(03-12-2019, 11:58 AM)Schmitbuck Wrote: Yeah, I'm not arguing with you there. I'm happy to see that we wouldn't have any dead cap if we cut him after this year. 

And even though he will get paid 7.4 mil in 2019 only 5.4 counts against the cap plus the easy out in 2020.

(03-12-2019, 11:44 AM)Schmitbuck Wrote: We're both just speculating. But Hart had to have some leverage in order to get a $21M contract. 

I really think that from everything I can see Taylor REALLY liked him. Taylor had a connection to Jimbo Fisher. Taylor watched the tape and thought that Hart looked REALLY good last year.

Plus, the Bengals weren't going to pay a top guy like James.

(03-12-2019, 12:00 PM)Synric Wrote: And even though he will get paid 7.4 mil in 2019 only 5.4 counts against the cap plus the easy out in 2020.

I supposed they could still draft a Tackle to groom...but I would have rather saw us spend on a Jordan Hicks and fill starting RT in the draft.

Guys this market for players is what it is. when you have middle linebackers making 17 million a year the universe has flipped upside down.

It's not like we just paid 5.5million base salary to a player ranked as the worst starting right tackle for 2 years straight.

(03-11-2019, 06:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I can't even argue that the Bengals will be the ones to get Hart to play up to his potential.  He was just a 7th round pick in 2015.  It is not like he had some high-ceiling he had not reached yet.

Nope, he was terrible at FSU, and he is terrible in the NFL.  I don't get it.  I could understand a couple mil, as we had no one else at T on the roster, but 3/21?  Insane.

(03-12-2019, 12:10 PM)Wyche Wrote: Nope, he was terrible at FSU, and he is terrible in the NFL.  I don't get it.  I could understand a couple mil, as we had no one else at T on the roster, but 3/21?  Insane.

Right

I could understand a 1 year even 3 mil just as a backup, but wow 7 mil 3 years for a guy who has been nothing but a penalty machine and just not very good ?? And putting a tender on Redmond ?? Hart had 14 penalties like 9 false starts. Redmond had like 12 just nuts !! I can't imagine how there's not better on free agent market or hell even draft picks ? They're not gonna pay him that kinda money to ride the pine.

Uzo, Hopkins and some others I get. This is just baffling !

(03-11-2019, 08:22 PM)ochocincos Wrote: So pretty much, Turner talked with Jimbo Fisher, who coached Hart in college. So Turner essentially went off what Hart did in college, not what he’s done in the NFL.


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If that's the case, he shouldn't have listened to Benedict.  What has been the biggest issue for the Seminoles the last few years?

I think most rational folks were waiting for the contract details before going off the rails and as I said much earlier our FO is pretty savvy about these contracts. It appears they have been again. With Hart you're not paying for past performance; you're paying for future possibility. We basically lock him down for one year and it's a win-win from there.

If he proves worthy of the incentives, then we have made a wise investment; if not then we cut him with no cap hit. I think this thread is just more of those that have to propensity to complain do so loudly at every turn. After review all available data I have 0 issue with the signing.

(03-12-2019, 11:32 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: SO we will move him to guard a position he’s never played before in the pros. And didn’t we just sign Hopkins to a tender to play right guard.  This reasoning makes zero sense.

We don't know the tender was to play Hopkins at RG. It could be to play C or to be a versatile backup. It's only $3 mill, which is backup-level cost.
Also, you say it doesn't make sense to move Hart to guard because he's never played it in the pros. Well guess what, he's bad at RT, so why not try him where many projected him to be coming into the NFL (guard)?

His last 8 games he was remarkably better than the first 8 cut out the false starts he could be average

(03-12-2019, 12:36 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: His last 8 games he was remarkably better than the first 8 cut out the false starts he could be average

Data to prove this?

I hated this signing yesterday. After sleeping on it, I still don't like it, but sort of understand that it was a necessary evil.

Every team needs a RT. We had no RT on the roster. Now we do. Yes, we overpaid for a sub-par player -- $5.5 mil. per yr is about league average for a starting RT, and Hart is below league average in skill. BUT we had the cap space, and this frees us up so that we don't necessarily HAVE to draft an OT in the first or second round.

Put it this way. I'd rather pay Hart $5.5 mil, with the ability to move on from him next year, than pay JaWuan James -- at best a league average RT -- $13 mil per the next 4 years.

(03-12-2019, 12:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think most rational folks were waiting for the contract details before going off the rails and as I said much earlier our FO is pretty savvy about these contracts. It appears they have been again. With Hart you're not paying for past performance; you're paying for future possibility. We basically lock him down for one year and it's a win-win from there.

If he proves worthy of the incentives, then we have made a wise investment; if not then we cut him with no cap hit. I think this thread is just more of those that have to propensity to complain do so loudly at every turn. After review all available data I have 0 issue with the signing.

Thats great and all except the part you left out about hart being terrible and the brown family generally doesn't just release players still under contract.

At some point mixon will want to run to the right side..  might still have to wait a few years now  

Worst offensive line and we re sign the same guys... genius level gm ing there.

There were/still are plenty of free agent tackles out there. 

(03-12-2019, 12:59 PM)shanebo Wrote: I hated this signing yesterday. After sleeping on it, I still don't like it, but sort of understand that it was a necessary evil.

Every team needs a RT. We had no RT on the roster. Now we do. Yes, we overpaid for a sub-par player -- $5.5 mil. per yr is about league average for a starting RT, and Hart is below league average in skill. BUT we had the cap space, and this frees us up so that we don't necessarily HAVE to draft an OT in the first or second round.

Put it this way. I'd rather pay Hart $5.5 mil, with the ability to move on from him next year, than pay JaWuan James -- at best a league average RT -- $13 mil per the next 4 years.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts. Nice post


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(03-12-2019, 11:22 AM)Synric Wrote: I understand the contract. If he improves and they make the playoffs Hart will get more money nothing wrong with that if he plays the same they have an easy out. 

That contract screams drafting a tackle early.

The Bengals.com article about how Taylor sees him as our starting RT...doesn't scream of replacing him.

(03-12-2019, 11:21 AM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: Here is the problem. The lack of quality OL has been evident for many years now in the NFL and the result is you are forced to overpay for the good ones. We whiffed 100% on Ced and Fisher SO the team should have then stepped up and 'overpaid' for Whit and Zietler. Zeit at $10M is FAR more value than Hart at $7M. This is where this team fails time and time again. So short sighted. They overpay for Hart and the likes of Dre and Rey M and Vinnie Rey but then try and undercut Whit and Zeitler who actually were pro Bowl players. This team has little ability to gauge a players actual market value. 

Great point - $10 million for an elite Guard vs $7 million a year for a bad tackle.

(03-12-2019, 11:53 AM)Wyche Wrote: In this particular case, it's warranted.  Andy has got to love this about as much as we do.

I think the worst parts of this are that Taylor seemed to really want Hart back.

It shows that the new coaching staff isn't some group of geniuses. Even if you REALLY like Hart, get him for $3-4 million a year.

(03-12-2019, 12:06 PM)Okeana Wrote: Guys this market for players is what it is.  when you have middle linebackers making 17 million a year the universe has flipped upside down.  

It's not like we just paid 5.5million base salary to a player ranked as the worst starting right tackle for 2 years straight.

We're baselining this off of the 1st day of signing. Contracts will come back down to earth soon.

I doubt that some team was going to run out and sign Hart 4 hours into free agency.

(03-11-2019, 04:57 PM)TSwigZ Wrote: Per Adam Schefter

3 years 21 fffing million bucks

Insane! Can't even make this crap up. Not sure why I even bother to look the first week of FA. Even the 2nd and 3rd for that matter. Meanwhile the Browns are building a monster.

(03-12-2019, 11:15 AM)Synric Wrote: The contract is 3 years for 16.15 million 5.3 million average. The 2019 cap hit is 5.4 million with the option to cut him in 2020 with no dead cap.

Well, that's a bit better.  Insurance policy with the chance to cut bait....with only one other starting T on the team, the move is not as bad as it appeared on the surface.  Thanks for the update.