(03-25-2019, 02:01 PM)depthchart Wrote: Recent history shows that some very talented QB's have fallen to right around the pick #11 general area.

Deshaun Watson went at #12 overall.

Patrick Mahomes at pick #10 that same year.

Josh Rosen went at #10 overall last Draft.

All right in that pick #11 general range and they had more prototypical height than Kyler Murray has.

** Virtually every Draft has players falling down further than the Pre Draft Mock consensus and this year will be no different. It is yet to be determined which players rise and fall.

Josh Rosen #10
Blaine Gabbert #10
Matt Leinert #10
Jay Cutler #11
Christian Ponder #12

Just no. Cincinnati needs to draft the best linebacker available at #11.

(03-25-2019, 02:07 PM)Au165 Wrote: Watson and Mahomes were never top 10 picks coming in to the draft. Rosen slipped because of a run on QB's in general, a run that left him as the bottom man in the hunt for a QB. In this scenario Murray would be QB 2, so I stand by and dream of him at 11 is pretty farfetched. 

The dolphins have expressed interest in trading up for a QB along with the Redskins. The Lions have actually been working out all the QB's as well. Right now the general belief is the Jets at 3 are the target people are looking to, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that the Jags at 7 may be the place to jump to. 

Mahomes was the 2nd QB taken in his Draft at pick #10 in 2017 with prototypical height.  (Mitchell Tribisky went #2 overall.)

I would give it a 25% chance that Murray could make it to pick #11.

Broncos at 10 and Bengals at #11 may be the trading partners teams use to get up for Murray and if the Bengals were to feign interest in being willing to trade out of pick #11 it could hold a team back from dealing with Denver.

Farfetched seems too strong a word.

More likely than not Murray goes before pick #11 then I would agree.

It takes a lot of Draft capital to trade into those higher spots.

I would give it a 33% chance Murray makes it to pick #10 and a 25% chance that Murray could make it to pick #11.

Far from Zero.   IMO

Bengals could draft White, Hockenson, Wilkins in round 1 and still get either Jones in round two or Stidham in round 3.

In this scenario, I would rather call up Miami and Washington to see if either team wants to trade up for the pick. I would move down a few spots for an extra 3rd round pick

(03-25-2019, 02:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Josh Rosen #10
Blaine Gabbert #10
Matt Leinert #10
Jay Cutler #11
Christian Ponder #12

I get where you are coming from, Fred.

It is a high risk move to take Kyler Murray.

Maybe you have convinced me to hold onto Dalton longer (as the Pistons suggested) while I would still take Murray.

The Bengals are already betting on Zac Taylor as the next Sean McVay.

I would Double Down and bet on Kyler Murray being the next Russell Wilson (so to speak)

I swing for TWO Grand Slams (the next Sean McVay & the next Russell Wilson) (Zac Taylor/Kyler Murray) and take on the High Risk that you are pointing out.

Could backfire (as you suggest) but what if it doesn't ?

I would make some noise, go for it and hang my tush out on a limb...

(03-25-2019, 02:21 PM)depthchart Wrote: Mahomes was the 2nd QB taken in his Draft at pick #10 in 2017 with prototypical height.  (Mitchell Tribisky went #2 overall.)

I would give it a 25% chance that Murray could make it to pick #11.

Broncos at 10 and Bengals at #11 may be the trading partners teams use to get up for Murray and if the Bengals were to feign interest in being willing to trade out of pick #11 it could hold a team back from dealing with Denver.

Farfetched seems too strong a word.

More likely than not Murray goes before pick #11 then I would agree.

It takes a lot of Draft capital to trade into those higher spots.

I would give it a 33% chance Murray makes it to pick #10 and a 25% chance that Murray could make it to pick #11.

Far from Zero.   IMO

Vegas has him at -200 at pick 9.5. Vegas says he is pretty much a lock top 10 pick. 

He's not making it to #11.

(03-25-2019, 03:38 PM)Au165 Wrote: Vegas has him at -200 at pick 9.5. Vegas says he is pretty much a lock top 10 pick. 

9.5 is pretty close to 11 with only 1 pick between 9.5 and 11.  (pick 10)

I agree that he most likely won't be there at pick #11 but if he is I would take him.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out and what the Bengal Plan really is.

(03-25-2019, 03:52 PM)depthchart Wrote: 9.5 is pretty close to 11 with only 1 pick between 9.5 and 11.  (pick 10)

I agree that he most likely won't be there at pick #11 but if he is I would take him.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out and what the Bengal Plan really is.

the pln is what has been stated repeatedly.  Andy Dalton is the QB and the plan is to build the rest of the team.

(03-25-2019, 03:11 PM)depthchart Wrote: I get where you are coming from, Fred.

It is a high risk move to take Kyler Murray.

Maybe you have convinced me to hold onto Dalton longer (as the Pistons suggested) while I would still take Murray.

The Bengals are already betting on Zac Taylor as the next Sean McVay.

I would Double Down and bet on Kyler Murray being the next Russell Wilson (so to speak)

I swing for TWO Grand Slams (the next Sean McVay & the next Russell Wilson) (Zac Taylor/Kyler Murray) and take on the High Risk that you are pointing out.

Could backfire (as you suggest) but what if it doesn't ?

I would make some noise, go for it and hang my tush out on a limb...

Why double your chances of losing when you don't have to?

Or do you really think that McVey had nothing to do with Goff going as successful as he was?  If that was true then why was Goff so bad before McVey arrived?

(03-25-2019, 03:56 PM)McC Wrote: the pln is what has been stated repeatedly.  Andy Dalton is the QB and the plan is to build the rest of the team.

Likely so.

Teams do, however, put up smoke screens (so to speak) then pivot out of what the general consensus is of what they will do.

They also have players ranked and could have Kyler Murray ranked high on their Board (not expecting him to fall) but if he does he could be their choice. or Dwayne Haskins etc.

That said, I agree with you. This is the Bengals and they have stated their support for Dalton & would likely shy away from any move this provocative or out of the box.

(03-25-2019, 04:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why double your chances of losing when you don't have to?

Or do you really think that McVey had nothing to do with Goff going as successful as he was?  If that was true then why was Goff so bad before McVey arrived?

Not sure I see your parallel.

I obviously championed McVay and hoped Zac is the next McVay.

Goff had just 2 seasons under his belt making him a young QB as Murray would also be.

I believe Goff was 23 years old when McVay took over and McVay made him better.

Zac may want another youngster of his own to groom in a McVay fashion but the veteran Dalton may be his choice.

(03-25-2019, 04:18 PM)depthchart Wrote: Not sure I see your parallel.

I obviously championed McVay and hoped Zac is the next McVay.

Goff had just 2 seasons under his belt making him a young QB as Murray would also be.

I believe Goff was 23 years old when McVay took over and McVay made him better.

Zac may want another youngster of his own to groom in a McVay fashion but the veteran Dalton may be his choice.

If Zac is the next McVey then Dalton will flourish under him like Goff did.  So you don't need to take TWO huge gambles when you only need one to win.  You are doubling your chances of losing when you don't have to.

(03-25-2019, 01:18 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You do realize that the Redskins traded for Case Keenum?

They're not going to trade for Dalton too.

We have seen teams double down on QB's either through FA and draft or draft multiple QB's so not likely, but possible. AD was not an available option right now for Skins, if we draft Murray, then Bengals may make AD available or may wait  year to trade him.

I do think very slim chance Murray is available at #11 though.

Dalton will flourish under Taylor.
just having a healthy Eifert is a bonus in itself.
now you throw in multiple formation concepts that Lazor
was not fond of...Andy could have a Pro Bowl year and then some.

We can only hope that if Murray is there that they use it as bait to trade down and acquire some other selections or that they leave him on the board and select someone else.

Dalton is the best ever why trade him away? 8 more years please.

Hmmmmm, let me see... on one hand we have an offer to keep Dalton and have a seasoned veteran QB with the 2nd fastest release in the league, who will be getting all his targets back healthy this year, and who the new coach says fits perfectly with the system he is going to implement... or, and we call this a counter offer... We could go with an unproven, under height rookie QB, who will most likely be running for his life behind this oline all season.... hmmmmm….. I dunno….. I could use a QB getting a butt kicking all season..... but I think I'm going with option 1.

(03-25-2019, 04:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If Zac is the next McVey then Dalton will flourish under him like Goff did.  So you don't need to take TWO huge gambles when you only need one to win.  You are doubling your chances of losing when you don't have to.

That makes sense.

If Zac is NOT the next McVay, then it may take a special talent at the QB position to offset the gamble on Zac.

I still would consider it a Luxury to have Murray sitting there when we pick at #11.

Use Dalton in 2019 while monitoring Murray's progress as Murray pushes to be the starter.

Could hit it Big on Zac & Murray but I see your point.

We will likely get to see how your ONE Gamble option plays out as Dalton will likely be the starter with minimal competition behind him.