to remove their biases from the situation agree with me.  You say Carson is some crybaby who is a quitter and not a leader and I have an entire NFL organization in the desert that would laugh at you.  You can spend the rest of your life thinking Carson is just a lilly-livered quitter, just don't expect everyone to refuse to look at the situation like you.

(09-24-2015, 01:42 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Besides, CP showed (again) that he wasn't a team player in Oakland when he refused a pay cut for the last year of his deal, knowing full well that the Raiders would release him. He forced their hand as well.

How many franchise QB's have forced their way out of one franchise...let alone two?

Carson restructured his contract in Oakland and then going into year 3 they wanted to renege on said contract and reduce his pay and remove guarantees and he said no thanks.  The Raiders wanted to change the terms to which they agreed and he started fielding trade offers in response.

What's so crazy about that?  He ended up getting more money from a better franchise that wasn't in rebuild mode.  This all seems pretty logical to me, but I have to admit I never had my boss say "Hey Nate, we're going to start paying you 65% of your former salary, ok?" 

Anyways, the Bengals don't miss Carson and Carson doesn't miss the Bengals. You want us to consider Carson a fool because the Bengals made the playoffs since he left, but if the Cardinals make a legit push before the Bengals do are you going to admit Carson was "right?" What does it matter. Carson is a quitter, fine. End of story. You "win" but you'd better call those fools in AZ who think that he is a leader and who elected him team captain that they are idiots.

You think Bruce Arians is worried Carson is going to turn on him? No, because Arians isn't quite the big ol wet noodle that Marvin is. Bah, ok no more, you win, Carson is a big ol baby and he throws 10 interceptions a game and he's the reason this team hasn't won a thing in 25 years and we are a dynasty now that we can make the playoffs and fall flat 4 times in a row. Did I miss anything?

(09-24-2015, 09:16 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Carson restructured his contract in Oakland and then going into year 3 they wanted to renege on said contract and reduce his pay and remove guarantees and he said no thanks.  The Raiders wanted to change the terms to which they agreed and he started fielding trade offers in response.

What's so crazy about that?  He ended up getting more money from a better franchise that wasn't in rebuild mode.  This all seems pretty logical to me, but I have to admit I never had my boss say "Hey Nate, we're going to start paying you 65% of your former salary, ok?" 

Anyways, the Bengals don't miss Carson and Carson doesn't miss the Bengals.  You want us to consider Carson a fool because the Bengals made the playoffs since he left, but if the Cardinals make a legit push before the Bengals do are you going to admit Carson was "right?"  What does it matter.  Carson is a quitter, fine.  End of story.  You "win" but you'd better call those fools in AZ who think that he is a leader and who elected him team captain that they are idiots.

You think Bruce Arians is worried Carson is going to turn on him?  No, because Arians isn't quite the big ol wet noodle that Marvin is.  Bah, ok no more, you win, Carson is a big ol baby and he throws 10 interceptions a game and he's the reason this team hasn't won a thing in 25 years and we are a dynasty now that we can make the playoffs and fall flat 4 times in a row.  Did I miss anything?

What has Carson won?

(09-24-2015, 09:10 PM)Nately120 Wrote: No, I'm telling the truth and people who are able to remove their biases from the situation agree with me.  You say Carson is some crybaby who is a quitter and not a leader and I have an entire NFL organization in the desert that would laugh at you.  You can spend the rest of your life thinking Carson is just a lilly-livered quitter, just don't expect everyone to refuse to look at the situation like you.

As I tell my supervisors when they are dealing with people/things on the floor.  "Remove the emotions".  Whether you like the person, hate them or they pissed you off.  Step back, remove the emotions so the decisions or how you deal with a situation isn't being driven by your personal emotions.

(09-24-2015, 09:32 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: What has Carson won?

The same things as this team without him?

(09-24-2015, 09:59 PM)crispy Wrote: The same things as this team without him?

Not true.  The Bengals have 4 straight "Participant" trophies that I'm sure keep Carson up at night simply seething with rage and lament.  Oh well, I'm sure the fact that he is now playing for a HC and owner he doesn't absolutely hate helps soothe that butthurt.

(09-25-2015, 01:10 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Not true.  The Bengals have 4 straight "Participant" trophies that I'm sure keep Carson up at night simply seething with rage and lament.  Oh well, I'm sure the fact that he is now playing for a HC and owner he doesn't absolutely hate helps soothe that butthurt.

You guys seem pretty "butthurt" about a franchise you claim to be fans of.  

Carson really showed us didn't he?

(09-25-2015, 08:25 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: You guys seem pretty "butthurt" about a franchise you claim to be fans of.  

Carson really showed us didn't he?

I have a great story that you may enjoy.

So, how about this. There was this guy, he was having a conversation with another Bengals' fan about Carson Palmer. Then, out of nowhere, this OTHER guy comes in the discussion that he wasn't involved in previously, and he makes this condescending comment about Carson! Okay, that's pretty normal, that happens. Well, then he claims that he has forgotten about him and that he doesn't care and isn't upset at all that he's gone. Sounds good, right? Well, PLOT TWIST! The guy posts about 3,571,284,712,387 times in a row, CLEARLY upset while making post after post that he's not butthurt at all by it and mentioning that he has forgotten about Carson. Another poster says "hey man, maybe you do care about Carson a bit too much since you can't help but post about him dozens of times and can't just let this go". You'd think the guy would understand and prove that he honestly doesn't care by just leaving the conversation right there, right? NOPE! Another dozen posts over the course of another day, no end in sight, apparently "I don't care about Carson and I've forgotten about him" really means "I care a lot about Carson and I'll never forget him and I can't stop talking about him".

Whaaaaaaaaaaaat. Isn't that crazy?? Thought you may have liked that one, pretty solid stuff.

(09-25-2015, 08:49 AM)djs7685 Wrote: I have a great story that you may enjoy.

So, how about this. There was this guy, he was having a conversation with another Bengals' fan about Carson Palmer. Then, out of nowhere, this OTHER guy comes in the discussion that he wasn't involved in previously, and he makes this condescending comment about Carson! Okay, that's pretty normal, that happens. Well, then he claims that he has forgotten about him and that he doesn't care and isn't upset at all that he's gone. Sounds good, right? Well, PLOT TWIST! The guy posts about 3,571,284,712,387 times in a row, CLEARLY upset while making post after post that he's not butthurt at all by it and mentioning that he has forgotten about Carson. Another poster says "hey man, maybe you do care about Carson a bit too much since you can't help but post about him dozens of times and can't just let this go". You'd think the guy would understand and prove that he honestly doesn't care by just leaving the conversation right there, right? NOPE! Another dozen posts over the course of another day, no end in sight, apparently "I don't care about Carson and I've forgotten about him" really means "I care a lot about Carson and I'll never forget him and I can't stop talking about him".

Whaaaaaaaaaaaat. Isn't that crazy?? Thought you may have liked that one, pretty solid stuff.

I have long since gotten over Carson.  Wasn't so hard to do considering the 4 winning seasons since his departure.  Something that never occurred when he played here.  On the other hand, on these boards I have to deal with what appears to be some self-loathing fans who go out of their way to defend guys who quit on the team, while bashing those who stayed around and made things better.  

It comes as no surprise those who would come to his defense.  

(09-25-2015, 09:29 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: I have long since gotten over Carson.  Wasn't so hard to do considering the 4 winning seasons since his departure.  Something that never occurred when he played here.  On the other hand, on these boards I have to deal with what appears to be some self-loathing fans who go out of their way to defend guys who quit on the team, while bashing those who stayed around and made things better.  

It comes as no surprise those who would come to his defense.  

Listen, I'd probably be a crybaby like you and the others that constantly have to call him a quitter if the Bengals have been terrible over the last 4 years. I'd more than likely be right with you.

BUT

I was a huge fan of Palmer when he was in Cincinnati, and he never did anything to directly hurt my feelings. I was initially mad that one of my favorite players left the team, but I also respected where he was coming from, as I did with Jonathan Joseph and the others before them. I always liked Carson as a QB, so the fact that we've been competitive with a new QB and improved team just makes it so easy for me to love the Bengals while still rooting for Carson to succeed except when he plays against our team. What's such a big deal about that? Obviously something, or else you wouldn't STILL be going on and on and on about this.

You can keep claiming you've forgotten and that you don't care, but you wouldn't remain in this discussion if you were being honest about that. You care. Carson hurt you deeply. They should make a local hotline for that with all of the butthurt surrounding Palmer on these boards and in the city of Cincinnati in general.

(09-25-2015, 09:44 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Listen, I'd probably be a crybaby like you and the others that constantly have to call him a quitter if the Bengals have been terrible over the last 4 years. I'd more than likely be right with you.

BUT

I was a huge fan of Palmer when he was in Cincinnati, and he never did anything to directly hurt my feelings. I was initially mad that one of my favorite players left the team, but I also respected where he was coming from, as I did with Jonathan Joseph and the others before them. I always liked Carson as a QB, so the fact that we've been competitive with a new QB and improved team just makes it so easy for me to love the Bengals while still rooting for Carson to succeed except when he plays against our team. What's such a big deal about that? Obviously something, or else you wouldn't STILL be going on and on and on about this.

You can keep claiming you've forgotten and that you don't care, but you wouldn't remain in this discussion if you were being honest about that. You care. Carson hurt you deeply. They should make a local hotline for that with all of the butthurt surrounding Palmer on these boards and in the city of Cincinnati in general.

The "big deal" was the fact that HE QUIT.  Last I checked, J. Joe was a FA who had every right to sign wherever he wanted to.  Carson signed an extension with a guy he supposedly didn't like to play for a coach he apparently didn't like.  That's the difference between the two situations.  Oh, and the fact that he left after a 4-12 season.  Going got tough, and Carson got going.

And again, I have less a problem with Carson than Bengals fans who apologize for him.  I understand his logic, I'm baffled by yours.   

(09-25-2015, 10:24 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: The "big deal" was the fact that HE QUIT.  Last I checked, J. Joe was a FA who had every right to sign wherever he wanted to.  Carson signed an extension with a guy he supposedly didn't like to play for a coach he apparently didn't like.  That's the difference between the two situations.  Oh, and the fact that he left after a 4-12 season.  Going got tough, and Carson got going.

And again, I have less a problem with Carson than Bengals fans who apologize for him.  I understand his logic, I'm baffled by yours.   

The fact that I'm not crying and butthurt over Carson leaving is because I understand his logic.

So you claim you understand his logic but you're baffled by mine, though my logic is just agreeing with Carson's logic.

I'm not surprised that you're talking in circles now. Carson has hurt you this much, it's very sad that you can't let go. You say you don't care, but again, here you are. Keep it going, you're doing a great job of "not caring".

(09-25-2015, 10:27 AM)djs7685 Wrote: The fact that I'm not crying and butthurt over Carson leaving is because I understand his logic.

So you claim you understand his logic but you're baffled by mine, though my logic is just agreeing with Carson's logic.

I'm not surprised that you're talking in circles now. Carson has hurt you this much, it's very sad that you can't let go. You say you don't care, but again, here you are. Keep it going, you're doing a great job of "not caring".

Of course you understand his logic:  Carson wasn't the problem, the owner and the coach was.  

Except I completely disagree.  

(09-25-2015, 10:24 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: I understand his logic, I'm baffled by yours.   

(09-25-2015, 10:37 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Of course you understand his logic:  Carson wasn't the problem, the owner and the coach was.  


Except I completely disagree.  

Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, okay. Your 25th post in 1 thread on the matter still doesn't say "I don't care about Carson anymore" very well. Keep going and maybe you'll convince someone that you don't care soon.

(09-25-2015, 10:50 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, okay. Your 25th post in 1 thread on the matter still doesn't say "I don't care about Carson anymore" very well. Keep going and maybe you'll convince someone that you don't care soon.

We know you do though.  I hope he really performs well when he plays us.  Carson's a swell guy.