(03-11-2019, 11:57 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: The sad thing about Marvin Lewis being gone is that now there is no one left to stop Mike Brown from doing these kinds of deals anymore.  I think ML was a voice of reason in MB's ear, which is why we were at least competitive for so long.

The old man is a terrible GM and I think it's pretty evident that he has regained full control of the ship once again.  I just don't see him listening much to Taylor and his staff.  This could be a sign that we are in very serious trouble.

Is this just how it's going to always be? Yeah, we convinced ourselves that Mike Brown wasn't calling the shots anymore when they replaced coaches in the middle of the season, when they hired ZT, when they put Tobin more in the limelight, when they re-signed Atkins and Dunlap on the same day, when they did the Glenn trade last year, and when they did all of this other un-Bengallike stuff... but the minute something happens we don't like, OMG IT'S ALL MIKE BROWN'S FAULT.

Mike Brown is purely an excuse at this point, nothing more. I think his say is minimal at best these days in every facet of the organization.

Sucks but I'm not freaking out yet.

Contract details haven't been released so we don't know how much is guaranteed or anything.

7 mil per year is average for a BACK-UP right tackle, so there's nothing wrong with signing him for that as long as we plan on upgrading.

New coaching may also be able to have him play better, so we don't really know yet.

It seems like a lot of money and a bad signing, but I'm not kicking puppies yet.

(03-12-2019, 12:11 AM)NKURyan Wrote: Is this just how it's going to always be? Yeah, we convinced ourselves that Mike Brown wasn't calling the shots anymore when they replaced coaches in the middle of the season, when they hired ZT, when they put Tobin more in the limelight, when they re-signed Atkins and Dunlap on the same day, when they did the Glenn trade last year, and when they did all of this other un-Bengallike stuff... but the minute something happens we don't like, OMG IT'S ALL MIKE BROWN'S FAULT.

Mike Brown is purely an excuse at this point, nothing more. I think his say is minimal at best these days in every facet of the organization.

I think Marvin Lewis had much more to do with the moves you described above than you might think, except of course, his own firing. 

When Palmer wanted changes, he didn't go to Marvin or Tobin or Katie or Troy  or anyone else some people around here think might be in charge.  He went right to Mike Brown.  

You're crazy if you think MB does not have a very significant (if not the most) say in the organization.  I have seen no evidence of anything that indicates anything has changed. 

MB signs the checks.  Remember that.   That will be 7 million big ones for Bobby Hart.

(03-12-2019, 12:29 AM)2MinutesHate Wrote: I think Marvin Lewis had much more to do with the moves you described above than you might think, except of course, his own firing. 

When Palmer wanted changes, he didn't go to Marvin or Tobin or Katie or Troy  or anyone else some people around here think might be in charge.  He went right to Mike Brown.  

You're crazy if you think MB does not have a very significant (if not the most) say in the organization.  I have seen no evidence of anything that indicates anything has changed. 

MB signs the checks.  Remember that.   That will be 7 million big ones for Bobby Hart.

Palmer was almost a decade ago.


I think Mike's mostly stepped aside now, and you can just see it in the decisions the organization has made in the last couple of years. Many of them - especially the coaching changes - fly in the face of what Brown did for years, and I find it harder to believe that the old dog has learned new tricks rather than his kids are just running the show now. I think Mike sticks around for one reason as pointed out in this very thread - to provide cover and to be an easy target for any criticism.

(03-11-2019, 11:56 PM)NKURyan Wrote: If only there was some kind of draft where we could potentially draft an offensive lineman coming up...

And if we do? Are we paying bobby 7 mil to ride the pine or are we wasting a draft pick to start in 4 years.  Either way its a terrible move.  Could have offered him 2 mil per year and when no other team was willing to pay him that he could come crawling back for that 2 mil.  Bobby hart is not a guy you try to lock up day 1 of free agency.  I doubt teams were lining up to sign him.

(03-12-2019, 01:44 AM)mikey6866 Wrote: And if we do? Are we paying bobby 7 mil to ride the pine or are we wasting a draft pick to start in 4 years.  Either way its a terrible move.  Could have offered him 2 mil per year and when no other team was willing to pay him that he could come crawling back for that 2 mil.  Bobby hart is not a guy you try to lock up day 1 of free agency.  I doubt teams were lining up to sign him.

The steelers probably leaked a fake memo to the bengals FO that they were going to try to acquire Hart. The Bengals FO panicked and signed him immediately. Steelers are probably continuing their domination on us for this season even with the loss of Bell (who they already have a verified rookie ready to take over) and AB, who Ju-Ju is ready to take over. 
Hart is ready to take over Hart.  

(03-12-2019, 12:25 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: 7 mil per year is average for a BACK-UP right tackle

Um, no, no it's not. Bobby Hart is now the 9th highest paid RT in the league.

There are only 4 RTs who are making more than $7.7m/yr.

I think it’s pretty much guaranteed we go LB in the 1st now. Which is what I want. Absolutely only positive thing I can say about this.

(03-12-2019, 02:27 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Um, no, no it's not. Bobby Hart is now the 9th highest paid RT in the league.

There are only 4 RTs who are making more than $7.7m/yr.

Yep, just saw that.  I guess where I saw it or heard it was completely wrong.

Let's just hope the new coaches know what they're doing or that there's not much guaranteed money and we'll still try to upgrade the position.

(03-12-2019, 02:27 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Um, no, no it's not. Bobby Hart is now the 9th highest paid RT in the league.

There are only 4 RTs who are making more than $7.7m/yr.

There are actually 8 right tackles making more than his average, but it's still a dog shit contract.

Let's hope he proves us wrong.

I'm going to laugh if he only gets the 21 mil with a lot of incentives, and everyone is freaking out over nothing. He could be getting paid 3 mil a year and another 4 with incentives you never know.

I'm going to go ahead and say this was actually a very good move. We weren't going to get an upgrade through free agency. All good OT's will be snagged immediately; it would be risky to assume they would sign with us, even if we match the big contract offers from other teams.

If we didn't get an upgrade, and we lost Bobby Hart we would have been essentially forced to pick an OT at #11. Waiting till the second round would NOT be an option; not with how shaky the O-line has been the last few years. Counting on a rookie that could bust could set us back even longer.

Is Hart worth the money based strictly on his talent? No

But not signing him was a huge risk and could de-rail our season if we don't have at least a mediocre RT. It's very difficult for an offense to function if one of the OT's are getting beat every time we drop back.

(03-12-2019, 05:38 AM)Weazzel80 Wrote: I'm going to go ahead and say this was actually a very good move. We weren't going to get an upgrade through free agency. All good OT's will be snagged immediately; it would be risky to assume they would sign with us, even if we match the big contract offers from other teams.

If we didn't get an upgrade, and we lost Bobby Hart we would have been essentially forced to pick an OT at #11. Waiting till the second round would NOT be an option; not with how shaky the O-line has been the last few years. Counting on a rookie that could bust could set us back even longer.

Is Hart worth the money based strictly on his talent? No

But not signing him was a huge risk and could de-rail our season if we don't have at least a mediocre RT. It's very difficult for an offense to function if one of the OT's are getting beat every time we drop back.

Your logic just collapsed on itself. Your last paragraph literally just described Bobby Hart....except he is not even mediocre.

Well, if our homophobic bully Oline coach likes him, why not?

Well, I am going to try and talk everyone off the ledge here. Hart is getting 16.15 over 3, 21 is with incentives. The first year he is making 7.4, which means on the backside incentives aside his base pay is 4.3 (in line with the current back up market). This deal signals to me we will be taking a tackle in this draft but it could be a round 2 or 3 tackle that may need one year to take over. I could see a guy like Tytus Howard from Alabama State who has looked good leading into the draft but still may take a year to adjust to the level of competition in the NFL.

After my mini-psychotic episode that ensued after hearing this yesterday, I calmed down and began to rationalize. A few things:

1. There aren't a lot of good tackles in the league right now, so a lot of them are getting overpaid in a big way.

2. The college game is so pass-oriented now, that there aren't that many ready to come out and be NFL run blockers.

3. Bengals.

Honestly the part that scares me the most is the money he's getting and what it means for re-signing Dennard. No Dennard means that the likelihood of a first round CB goes up significantly. Screw that garbage.

Also, screw Texas A&M and all of it's fish-eating friends. Good ol' Jimbo can suck a fart straight out of my ass for pimping this loser to Turner based on how he played for him back in the golden days of Florida State. "Well ol' Jimbo said he wuz a good player back at Flawda State!" I hope the Aggies lose every game in embarrassing fashion and then get wrapped up in a really humiliating prostitiution/beastiality scandal that causes them to be given the death penalty.

(03-12-2019, 08:12 AM)Au165 Wrote: Well, I am going to try and talk everyone off the ledge here. Hart is getting 16.15 over 3, 21 is with incentives. The first year he is making 7.4, which means on the backside incentives aside his base pay is 4.3 (in line with the current back up market). This deal signals to me we will be taking a tackle in this draft but it could be a round 2 or 3 tackle that may need one year to take over. I could see a guy like Tytus Howard from Alabama State who has looked good leading into the draft but still may take a year to adjust to the level of competition in the NFL.

Hart got current market value for a below average starting T in the current FA market.  Juwan James, a solid but not great RT, just got $13 mil a year.  To put that in perspective, Earl Thomas is looking for $14 mil a year.  It's just the current cost of doing business.  If gas goes over $3/gallon, it's ridiculous too, but what are you going to do, take the bus?

(03-12-2019, 09:30 AM)Whatever Wrote: Hart got current market value for a below average starting T in the current FA market.  Juwan James, a solid but not great RT, just got $13 mil a year.  To put that in perspective, Earl Thomas is looking for $14 mil a year.  It's just the current cost of doing business.  If gas goes over $3/gallon, it's ridiculous too, but what are you going to do, take the bus?

Well you could argue that any player left over after FA would have been as good as Hart and they would have accepted a 1 year minimum or close to minimum deal. That I think is what frustrates most. I am just breaking down the contract and putting it in perspective. 

(03-12-2019, 08:12 AM)Au165 Wrote: Well, I am going to try and talk everyone off the ledge here. Hart is getting 16.15 over 3, 21 is with incentives. The first year he is making 7.4, which means on the backside incentives aside his base pay is 4.3 (in line with the current back up market). This deal signals to me we will be taking a tackle in this draft but it could be a round 2 or 3 tackle that may need one year to take over. I could see a guy like Tytus Howard from Alabama State who has looked good leading into the draft but still may take a year to adjust to the level of competition in the NFL.

Since my blood pressure meds have kicked in and I've had a chance to sleep on it, I'll take a step back and play along. 

I think/hope you're right about drafting a guy in the 2nd-3rd. Going into the draft, we had to have a RT capable of starting at least at an average level. Everyone sees the mock drafts of with the 2-3 tackles projected to go in the top half of the 1st. What if the staff doesn't like 1 or 2 of them? What if the other(s) go before 11? You are left reaching for a bad value player when you could have a difference maker at another position (*cough DT cough*). One thing I've heard/read over the years is Duke Tobin being very good at gauging how other teams will draft in front us. 

Regarding the money, everyone can see the stupid money being spent yesterday in FA. We were never going to spend the money needed to get Juwan James. Would I have preferred $4-5M/yr over 2 years instead, yeah, but we don't know what other teams were willing to pay him. My guess is the Bengals matched another offer Hart received. 

I hope he plays more than well enough to make those incentives. 

What if...Hart is moved to RG?
I looked back at NFL.com's scouting report of him and they thought he'd be best off if he was moved to OG.
If this is the plan, $5-7 mill ($21 mill is with incentives) for a starting OG isn't bad.
It's also worth pointing out that Hart only has 33.0" arms, which probably contributes to his poor ability to defend the edge.