Apparently at the Owner's Meeting this weekend, they voted on a different way to do the onside kick. The new safety rules last year made it impossible to recover a kick. So now they they are going the AAF way and implementing, if you want the ball back, you can have an untimed down and need to gain 15 yards. You make it you get the ball back and if not then the opposing team gets the ball....

(03-25-2019, 12:29 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Apparently at the Owner's Meeting this weekend, they voted on a different way to do the onside kick. The new safety rules last year made it impossible to recover a kick. So now they they are going the AAF way and implementing, if you want the ball back, you can have an untimed down and need to gain 15 yards. You make it you get the ball back and if not then the opposing team gets the ball....

I like it.  It gives teams a better chance of getting the ball and it should lead to a greater number of exciting finishes.  And it' no slam dunk either, since the numbers for success at converting are probably pretty low.  So, basically, defenses should be able to stop it but at least offenses have a fighting chance.

(03-25-2019, 12:29 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Apparently at the Owner's Meeting this weekend, they voted on a different way to do the onside kick. The new safety rules last year made it impossible to recover a kick. So now they they are going the AAF way and implementing, if you want the ball back, you can have an untimed down and need to gain 15 yards. You make it you get the ball back and if not then the opposing team gets the ball....

Sounds exciting to be honest compared to an onside kick. I could see the best offenses in the game taking advantage of this on terrible defensive teams. Patriots come to mind trying to run up the score lol.

I think I like this as well. Better odds of getting the ball back trying to get 15 yards as opposed to an onside kick which never seems to work.

Do I like it? Well, will have to see. However, it's wussifying the toughness of the game. Plus, it's bad for us. Dre K is going to cost us a lot of possessions.

Does anyone know where the ball is spotted if it's a failed conversion?

(03-25-2019, 12:48 PM)Takedown Wrote: Sounds exciting to be honest compared to an onside kick. I could see the best offenses in the game taking advantage of this on terrible defensive teams. Patriots come to mind trying to run up the score lol.

I think the way the AAF does it is that the team has to be behind in the score to select that option.  I think it is something like down by at least 17 points or down by any point amount with 5 minutes left in the fourth quarter.  So a team with a lead or tied score would not be able to choose to do so.

(03-25-2019, 12:29 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Apparently at the Owner's Meeting this weekend, they voted on a different way to do the onside kick. The new safety rules last year made it impossible to recover a kick. So now they they are going the AAF way and implementing, if you want the ball back, you can have an untimed down and need to gain 15 yards. You make it you get the ball back and if not then the opposing team gets the ball....

I REALLY don't like this.

Now teams can just decide to keep going for it, especially if they have momentum or whatever; yeah its the rule, but it takes away, "fairness," IMO.

That means that hypothetically, the opposing offense can NEVER get the ball, throughout an entire game, as the "kicking team," can decide to constantly go for it.

I know that won't happen, but I don't like this idea at all.

(03-25-2019, 01:13 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: I think the way the AAF does it is that the team has to be behind in the score to select that option.  I think it is something like down by at least 17 points or down by any point amount with 5 minutes left in the forth quarter.  So a team with a lead or tied score would not be able to choose to do so.

Now THAT makes more sense; I can't remember the rules for the AAF (HAVE been watching it and following it), but I have only seen it towards the end of the game.

(03-25-2019, 01:13 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I REALLY don't like this.

Now teams can just decide to keep going for it, especially if they have momentum or whatever; yeah its the rule, but it takes away, "fairness," IMO.

That means that hypothetically, the opposing offense can NEVER get the ball, throughout an entire game, as the "kicking team," can decide to constantly go for it.

I know that won't happen, but I don't like this idea at all.

It can only be used once a game and in the 4th quarter. My question is if it's a failed the attempt does the opposing team get the ball where either the ball ends up or on the 35 yard line if it's an incompletion.

(03-25-2019, 01:03 PM)Synric Wrote: Does anyone know where the ball is spotted if it's a failed conversion?

 
From what I understand in the AAF if the attempt fails the other team takes possession of the ball.  In the AAF the attempt starts at the 28 yard line.  So if they fail the other team gets it at the final spot of the play. Examples: A failed attempt resulted in a 5 yard pass the opponent would get it on the 33 yard line. An incomplete pass the opponent would get it on the 28.

Info on Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onside_kick#Alternatives_to_onside_kicks

Edited: Correction

(03-25-2019, 01:17 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote:  
From what I understand in the AAF if the attempt fails the other team takes possession of the ball.  In the AAF the attempt starts at the 28 yard line.  So if they fail to convert the other team gets the ball on the 28.

That make it a big gamble. I haven't seen the AAF use this yet... I know I just wasnt paying attention though lol.

I kind of liked onside kicks, but they made them near impossible to recover.

This rule isn't terrible, but with the high powered offenses, I could def see teams converting this.

(03-25-2019, 01:19 PM)Synric Wrote: That make it a big gamble. I haven't seen the AAF use this yet... I know I just wasnt paying attention though lol.

Mhm, its happened I think... 9 times, thus far?

Its been converted a few times too.

(03-25-2019, 01:13 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: That means that hypothetically, the opposing offense can NEVER get the ball, throughout an entire game, as the "kicking team," can decide to constantly go for it.

Same thing could happen with the current on-side kick rules.




I actually made a thread about this a year or so back.  Basically you make the kickoff a 4th-and-15.  Teams can either punt (instead of kick off) or go for it.  They could even fake the punt to go for it.

Punts are much safer than kickoffs because you don't have entire teams running full speed at each other.  So just have a punt instead of a kickoff.  That way the return game is still important, but with fewer injuries.

(03-25-2019, 01:19 PM)Synric Wrote: That make it a big gamble. I haven't seen the AAF use this yet... I know I just wasnt paying attention though lol.

The defense has the advantage but converting isn't the virtual impossibility of an onside kick.  They might be getting this one right.

(03-25-2019, 01:47 PM)McC Wrote: The defense has the advantage but converting isn't the virtual impossibility of an onside kick.  They might be getting this one right.

With how teams converted 3rd and long on us last year...

(03-25-2019, 01:13 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: I think the way the AAF does it is that the team has to be behind in the score to select that option.  I think it is something like down by at least 17 points or down by any point amount with 5 minutes left in the fourth quarter.  So a team with a lead or tied score would not be able to choose to do so.

(03-25-2019, 01:17 PM)Synric Wrote: It can only be used once a game and in the 4th quarter.

These rules are total crap.  Why limit the option for a surprise on-side kick?  That makes no sense at all.

And if you are down by more than one score then you should be able to try more than one on-side kick or 4th-15 conversion.

(03-25-2019, 01:48 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: With how teams converted 3rd and long on us last year...

Opponents converted 2 of 14 third downs needing 15 or more yards against us last year.

(03-25-2019, 12:29 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Apparently at the Owner's Meeting this weekend, they voted on a different way to do the onside kick. The new safety rules last year made it impossible to recover a kick. So now they they are going the AAF way and implementing, if you want the ball back, you can have an untimed down and need to gain 15 yards. You make it you get the ball back and if not then the opposing team gets the ball....

Football becomes less and less football. At the rate they are going I will not recognize the game in 10 years.