I'm not so sure Murray is properly classified as a gimmicky pick anymore.

Word is Da Gruden Boyz both want him, and Westside Jon Da Don, with all his picks and Oakland skreet cred, has the ammo to move up for him. Doubtful Fat Jay has the means to do so.

(03-05-2019, 05:12 PM)Whatever Wrote:
The problem is your 31 neighbors see you fogging for mosquitoes every time you take that 40k car out of the garage.  Enough film on Rosen exists for everyone to know he sucks.  I mean, he had a 66 QBR last year.  By comparison, Driskel had an 82.  That first round pick Arizona spent is just sunk cost at this point.  Everyone knows he's not worth what they paid.

So, a rookie going to one of the worst teams with a terrible offensive line is a good measuring tool?

He wasn't terrible last year.  I lean more on his college film than his one year in the NFL.  If you thought he was a top QB last year, then you give up a 3rd or even a late 2nd every day to get him.  His contract is great as his cap hit is minimal.

(03-06-2019, 04:01 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Yeah, and again I'm not going to bat for Rosen so much as acting like a new, possibly over-eager HC showing up and tossing the last regime's QB aside for his own gimmicky pick isn't the best reason to assume Rosen is a worthless bust.  Stuff like this happens, and I can see a savvy team buying low on Rosen if the Cardinals are really as willing to move him for the sake of getting rid of him as it seems.

Stuff like this has happened in football before.  Josh McDaniels barely warmed up his HC chair in Denver and he wanted Jay Cutler out of there because he was obsessed with Matt Cassel and Tim Tebow.  Cutler isn't the greatest QB ever, but he was better than the QBs the new guy just "had to have."  New HC's like to draft QBs or dig up their own guys, which is why if ZT actually wanted to bring in Tannehill and draft a rookie QB I wouldn't instantly assume that Dalton is a crap QB that no one wants.

I could see a scenario where the Cards draft Murray and toss Rosen to the Patriots for a late 2nd round pick and it will be hailed as the savvy Pats preying on a rookie HC and desperate GM.

I understand I would let Taylor do his thing. If he wants Rosen you give it to him. You hired this guy for a reason because you believed in him and his plan if you doubt his decisions then why did you hire him. They already let him chose his own staff it would be dumb to tell him what players he can and can’t have. If you believe in Taylor you give him evey chance to succeed and are all in versus riding the fence and going half way in. If things don’t work out at least you know it was on the coach versus wondering did we give him enough leeway to implement his plan. Things like forcing coaches like Aleaxnader be on the staff even if your coach dosent want him.

(03-06-2019, 04:21 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: So, a rookie going to one of the worst teams with a terrible offensive line is a good measuring tool?

He wasn't terrible last year.  I lean more on his college film than his one year in the NFL.  If you thought he was a top QB last year, then you give up a 3rd or even a late 2nd every day to get him.  His contract is great as his cap hit is minimal.

The only QB last year that had 100 attempts and a worse QBR than Rosen last year was Josh McCown.  He was terrible last year.  I don't know where people get that he wasn't from.  He needs to make significant leaps just to be considered a solid backup.

90 out of 100 kids are graded wrong coming into the NFL.  If they weren't, the draft wouldn't be a crap shoot.  Every QB that gets drafted has good college tape.  If they didn't, they wouldn't be drafted as a QB.  They'd get moved to WR.  

The thing that should worry you about Rosen is essentially Kingsbury looked at him and determined that Rosen was going to cost him his job before he could fix all the issues.  He's so bad that the Cards are willing to pass on studs like Bosa and Williams who are about as much of a sure thing as you can get in the draft to play the QB lottery again.

(03-06-2019, 04:16 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: I'm not so sure Murray is properly classified as a gimmicky pick anymore.

Word is Da Gruden Boyz both want him, and Westside Jon Da Don, with all his picks and Oakland skreet cred, has the ammo to move up for him. Doubtful Fat Jay has the means to do so.

In my book Murray is a huge gamble, particularly taken #1 and the trading of the current starter without any proof he'll produce. Murray could well be the next Ryan Leaf or he could be the next star.

KC waited a year before trading Alex Smith. They made Mahomes earn the starting job before handing him the reins.

 

Have we really gotten 11 pages out of Josh Freakin' Rosen?

(03-06-2019, 04:16 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: I'm not so sure Murray is properly classified as a gimmicky pick anymore.

Word is Da Gruden Boyz both want him, and Westside Jon Da Don, with all his picks and Oakland skreet cred, has the ammo to move up for him. Doubtful Fat Jay has the means to do so.

Yeah they are going to dangle the carrot and see just what their options are. They will get probably a first and second at least. If Murray's pro day at Oklahoma goes good , the sky is the limit. 

(03-06-2019, 08:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Have we really gotten 11 pages out of Josh Freakin' Rosen?

Lol my exact thoughts as I opened this thread. Josh Rosen is not the answer. 

(03-06-2019, 02:42 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Interesting how we have a thread concluding that Rosen is a bust after 1 year on the same board where we are excited about John Ross finally getting a chance to succeed 

Ross has shown flashes, but has a lot of work to do.  However, it doesn't make sense to trade him because you're probably going to get more out of him by letting him develop than you are out of the day 3 pick you're likely to get for him.  He's a proven red zone threat, if nothing else.

In Rosen's case, we're talking about giving up a day 2 pick on a reclamation project.  We're probably better off drafting a QB in 2 or 3 than trying to fix Rosen.  If you want to deal a 5 or 6 for him and let him fight Driskel for the #2 job, fine.  

(03-07-2019, 11:45 AM)Whatever Wrote: Ross has shown flashes, but has a lot of work to do.  However, it doesn't make sense to trade him because you're probably going to get more out of him by letting him develop than you are out of the day 3 pick you're likely to get for him.  He's a proven red zone threat, if nothing else.

In Rosen's case, we're talking about giving up a day 2 pick on a reclamation project.  We're probably better off drafting a QB in 2 or 3 than trying to fix Rosen.  If you want to deal a 5 or 6 for him and let him fight Driskel for the #2 job, fine.  

I'm not saying we should get Rosen or get rid of Ross...it's just funny how one top 10 pick is finally going to get his chance to develop in his 3rd year and the other already needs to be "reclaimed" for a 5th round pick after a single year.


Also, the idea of Rosen fighting Driskel for a backup spot is a laugh.  Did you see how terrible the Cardinals looked with Sam Bradford and Mike Glennon starting?  I can see why people don't like Rosen, but the guy played less than one season on a lousy team with a one year HC and he's supposedly a backup QB for life now?  Ehh...I don't buy it and I'm not even sure the Cardinals are going to move on from him.

Then again, the Cardinals haven't had a good QB under the age of 30 since they drafted Neil Lomax.

(03-06-2019, 04:21 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: So, a rookie going to one of the worst teams with a terrible offensive line is a good measuring tool?

It's just like how this board makes excuses for Dalton not being able to be more than average on a good day with a bad offensive line in his 8th year yet we can't give a rookie a pass.

(03-07-2019, 01:35 PM)Whodey614 Wrote: It's just like how this board makes excuses for Dalton not being able to be more than average on a good day with a bad offensive line in his 8th year yet we can't give a rookie a pass.

I didn't pay much attention to the Cardinals last year, but I do recall them having what looked like an historically bad offense with Bradford playing.  For some reason we are OK with blaming Marvin/Zampese/PA/Austin/Lazor for making entire seasons worthless, but not with the notion that Rosen might not be an insa-bust because Steve Wilks, Byron Lewftwich, and Mike McCoy (all them let go during the year or after it) were season-killing coaches.

So the 2nd HC and 3rd OC for Ross will finally give him a shot to succeed, but we don't need to see what Rosen can do with a coaching staff that isn't gone in an instant before we pronounce his career dead.  Again, I'm not sold on Rosen, but that seems a bit unfair.

(03-07-2019, 01:54 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I didn't pay much attention to the Cardinals last year, but I do recall them having what looked like an historically bad offense with Bradford playing.  For some reason we are OK with blaming Marvin/Zampese/PA/Austin/Lazor for making entire seasons worthless, but not with the notion that Rosen might not be an insa-bust because Steve Wilks, Byron Lewftwich, and Mike McCoy (all them let go during the year or after it) were season-killing coaches.

So the 2nd HC and 3rd OC for Ross will finally give him a shot to succeed, but we don't need to see what Rosen can do with a coaching staff that isn't gone in an instant before we pronounce his career dead.  Again, I'm not sold on Rosen, but that seems a bit unfair.

Agreed. And I am not high on Rosen at all but if you use bad coaching to excuse bad play here, you should certainly be willing to consider it in Arizona as well.

(03-07-2019, 01:54 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I didn't pay much attention to the Cardinals last year, but I do recall them having what looked like an historically bad offense with Bradford playing.  For some reason we are OK with blaming Marvin/Zampese/PA/Austin/Lazor for making entire seasons worthless, but not with the notion that Rosen might not be an insa-bust because Steve Wilks, Byron Lewftwich, and Mike McCoy (all them let go during the year or after it) were season-killing coaches.

So the 2nd HC and 3rd OC for Ross will finally give him a shot to succeed, but we don't need to see what Rosen can do with a coaching staff that isn't gone in an instant before we pronounce his career dead.  Again, I'm not sold on Rosen, but that seems a bit unfair.

Exactly. I never suggested that Rosen is the answer at all but seems really unfair to hold him to high standards because he was drafted in a shitty situation with a dysfunctional front office yet we are quick to point out everything that went wrong because Mike Brown runs the team or because Marvin didn't give Auden Tate enough snaps. FWIW, I think Arizona ends up holding onto Rosen and they'll trade down from the 1st pick.

(03-07-2019, 01:35 PM)Whodey614 Wrote: It's just like how this board makes excuses for Dalton not being able to be more than average on a good day with a bad offensive line in his 8th year yet we can't give a rookie a pass.

I could easily flip that and say it's funny how the pro-Rosen people are saying "but his line was awful!"

Yet over the last 3 years it's been "the line is no excuse" when it comes to Dalton.

Even though he's never come close to being as bad as Rosen was last year.

(03-07-2019, 06:53 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I could easily flip that and say it's funny how the pro-Rosen people are saying "but his line was awful!"

Yet over the last 3 years it's been "the line is no excuse" when it comes to Dalton.

Even though he's never come close to being as bad as Rosen was last year.

3 years ago he had Whitworth, Boling, Zietler not to shabby.

(03-07-2019, 07:58 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: 3 years ago he had Whitworth, Boling, Zietler not to shabby.

And Jefro's man in his face constantly.

Why are we talking about Rosen, when we have Dalton? Just enough already. We aren't picking him up and wherever Rosen goes we'll get to see who was wrong and who was right. And by the way, the guys a total bust.

(03-07-2019, 08:35 PM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Why are we talking about Rosen, when we have Dalton? Just enough already. We aren't picking him up and wherever Rosen goes we'll get to see who was wrong and who was right. And by the way, the guys a total bust.

Agreed.  I really don't understand all of the fuss and discussion about Josh Rosen.  Heck, I was never really impressed with him at UCLA, and honestly had hoped that the Browns would draft him.  

(03-07-2019, 07:58 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: 3 years ago he had Whitworth, Boling, Zietler not to shabby.

And 3 years ago the line was terrible with those guys.