Three things come to mind that has caused some fans pause if not full throttle panic in bengaldom.

First, it started with the hire of Turner as OL coach. I think his history turned off a lot of bengal fans because of the past perception that the franchise has been trying to shake like the team is full of thugs. Plus his resume is simply not outstanding. He brings average expectations at best.

Second, the no-hire of JDR. I think when Taylor turned down JDR, that he lost a lot of PR capital and faith. I am not sure how Sweet Lou will do but his past resume is average at best. The late hire of Sweet Lou leaves some believe that he is the 7-8th choice. The hiring of DC was a PR nightmare that should have been kept under wrap.

The deal breaker or back breaker for most was signing Hart. That signing has literally cause some fans PTSD. It is like one of those familiar signings that stings like an STD. Like a nightmare. Why? Fans go by what they watch every Sunday. Some go by metric data provided by PFF data. Neither support signing Hart as the future RT for a team that has supposedly changed. It wreaks sameness and settling for mediocrity; characteristics that long-term Bengal fans have correlated with Mike Brown and the Front Office.

So here we are. Looking seemingly up toward other teams in the AFC North. I think Taylor needs to hit homeruns this 2019 draft; I mean he needs to kill it.

Excellent diagnosis doc! Pretty much sums up my feelings. I want to be optimistic and excited. Haven’t been to a game since 2015 when I vowed I was done wasting my time (entire Sunday) and money until Marvin was gone. I was pumped and really liked the Taylor hire, but that enthusiasm as quickly dwindled.

I really wanted to go to the week one game, and hoped the stands would be packed to support the team and new HC. But if something else positive doesn’t happen I’ll have a hard time convincing myself anything has really changed

I think the panic mode isn't warranted, but cause for some concern. Despite a 'culture' change, we are still making the same Bengal mistakes. I don't agree with winning Super Bowls through FA, but having some sort of impact in FA would be nice. As usual, nothing.

Guess we will wait and see come September.

Is it just me or doesn't anyone else see that the Bengals are going into complete rebuilding mode with their new coach? I mean, we have done nothing to improve the league worst defense or offensive line. It's obvious to me they are tanking it to get a high pick next year for the Clemson QB sweepstakes. The Browns and Ravens are making moves left and right and we re-signed a horrible left tackle and slow linebacker and a 3rd string TE.

I mean does everyone need the front office to draw pictures with crayons and a description? Plan A- Suck in 2019. Rebuild for future.

The reason no coaches would come here is because they didn't want to be in a rebuilding mode with a team that won't sign free agents. Isn't this freaking obvious??

Seriously though, with the economics of todays NFL we will never be competitive. San Fran signed an average, often hurt linebacker known for his missed tackles to more guaranteed money than we pay our best player AJ Green. Think on that.

I am a lifelong fan but this is brutal and I need to decide if I want to spend the rest of my days mired in misery over the clusterfraggle of a team.

Be prepared, Cleveland is going to beat us so bad the next 5 years it will be borderline unfair.

(03-13-2019, 03:33 PM)yang Wrote: Is it just me or doesn't anyone else see that the Bengals are going into complete rebuilding mode with their new coach?

Please point to where the Bengals have dumped older vets with big contracts in order to re-build for the future.  Or where we have traded away vets for draft picks.

(03-13-2019, 03:33 PM)yang Wrote:  I mean does everyone need the front office to draw pictures with crayons and a description? 

I think some one needs to draw picture for you to understand what a "re-building" team looks like.

(03-13-2019, 03:30 PM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: I think the panic mode isn't warranted, but cause for some concern. Despite a 'culture' change, we are still making the same Bengal mistakes. I don't agree with winning Super Bowls through FA, but having some sort of impact in FA would be nice. As usual, nothing.

Guess we will wait and see come September.

Exactly! Free agency is overrated by fans but to sign two players that we're horrible last year to long term deals is horrendous.

(03-13-2019, 03:56 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Exactly! Free agency is overrated by fans but to sign two players that we're horrible last year to long term deals is horrendous.

I don't see Brown as "horrible" but he was injured.  He is slow.  It seems to indicate that the Bengals will skip over D. White during the draft unless White can play WIL.  That is what worries me a bit.  But I would be okay with Hockenson because I think back to Reggie Smith and how much he helped the O-Line with his blocking.  Smith was significant.  Uzi can block but not like Smith.  Hockenson may be the real deal and worthy at 11th pick for this very reason.  

(03-13-2019, 02:30 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Three things come to mind that has caused some fans pause if not full throttle panic in bengaldom.  

First, it started with the hire of Turner as OL coach.  I think his history turned off a lot of bengal fans because of the past perception that the franchise has been trying to shake like the team is full of thugs.  Plus his resume is simply not outstanding.  He brings average expectations at best.

Second, the no-hire of JDR.  I think when Taylor turned down JDR, that he lost a lot of PR capital and faith.  I am not sure how Sweet Lou will do but his past resume is average at best.  The late hire of Sweet Lou leaves some believe that he is the 7-8th choice.  The hiring of DC was a PR nightmare that should have been kept under wrap.    

The deal breaker or back breaker for most was signing Hart.  That signing has literally cause some fans PTSD.  It is like one of those familiar signings that stings like an STD.  Like a nightmare.  Why?  Fans go by what they watch every Sunday.  Some go by metric data provided by PFF data.  Neither support signing Hart as the future RT for a team that has supposedly changed.  It wreaks sameness and settling for mediocrity; characteristics that long-term Bengal fans have correlated with Mike Brown and the Front Office.  

So here we are.  Looking seemingly up toward other teams in the AFC North.  I think Taylor needs to hit homeruns this 2019 draft; I mean he needs to kill it.

All very true.

We all should remember that there were no (zero, nada, zippo) changes to the front office staff. So there really is no reason to expect anything other than sameness from a front office that still includes Mike Brown.

Only the coaching staff was fired.

Taylor will not have 100% say in the draft. Marvin didn't have 100% say in the draft either and Mike Brown has a bad habit of overruling coaches when he falls in love with some sob storied player.

This off season is not just a grade of the new coaches, but also a front office staff that brought us Ogbuehi, Fisher, Hunt, Ross, Still and discarded the services of the likes of Whitworth, Zeitler, Marivn Jones, Reggie Nelson, Palmer, Steinbach and others; and if we really look at the tenure of Mike Brown there is a pattern of sameness for 28 years which really only showed improvement as long as Marvin Lewis was here.

So really the thing we do not know, and most likely are little fearful of, is: will the front office completely revert back to the way it was before Marvin Lewis arrived?

Does Taylor have enough personality to influence this front office in player selection and moves? Or, will he just succumb to the insanity that is Mike Brown's thinking process like all the coaches before Marvin did? My God our player moves in the 90's were just horrible, year after year after year, and all of that sits at the feet of this front office and Mike Brown.


This team never improves itself in the first week of free agency so the fact that it hasn't this year is not a concern.

 

(03-13-2019, 04:16 PM)BengalChris Wrote: All very true.

We all should remember that there were no (zero, nada, zippo) changes to the front office staff. So there really is no reason to expect anything other than sameness from a front office that still includes Mike Brown.

Only the coaching staff was fired.

Taylor will not have 100% say in the draft. Marvin didn't have 100% say in the draft either and Mike Brown has a bad habit of overruling coaches when he falls in love with some sob storied player.

This off season is not just a grade of the new coaches, but also a front office staff that brought us Ogbuehi, Fisher, Hunt, Ross, Still and discarded the services of the likes of Whitworth, Zeitler, Marivn Jones, Reggie Nelson, Palmer, Steinbach and others; and if we really look at the tenure of Mike Brown there is a pattern of sameness for 28 years which really only showed improvement as long as Marvin Lewis was here.

So really the thing we do not know, and most likely are little fearful of, is: will the front office completely revert back to the way it was before Marvin Lewis arrived?

Does Taylor have enough personality to influence this front office in player selection and moves? Or, will he just succumb to the insanity that is Mike Brown's thinking process like all the coaches before Marvin did? My God our player moves in the 90's were just horrible, year after year after year, and all of that sits at the feet of this front office and Mike Brown.


This team never improves itself in the first week of free agency so the fact that it hasn't this year is not a concern.

 

I think it is significant that the front office made sweeping coaching changes.  I say this because the coaching staff serves in part as scouting department and from my understanding, it is the coaches that try to sell the war room on "their guy."  Yes, in the past Mike Brown would break tie votes but the war room operates as a committee decision.  

Fans cannot overlook the largest coaching changes in decades that recently occurred for the Cincinnati Bengals.  Another observation is that it appears the Front Office allowed Taylor to select most of the coaches he wanted.  In the past, even with Lewis, this did not happen.  

I question Taylor's judgment at selecting coaching personnel at the OL and DC positions. Taylor has a plan.  I hope it works.  I hope the sum is greater than the parts.  Turner has already made a significant impact and it may not be a good one.  

A lot of fans questioned Paul Alexanders decisions and talent evaluation of players.  Some now worry that Turner may be similar in competency.  

(03-13-2019, 03:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I think some one needs to draw picture for you to understand what a "re-building" team looks like.



Rebuilding in the sense they are trying to field a bad team to get a low round draft pick next season.  Rebuilding in that they are not investing in any big free agents that could help the team now.


They purposefully took bad players and over paid them like Brown and Hart.  I mean are you telling me there was another offer for Hart about 2 million a year?  Really?  

They will not sign a free agent outside of our own.  They will try to re-sign Green and Boyd.   

But what is your over/under for wins next year?  3? 4? 5?  Will even win 2 games?  

What about Cleveland?  10? 

What are they doing to improve this team?  

(03-13-2019, 03:33 PM)yang Wrote: Is it just me or doesn't anyone else see that the Bengals are going into complete rebuilding mode with their new coach?   I mean, we have done nothing to improve the league worst defense or offensive line.  It's obvious to me they are tanking it to get a high pick next year for the Clemson QB sweepstakes.   The Browns and Ravens are making moves left and right and we re-signed a horrible left tackle and slow linebacker and a 3rd string TE.  

I mean does everyone need the front office to draw pictures with crayons and a description?  Plan A- Suck in 2019.  Rebuild for future.  

The reason no coaches would come here is because they didn't want to be in a rebuilding mode with a team that won't sign free agents.  Isn't this freaking obvious??  

Seriously though, with the economics of todays NFL we will never be competitive.   San Fran signed an average, often hurt linebacker known for his missed tackles to more guaranteed money than we pay our best player AJ Green.   Think on that.

I am a lifelong fan but this is brutal and I need to decide if I want to spend the rest of my days mired in misery over the clusterfraggle of a team.  

Be prepared, Cleveland is going to beat us so bad the next 5 years it will be borderline unfair.

If that's the plan, we'll need to be in full tank mode for 2 more years. Trevor Lawrence was a true freshman this year. He cannot be drafted until 2021. 

6 minutes ago

(55 minutes ago)fredtoast Wrote: Wrote:I think some one needs to draw picture for you to understand what a "re-building" team looks like.



Rebuilding in the sense they are trying to field a bad team to get a low round draft pick next season.  Rebuilding in that they are not investing in any big free agents that could help the team now.


They purposefully took bad players and over paid them like Brown and Hart.  I mean are you telling me there was another offer for Hart about 2 million a year?  Really?  

They will not sign a free agent outside of our own.  They will try to re-sign Green and Boyd.   

But what is your over/under for wins next year?  3? 4? 5?  Will even win 2 games?  

What about Cleveland?  10? 

What are they doing to improve this team?  

1.  You have no idea what Hart would have gotten from another team.  

2.  You have no idea if they will sign another player other than their own.  They do it almost every year so I don't know why you are even making this claim.

3.  I have already explained that it is impossible to make a prediction about next years record when we are not even half way into free agency and there has been no draft.

4.  Please learn how to use the quote function.  It is very simple.  Do you need me to draw a picture with crayon and an explanation?

(03-13-2019, 04:34 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I think it is significant that the front office made sweeping coaching changes.  I say this because the coaching staff serves in part as scouting department and from my understanding, it is the coaches that try to sell the war room on "their guy."  Yes, in the past Mike Brown would break tie votes but the war room operates as a committee decision.  

Fans cannot overlook the largest coaching changes in decades that recently occurred for the Cincinnati Bengals.  Another observation is that it appears the Front Office allowed Taylor to select most of the coaches he wanted.  In the past, even with Lewis, this did not happen.  

I question Taylor's judgment at selecting coaching personnel at the OL and DC positions. Taylor has a plan.  I hope it works.  I hope the sum is greater than the parts.  Turner has already made a significant impact and it may not be a good one.  

A lot of fans questioned Paul Alexanders decisions and talent evaluation of players.  Some now worry that Turner may be similar in competency.  

And not one person from the front office was sent packing. Half the full-time scouts are Brown family members. Mike Brown may be more in the background today, but he use to be very involved in the draft and he was the deciding guy. I don't want those days to return, ever.

We'll have to wait and see what happens. There's no reason to believe this coaching staff will be any better than the last one. Just because they are different doesn't mean they are better. We have to wait and see what they do on the field and it's really going to take a full year. The last coaching staff started off last year decently, then they couldn't game plan their way around good opponents, then some injuries.

We have to see how this new staff does during the season against the division and other teams, like the Rams, Seattle and New England. We can assume all we want, but the team needs to improve if it wants to have more than 6 wins in 2019.

If the team can't win the division and beat New England or the Rams, then it won't be a contender.

 

(03-13-2019, 04:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 6 minutes ago




1.  You have no idea what Hart would have gotten from another team.  

2.  You have no idea if they will sign another player other than their own.  They do it almost every year so I don't know why you are even making this claim.

3.  I have already explained that it is impossible to make a prediction about next years record when we are not even half way into free agency and there has been no draft.

4.  Please learn how to use the quote function.  It is very simple.  Do you need me to draw a picture with crayon and an explanation?

How do you open a door?  How do you a know a doorknob will work?  You seem oblivious to the ability to extrapolate from known facts.

Hart had no takers last year and we signed him for a million dollars.  He is exactly what the Giants thought as he proved to be one of the worst defensive tackles in the NFL.   So what makes you think there were people knocking on his door this year?   Granted some team might have given a couple million for him as a backup but who else would have made him a starter and given him 21 million?   If you believe that I've got a bridge to sell you.  I'll draw it in crayon. 

And again, what's your over/under given what you know now?  We have 90% of the team in place and 95% of the starters.  3 wins?  Do you honestly think we'll get there?   

If we are not looking to future as you claim and you believe the Bengals think this is a playoff worthy team then really our management is wore than our deepest fears and all hope truly is lost.

(03-13-2019, 03:56 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Exactly! Free agency is overrated by fans but to sign two players that we're horrible last year to long term deals is horrendous.

No, what's horrible are fans who complain a player was horrible when that player was actually injured and gutting it out because there was no one else available.... ie Uzo and Brown. Both did admirable jobs considering the injuries they had.... I'm not in panic mode, I'm not even in concerned mode. Nothing has happened yet except we signed some of our own free agents to fair deals. People whining about the deals need to actually read them....

(03-13-2019, 05:03 PM)BengalChris Wrote: And not one person from the front office was sent packing. Half the full-time scouts are Brown family members. Mike Brown may be more in the background today, but he use to be very involved in the draft and he was the deciding guy. I don't want those days to return, ever.

We'll have to wait and see what happens. There's no reason to believe this coaching staff will be any better than the last one. Just because they are different doesn't mean they are better. We have to wait and see what they do on the field and it's really going to take a full year. The last coaching staff started off last year decently, then they couldn't game plan their way around good opponents, then some injuries.

We have to see how this new staff does during the season against the division and other teams, like the Rams, Seattle and New England. We can assume all we want, but the team needs to improve if it wants to have more than 6 wins in 2019.

If the team can't win the division and beat New England or the Rams, then it won't be a contender.

 

The same nepotistic bunch that saw us through the 90’s, 00’s, and 10’s is still running the show. Just like the Trump organization, many got their jobs with their only qualification being a family member. When exposed to public scrutiny this arrangement usually shows its failings quickly.

(03-13-2019, 05:19 PM)Sled21 Wrote: No, what's horrible are fans who complain a player was horrible when that player was actually injured and gutting it out because there was no one else available.... ie Uzo and Brown. Both did admirable jobs considering the injuries they had.... I'm not in panic mode, I'm not even in concerned mode. Nothing has happened yet except we signed some of our own free agents to fair deals. People whining about the deals need to actually read them....

If you want to pay Brown 21 million to be a middle linebacker like Vinnie Ray that is slow and can tackle downhill but is a liability in coverage then you got what you want.  But let's not pretend anyone else wanted him for anything else than that and would have paid near that much for him.  Buffalo let him walk with no problems and drafted a replacement.   He wasn't very good last year.   Whatever.  This is a Bengals move. 

(03-13-2019, 05:25 PM)yang Wrote:    He wasn't very good last year.   Whatever.  This is a Bengals move. 

For the love of God..... I'll type this slower so some of you can understand...… He...… was..... playing.... injured....last.....year......

(03-13-2019, 05:25 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: The same nepotistic bunch that saw us through the 90’s, 00’s, and 10’s is still running the show.  Just like the Trump organization, many got their jobs with their only qualification being a family member.  When exposed to public scrutiny this arrangement usually shows its failings quickly.

At least Trump is a winner, Mike Brown isn't.

(03-13-2019, 05:10 PM)yang Wrote:  3 wins?  Do you honestly think we'll get there?   

Yes.  I'll make a sig bet with you right now that we win more at least 3 games next year.