(03-11-2019, 10:06 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: I get why we're all focused on if the Bengals will let Taylor get his guys and what not, but the telling part to me is that Dennard isn't signed yet. That should've already been done.

Also, the same argument continues. You have some people who want to be active in free agency and another group who says breaking the bank is a bad idea. There is middle ground. It would be possible for the Bengals to sign impact free agents who don't break the bank. I'd love Mosley if nothing other than to screw over Baltimore. However, there are LB upgrades that would cost significantly less. Wanting to sign impact outside free agents does not mean use all of our cap space and put us in cap hell.

I agree we need to manage the cap well. But, we have never been close to real cap hell. I see teams sign high profiles guys when it appears they have no cap space? I remember Ravens getting Dumervil years ago at trade deadline and they had no cap space. My point is other GM's seem to manage it be cutting or restructuring contracts to get "the guy",  but not us, not ever will the FO take a leap of faith to date.

I like how the premise of the article is that losing Dennard will doom the upcoming season.

More like not upgrading at LB will.

Not downplaying that losing Dennard hurts some, but our LB's gave up over 1800 yards receiving! That needs fixed 1st.

That said, in the NFL you fix last years weaknesses...and then guys get hurt or decline and the next year you have a new weakness. It's a never-ending cycle.

(03-11-2019, 10:15 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree we need to manage the cap well. But, we have never been close to real cap hell. I see teams sign high profiles guys when it appears they have no cap space? I remember Ravens getting Dumervil years ago at trade deadline and they had no cap space. My point is other GM's seem to manage it be cutting or restructuring contracts to get "the guy",  but not us, not ever will the FO take a leap of faith to date.

The Steelers have done it for years.

Now people will cite trading Brown and the Bell situation, but those guys weren't in that position because of the cap. It was attitude issues.

That said, I don't think we need to go out and spend $10 million a year on a LB.

I think a guy like LJ Fort makes us better. A guy like Hicks for $7-8 million would be great, but there are lower priced guys that would upgrade us also.

Is it just me, or is it more than just the FO philosophy to build through the draft at all costs (fail to make big move to get us over the top). I see a FO also that refuses to pay big second contracts to:
1. Centers
2. Guards
3. LB's
4. Safeties

When I said big, I mean those who demanded 10 million plus per year

The Steelers also build through the draft, yet the pay centers (Pouncey) guards (DeCastro) and LB's (Shazier) in recent history.

It is almost like the Bengals have a pay chart of maximums at some positions and refuse to move off of it regardless of how good the player. I wish they would make those rare exceptions when needed via signing our own to future contracts or FA signees.

(03-11-2019, 10:26 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Steelers have done it for years.

Now people will cite trading Brown and the Bell situation, but those guys weren't in that position because of the cap. It was attitude issues.

That said, I don't think we need to go out and spend $10 million a year on a LB.

I think a guy like LJ Fort makes us better. A guy like Hicks for $7-8 million would be great, but there are lower priced guys that would upgrade us also.

You and I have discussed this many times over the years. I think you agree, we never said every year go sign a big name FA, but don't rule it out once in a while when it makes sense. I think a 25 year old like Mosely signed to a 5 or 6 year deal to anchor or LB corps for a very long time makes sense, he is worth the cash and with long term deal can structure the cap hit over a long period making it easier to manage. I think the Ravens want him, but they can't afford him because of the poor Flacco contract.

The secondary and others are important also, but it seems we bargain shop and it never works out for us. Could you imagine Mosely and if we got White in the draft? We cut Burfict to pay for White and we are golden at LB for 5 years barring major injuries.

(03-11-2019, 10:33 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: You and I have discussed this many times over the years. I think you agree, we never said every year go sign a big name FA, but don't rule it out once in a while when it makes sense. I think a 25 year old like Mosely signed to a 5 or 6 year deal to anchor or LB corps for a very long time makes sense, he is worth the cash and with long term deal can structure the cap hit over a long period making it easier to manage. I think the Ravens want him, but they can't afford him because of the poor Flacco contract.

The secondary and others are important also, but it seems we bargain shop and it never works out for us. Could you imagine Mosely and if we got White in the draft? We cut Burfict to pay for White and we are golden at LB for 5 years barring major injuries.

Yep. Unfortunately, the free agent debate ends up getting summarized as either:

1 ) Free agency is bad - Look at the Redskins.
2 ) Spend, Spend, Spend.

I think a lot of us want the Bengals to be somewhere in the middle. The draft has too many variables. IF your 1st Round pick was a quality starter every time, then that's one thing. But they aren't. And lower rounds are even lower percentage hits...so you have to sign free agents.

We absolutely could afford a $10 million guy if we wanted. A guy like LJ Fort upgrades us for probably $3 million a year. Hicks for $7 million is good too. Different ways. Plus, we can waive Burfict.

The absolute worst thing would be doing nothing at LB.

(03-11-2019, 10:33 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The secondary and others are important also, but it seems we bargain shop and it never works out for us. Could you imagine Mosely and if we got White in the draft? We cut Burfict to pay for White and we are golden at LB for 5 years barring major injuries.

That would be awesome, I just can't see Baltimore letting Mosely go.

(03-11-2019, 10:36 AM)Earendil Wrote: That would be awesome, I just can't see Baltimore letting Mosely go.

If we show interest in him, maybe we drive his price up too?

(03-11-2019, 10:36 AM)Earendil Wrote: That would be awesome, I just can't see Baltimore letting Mosely go.

We will find out very soon, I don't think they tagged him yet. I think if he hits the market, someone will pay him big bucks, not likely us, but someone.

(03-10-2019, 06:31 PM)Whatever Wrote: I keep seeing the Giants' BW Webb being floated around as a possibility to replace Dennard.  He struggled outside, but played well once he moved to the slot last year.  He will likely be cheaper than Dennard and Anarumo will logically want to bring in some of his guys.

The Bengals really need to bring in a solid RT, a LB that can cover, and a #1 TE in FA, as well as retain/replace Dennard.  If we bring in a huge name at one of those positions, it's likely going to mean cheaping out on some of the others.  However, big name FA's also help move tickets and they are obviously trying to build up the excitement level.

However, a word of caution is that FA's often do not perform to the level you expect them to.  I saw a PFT article awhile back that pointed out that out of all the FA's that switched teams last year, only 4 made the Pro Bowl.  Out of those 4, one made it as a return man and one made it as a ST's player, so only 2 position players made it.  The odds of landing a top shelf performer are not great.

Yes, we have many holes to fill.

What the coaches want is one thing. What the front office will deliver is something else entirely. The front office will see Dennard's departure as a chance to procure a comp pick, so that will be factored into re-signing him versus bringing in a lesser player. A lesser player + comp pick is considered improving the team to this front office even though it lowers the skill level. It's a wicked piece of insanity introduced by Mike Brown into running the team. Bad drafts and poor free agency decisions is what has created these holes on the team.

Most teams try to keep their best players. New teams are not always greener. Antonio Brown will have a hard time duplicating his production with some mediocre QB throwing him the ball. LeVeon Bell is a dope head who's taken a year off and who knows what his drug testing is going to return.

I believe a o-line addition would be more likely in free agency than a line backer. If they could sign both pre draft that would let them take BPA with pick #11. They could then take a TE or WR and address other positions too. They don't have to get the top backer or o-lineman but the key is to address it before the draft to give them the flexibility to draft impact players.

(03-11-2019, 10:02 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote:
Why do fans need to be coddled  by reminding us with FA low expectations? We live it yearly and know the Bengals build through the draft and rarely go after a high priced FA and will go after a couple of mid level guys.

In spite of the past, we can still dream. We are capable of dreaming, but knowing our FA haul likely becomes a nightmare. Who knows, maybe this is the year they shock us. 

That's a good question, as evidently either someone at the Enquirer or within the Bengals Management seems to think the fan's need to be "coddled", as you say..

(03-11-2019, 11:18 AM)BengalChris Wrote: The front office will see Dennard's departure as a chance to procure a comp pick, so that will be factored into re-signing him versus bringing in a lesser player. A lesser player + comp pick is considered improving the team to this front office even though it lowers the skill level. It's a wicked piece of insanity introduced by Mike Brown into running the team. 

Comp picks may come into play when looking at what players to sign that are not on the team, but the Bengals don't let their own players go jut to get comp picks.  The Bengals have re-signed way too many of their own players for this to be true.

(03-11-2019, 10:27 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Is it just me, or is it more than just the FO philosophy to build through the draft at all costs (fail to make big move to get us over the top). I see a FO also that refuses to pay big second contracts to:
1. Centers
2. Guards
3. LB's
4. Safeties

When I said big, I mean those who demanded 10 million plus per year

The Steelers also build through the draft, yet the pay centers (Pouncey) guards (DeCastro) and LB's (Shazier) in recent history.

It is almost like the Bengals have a pay chart of maximums at some positions and refuse to move off of it regardless of how good the player. I wish they would make those rare exceptions when needed via signing our own to future contracts or FA signees.

They also kept Tuitt, Hayward, extended Brown (which didn't work out obviously now but he signed that contract) AND had the money to tag Bell (who didn't sign it). I think they extended Villaneueva too.

Their issue seems to be Tomlin let things get out of control.

(03-11-2019, 11:34 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Comp picks may come into play when looking at what players to sign that are not on the team, but the Bengals don't let their own players go jut to get comp picks.  The Bengals have re-signed way too many of their own players for this to be true.

We generally our good at retaining our own drafted players. Yeah some get away here and there, but that happens.

The recent issues seem to be the drafts of the past 5-6 years not producing many good players.

(03-11-2019, 11:18 AM)BengalChris Wrote:  The front office will see Dennard's departure as a chance to procure a comp pick

Doubtful, as Dennard is on every top 50 free agents list.  I see the Bengals making every attempt to keep the player that they have drafted and developed on the team.  Also, with all of the other perceived needs on the team, why would they add another high draft priority, by allowing a solid starting CB leave?

(03-11-2019, 11:26 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I believe a o-line addition would be more likely in free agency than a line backer. If they could sign both pre draft that would let them take BPA with pick #11. They could then take a TE or WR and address other positions too. They don't have to get the top backer or o-lineman but the key is to address it before the draft to give them the flexibility to draft impact players.

In theory we need them both equally, but.

O-Line - I looked over the list of Tackles and Guards and it is very thin. The guys that are there, will likely be overpaid due to supply being low and demand being high. (Many teams need lineman.)

LB - There is a larger supply of LB's out there. They cost less than offensive lineman.

(03-11-2019, 11:34 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Comp picks may come into play when looking at what players to sign that are not on the team, but the Bengals don't let their own players go jut to get comp picks.  The Bengals have re-signed way too many of their own players for this to be true.

(03-11-2019, 12:18 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Doubtful, as Dennard is on every top 50 free agents list.  I see the Bengals making every attempt to keep the player that they have drafted and developed on the team.  Also, with all of the other perceived needs on the team, why would they add another high draft priority, by allowing a solid starting CB leave?

I agree with you, I see it as pointless to create a new hole where no hole exists when there are so many others to fill.

But the team may do it anyways.

 

(03-11-2019, 12:18 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Doubtful, as Dennard is on every top 50 free agents list.  I see the Bengals making every attempt to keep the player that they have drafted and developed on the team.  Also, with all of the other perceived needs on the team, why would they add another high draft priority, by allowing a solid starting CB leave?

It's a weird CB market. I don't see him as a Top 4 CB but he's a top 8 one on the market.

A lot will depend on which ones teams target.

What the Bengals need to do is simple.Bring in a pro bowl caliber FA Offensive right tackle,trade up in the draft to take the best linebacker in the draft,Devin White,Re-sign Tyler Eifert to a one year contract,and if they never done anything other than this,and assuming they stay healthy for the most part,they make the playoffs.But in all reality,This almost certainly will never happen.