(03-24-2019, 09:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Do you believe that there is no correlation between past performance and future performance like Beaker does?

Nor is there a curse that links totally unrelated sports teams at both amateur and professional levels. Unless youre a simple pessimist.

Even though it may feel like it the truth is Mike Brown won't live forever. Eventually he'll die and his offspring will continue the same path, but the good news is they won't live forever either. Their kids will take over and the team will sooner or later be known as the Cincinnati Shirtsleeves to Shirtsleeves*. 

*an old proverb with different variations in most cultures.  It boils down to the father builds, the son spends and the grandson begs.. 

If I were a fan of a team I felt was cursed, which is ridiculous btw, I would probably move on to another team. And certainly wouldn't be a fan on their message board.

(03-24-2019, 08:00 PM)Beaker Wrote: No you dont....or you would realize that you have the choice to control your own outlook. You can choose to be miserable, or choose to be happy. Pessimism and negativity are a shitty way to go through life. Pessimists will try to justify it by saying they are realists, when in fact past history does not predict future results. If it did, nothing would ever change. And things do change, so why choose negativity?

It may not predict them but it sure leaves a lot of suggestive bread crumbs.

But none of this disputes my assertion that I understand the perspective of the perpetual optimist. You have no basis nor right to infer that I choose to be miserable. In fact, I'm anything but miserable. I do tend to take the more negative outlook when it comes to the Bengals and the Reds because it's the pragmatic way to approach them. Doesn't mean I don't hope to someday be shocked and thrilled. I do think those days CAN come, and when it becomes evident we are trending in the right direction, my expectations and hope will be adjusted accordingly.

(03-25-2019, 10:20 AM)RunKijanaRun Wrote:  I do tend to take the more negative outlook when it comes to the Bengals and the Reds because it's the pragmatic way to approach them. 

Your confusing pragmatism with pessimism.

(03-25-2019, 12:17 AM)Circleville Guy Wrote: I don’t believe in the whole curse thing. I do believe that what the Pro teams have gotten as results is exactly because of what they’ve put into the product. The Reds have finally invested a little but still didn’t go all in and they will probably be a .500 team because that’s what they’ve invested. The Bengals ownership is a FN joke, if there wasn’t a draft system to luck into a decent pick that they have to make, they would have a .200 Win Pct. every year. There’s no curse, this is the fruit of the seed that these two teams have put in the ground.

You mean you don't believe Bill Walsh is reaching out from the grave and cursing us for paving his way to SF to create a dynasty and win multiple SBs?  The hell you say.

(03-25-2019, 10:25 AM)Beaker Wrote: Your confusing pragmatism with pessimism.

No, contextually, I'm not. Pessimism would be me stating "The Bengals are always going to be awful and I don't see any reason to think they'll ever win a playoff game."

Pragmatism is "I'm not getting my hopes up until I'm given good reasons to do so."



But you avoided the main points of my reply. Which is fine. This is trending towards the realm of academia and everyone's favorite pastime - arguing on the internet about irrelevant minutia.  

(03-25-2019, 10:20 AM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: It may not predict them but it sure leaves a lot of suggestive bread crumbs.

But none of this disputes my assertion that I understand the perspective of the perpetual optimist. You have no basis nor right to infer that I choose to be miserable. In fact, I'm anything but miserable. I do tend to take the more negative outlook when it comes to the Bengals and the Reds because it's the pragmatic way to approach them. Doesn't mean I don't hope to someday be shocked and thrilled. I do think those days CAN come, and when it becomes evident we are trending in the right direction, my expectations and hope will be adjusted accordingly.

Really EVERY other NFL city in the US has had that year where they had some success and won a playoff game.

It's unthinkable that we haven't had that. 2015 could have been our year I suppose.

I was thinking about talented rosters and how many years we had a roster that I would deem talented enough to win a playoff game...and it's maybe 3-4 over 27 years.

It's not a curse. This teams on field achievement is directly linked to management philosophy.

I can't really speak to the Reds. Baseball is a different animal than football. Football has a strong salary cap. Baseball is kind of anything goes if you are willing to pay the luxury tax.

(03-25-2019, 10:36 AM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: No, contextually, I'm not. Pessimism would be me stating "The Bengals are always going to be awful and I don't see any reason to think they'll ever win a playoff game."

Pragmatism is "I'm not getting my hopes up until I'm given good reasons to do so."



But you avoided the main points of my reply. Which is fine. This is trending towards the realm of academia and everyone's favorite pastime - arguing on the internet about irrelevant minutia.  

Except that your point was you admitted taking a negative outlook and framed it as pragmatic....which was what I responded to. 

My point is that constant negativity does nothing to make viewing this team, or following it and exchanging ideas as a fan enjoyable. And I would make the calculated assumption that that applies to more people than just myself. 

I understand where the negativity arises from. But I also understand that its a choice and serves little productive purpose to dwell on. Unlike others, at least you admit it can change...and likely will since sports are cyclical. But for some, the constant negativity in the face of anything positive is ridiculous. 

I am not saying people need to agree with every decision the Bengals make. Nor do people need to be constant cheerleaders, but at least be objective in the assessment of the team, not constantly insisting that everything they do is shit. I think things like the Hart contract are bad decisions. But it doesn't drive me to insist that this team will always be terrible like some on this MB do (and that was a general observation, not a direct implication at you).

(03-25-2019, 10:37 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's not a curse. This teams on field achievement is directly linked to management philosophy.

Thank you for admitting that. I agree with you that FO decisions are one of the factors that determine the seasonal success of a sports team.

(03-25-2019, 10:47 AM)Beaker Wrote: My point is that constant negativity does nothing to make viewing this team, or following it and exchanging ideas as a fan enjoyable. And I would make the calculated assumption that that applies to more people than just myself. 

I am also one of the people who find the continual bashing of the team very annoying.  I don't understand why some can't seem to ever find anything positive to post.  My favorites are the people who repeatedly announce "they are done with this team."  You are right Beaker, it's not enjoyable sometimes.

And the idea of a "curse?"  Really?

(03-24-2019, 10:38 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: If you have a stock that lost money for 27 years in a row would you bank on that stock succeeding the 28th year? To the point where you praised every move?

The Bengals are a true outlier in the league as EVERY TEAM has won a playoff game since we last did. Most teams have won 5+ over that span.

Why would you still invest in stock that loses money for 27 years in a row?  Wouldn't you stop investing in that stock and find something better, instead crying to everyone and losing your shirt at the same time?

(03-25-2019, 11:56 AM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: I am also one of the people who find the continual bashing of the team very annoying.  I don't understand why some can't seem to ever find anything positive to post.  My favorites are the people who repeatedly announce "they are done with this team."  You are right Beaker, it's not enjoyable sometimes.

And the idea of a "curse?"  Really?

Amen!

(03-25-2019, 12:04 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Why would you still invest in stock that loses money for 27 years in a row?  Wouldn't you stop investing in that stock and find something better, instead crying to everyone and losing your shirt at the same time?

BINGO!

(03-25-2019, 12:04 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Why would you still invest in stock that loses money for 27 years in a row?  Wouldn't you stop investing in that stock and find something better, instead crying to everyone and losing your shirt at the same time?

Comparing one's financial investment choices with one's choice of football teams is a bit of a conflation, even by the loosely defined structure of this discussion.

We're all here because we hope. I'm not going to break down the intricacies of what it means to be a fan. However, what it means to be an investor doesn't intersect with it. 

(03-25-2019, 12:15 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: Comparing one's financial investment choices with one's choice of football teams is a bit of a conflation, even by the loosely defined structure of this discussion.

We're all here because we hope. I'm not going to break down the intricacies of what it means to be a fan. However, what it means to be an investor doesn't intersect with it. 

Then maybe that analogy shouldn't be in about 47 of his post......

(03-25-2019, 12:15 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: Comparing one's financial investment choices with one's choice of football teams is a bit of a conflation, even by the loosely defined structure of this discussion.

We're all here because we hope. I'm not going to break down the intricacies of what it means to be a fan. However, what it means to be an investor doesn't intersect with it. 

In all fairness, he's not the one who first brought up the stock market comparison.  

(03-25-2019, 10:47 AM)Beaker Wrote: Except that your point was you admitted taking a negative outlook and framed it as pragmatic....which was what I responded to. 

My point is that constant negativity does nothing to make viewing this team, or following it and exchanging ideas as a fan enjoyable. And I would make the calculated assumption that that applies to more people than just myself. 

I understand where the negativity arises from. But I also understand that its a choice and serves little productive purpose to dwell on. Unlike others, at least you admit it can change...and likely will since sports are cyclical. But for some, the constant negativity in the face of anything positive is ridiculous. 

I am not saying people need to agree with every decision the Bengals make. Nor do people need to be constant cheerleaders, but at least be objective in the assessment of the team, not constantly insisting that everything they do is shit. I think things like the Hart contract are bad decisions. But it doesn't drive me to insist that this team will always be terrible like some on this MB do (and that was a general observation, not a direct implication at you).

I understand that completely. I don't like it when, on the rare occasion when I'm feeling especially hopeful, someone shits all over my mood.

Zac is a good example. I never thought we'd emerge from our coaching search with him. I was resigned to Hue Jackson or Vance.

I really like Zac and I really think he's going to be a fine coach. Wasn't crazy about how he filled his staff, but I am still *optimistic* about him.

And I was a teensy bit agitated by all the posters here who have already written him off as the next Dave Shula. 

And no, I don't think any of us truly believe in any sort of an actual curse. It's merely a playful term to explain our decades of suffering. 

I'm here, will always be here...even though at times, walking away was the pragmatic thing to do. But I'm for better or for worse. With sports teams and marriage. One of those institutions offers me some jollies from time to time. 

(03-25-2019, 12:21 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: I understand that completely. I don't like it when, on the rare occasion when I'm feeling especially hopeful, someone shits all over my mood.

Zac is a good example. I never thought we'd emerge from our coaching search with him. I was resigned to Hue Jackson or Vance.

I really like Zac and I really think he's going to be a fine coach. Wasn't crazy about how he filled his staff, but I am still *optimistic* about him.

And I was a teensy bit agitated by all the posters here who have already written him off as the next Dave Shula. 

And no, I don't think any of us truly believe in any sort of an actual curse. It's merely a playful term to explain our decades of suffering. 

I'm here, will always be here...even though at times, walking away was the pragmatic thing to do. But I'm for better or for worse. With sports teams and marriage. One of those institutions offers me some jollies from time to time. 

Good post.  

(03-25-2019, 12:21 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: I understand that completely. I don't like it when, on the rare occasion when I'm feeling especially hopeful, someone shits all over my mood.

Zac is a good example. I never thought we'd emerge from our coaching search with him. I was resigned to Hue Jackson or Vance.

I really like Zac and I really think he's going to be a fine coach. Wasn't crazy about how he filled his staff, but I am still *optimistic* about him.

And I was a teensy bit agitated by all the posters here who have already written him off as the next Dave Shula. 

And no, I don't think any of us truly believe in any sort of an actual curse. It's merely a playful term to explain our decades of suffering. 

I'm here, will always be here...even though at times, walking away was the pragmatic thing to do. But I'm for better or for worse. With sports teams and marriage. One of those institutions offers me some jollies from time to time. 

I can respect that!