(03-26-2019, 05:50 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: As bad as the LBs were last year and he only got in for ELEVEN snaps then that should tell you about his NFL skill level.

That’s your belief, but there’s no proof of that being true. Look at Westerman. He’s been better than Redmond every time he’s been on the field but the team still chose Redmond over him. Basically we don’t know why a certain player hasn’t seen the field more. So assuming it’s because they suck could be a false assumption.


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Jefferson was over drafted coming out. He was a guy who rode a high HS national ranking into drafting on potential. He has solid physical skills but his technique wasn’t good at Texas and he was slow to diagnose. Hated the pick then and dont expect him to be much in the future.

(03-26-2019, 05:50 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: As bad as the LBs were last year and he only got in for ELEVEN snaps then that should tell you about his NFL skill level.

No frankly it does not. You are talking about a staff that for a good period of time has shown a reluctance to play rookies for extended periods unless they absolutely have to. So no it states nothing really about his skill level. I will take terrible assumptions for $200 Alex.

(03-26-2019, 07:37 PM)Au165 Wrote: Jefferson was over drafted coming out. He was a guy who rode a high HS national ranking into drafting on potential. He has solid physical skills but his technique wasn’t good at Texas and he was slow to diagnose. Hated the pick then and dont expect him to be much in the future.

That's just not true, either.  He had good stats at Texas.  Some even had him projected as a 1st round pick, for a few minutes.  The problem is the same as with so many other physically talented LB types, they aren't cerebral enough to process the big picture, they just see and go like a rocket.  The problem with the cerebral guy is they diagnose the play well, but just don't have the physical talents to excel in the NFL.  

(03-24-2019, 01:47 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Other teams occasionally get 3rd, 4th, 5th Round picks who can start and make impacts early in their careers. It would be great if Jefferson could be that guy for us.

Other teams, or, you know, the Bengals. Geno Atkins (4th), Shawn Williams (3rd), Clint Bolling (4th), and Kevin Huber (5th) are clear impact players that they drafted in those rounds. You can throw guys like Nick Vigil (3rd), Andrew Billings (4th), CJ Uzomah (5th), Sam Hubbard (3rd) and Carl Lawson (4th) into the pile as contributors they grabbed in those rounds as well. Or heck, count guys who've since left like Micheal Johnson (3rd), Domata Peko (4th), Marvin Jones (5th), and George Iloka (5th).

But I guess we can close our eyes and pretend like the Bengals never have any success in those middle rounds if you want. If only they could have the luck that all those other teams have! 

(03-26-2019, 07:51 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's just not true, either.  He had good stats at Texas.  Some even had him projected as a 1st round pick, for a few minutes.  The problem is the same as with so many other physically talented LB types, they aren't cerebral enough to process the big picture, they just see and go like a rocket.  The problem with the cerebral guy is they diagnose the play well, but just don't have the physical talents to excel in the NFL.  

I never said he didn’t have okay stats, not great especially when looking at advanced coverage stats. What I said was his technique was bad and he was slow to diagnose. Both those things are 100% true and tend to get exposed in the NFL. Evans is basically the same player.

He was projected as a day 3 fringe late day 2 guy. Someone calling him a day 1 guy is as crazy as Jpopre calling Murray a 3rd rounder haha.

(03-26-2019, 08:49 PM)Au165 Wrote: I never said he didn’t have okay stats, not great especially when looking at advanced coverage stats. What I said was his technique was bad and he was slow to diagnose. Both those things are 100% true and tend to get exposed in the NFL. Evans is basically the same player.

He was projected as a day 3 fringe late day 2 guy. Someone calling him a day 1 guy is as crazy as Jpopre calling Murray a 3rd rounder haha.

This. He terrible in zone coverage but if you tell him to see ball n tackle he might be okay. Just limit his responsibility

(03-26-2019, 08:52 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: This. He terrible in zone coverage but if you tell him to see ball n tackle he might be okay. Just limit his responsibility

Right, to me if we wanted to play him as a SAM with limited coverage responsibilities and a focus on run stopping he’d be a serviceable starter.

(03-26-2019, 08:49 PM)Au165 Wrote: He was projected as a day 3 fringe late day 2 guy. Someone calling him a day 1 guy is as crazy as Jpopre calling Murray a 3rd rounder haha.

Multiple draft sites had him listed as a possible first round selection.

(03-26-2019, 09:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Multiple draft sites had him listed as a possible first round selection.

By April he was a consensus 3rd or 4th rounder. Mayock, Zierlin, Kiper, Mcshay all had him between a 3rd or 4th. Interestingly enough...NFL teams agreed with that assessment.

Maybe he got a ton better in his redshirt year in the NFL. I just know the guy who came out was not a first round player if you watched tape and not highlights of sacks.

(03-26-2019, 07:43 PM)OSUfan Wrote: No frankly it does not. You are talking about a staff that for a good period of time has shown a reluctance to play rookies for extended periods unless they absolutely have to. So no it states nothing really about his skill level. I will take terrible assumptions for $200 Alex.

Yeah great pick. He'll be at least as good as Dawson.

(03-26-2019, 08:49 PM)Au165 Wrote: I never said he didn’t have okay stats, not great especially when looking at advanced coverage stats. What I said was his technique was bad and he was slow to diagnose. Both those things are 100% true and tend to get exposed in the NFL. Evans is basically the same player.

He was projected as a day 3 fringe late day 2 guy. Someone calling him a day 1 guy is as crazy as Jpopre calling Murray a 3rd rounder haha.

The thing is Jefferson and Evans issues are correctable with coaching and scheme. You can't coach their size and athletisim.

Even if the Bengals draft a Linebacker at 11 and another in the mid rounds chances are still very high at LEAST one of these two guys are going to see significant amount of snaps on defense.

I am looking forward to seeing how Captian Lou deploys his defense because Austin Teryl dared QBs to attack the middle of the field with his scheme putting alot of stress on a young and beat up linebacker core.  After Marvin took over he varied his defense more and it took some heat off the linebackers and the played better at the end of the year.

(03-26-2019, 08:09 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Other teams, or, you know, the Bengals. Geno Atkins (4th), Shawn Williams (3rd), Clint Bolling (4th), and Kevin Huber (5th) are clear impact players that they drafted in those rounds. You can throw guys like Nick Vigil (3rd), Andrew Billings (4th), CJ Uzomah (5th), Sam Hubbard (3rd) and Carl Lawson (4th) into the pile as contributors they grabbed in those rounds as well. Or heck, count guys who've since left like Micheal Johnson (3rd), Domata Peko (4th), Marvin Jones (5th), and George Iloka (5th).

But I guess we can close our eyes and pretend like the Bengals never have any success in those middle rounds if you want. If only they could have the luck that all those other teams have! 

Vigil, Billings, Uzomah have shown some promise but are meh players so far. How about Dawson, Moch, Ghee, Coffman, Charles, Walton? You can't just list the hits.

(03-26-2019, 09:46 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote:  You can't just list the hits.

Apparently you can when you talk about the players other teams get in those mid rounds.

Just like when you talk about drafting a QB in the first round the only one you mention is Patrick MaHomes.

(03-26-2019, 09:46 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Vigil, Billings, Uzomah have shown some promise but are meh players so far. How about Dawson, Moch, Ghee, Coffman, Charles, Walton? You can't just list the hits.

About a week ago, someone posted the percentage of turning into a regular starter percentage for each position, according to round drafted.  I can't find it at the moment, but someone will.  Anyway, as I recall, the Bengals have done at least as well as most teams, at getting value from the middle round picks.  So, while you're faulting the other guy for putting out the successes, you can't think you're being fair by only mentioning the guys that didn't pan out.  Just remember, guys "fall" to the middle rounds, usually for a reason.  Sometimes that reason is proven to be unfounded, and teams enjoy the luxury of a great player at a middle round price.  Other times, teams think they are getting a great talent at a premium, only to discover that they were just "system players" with inflated stats in college.

(03-26-2019, 09:41 PM)Synric Wrote: The thing is Jefferson and Evans issues are correctable with coaching and scheme. You can't coach their size and athletisim.

Even if the Bengals draft a Linebacker at 11 and another in the mid rounds chances are still very high at LEAST one of these two guys are going to see significant amount of snaps on defense.

I am looking forward to seeing how Captian Lou deploys his defense because Austin Teryl dared QBs to attack the middle of the field with his scheme putting alot of stress on a young and beat up linebacker core.  After Marvin took over he varied his defense more and it took some heat off the linebackers and the played better at the end of the year.

Every team in the NFL has 3 of 4 of these guys on their rosters they are a dime a dozen hence why they are drafted so late. Now someone with size speed n instincts like Luke , Shazier n Mosley are why they are drafted in round 1.

(03-26-2019, 10:03 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Every team in the NFL has 3 of 4 of these guys on their rosters they are a dime a dozen hence why they are drafted so late.  Now someone with size speed n instincts like Luke , Shazier n Mosley are why they are drafted in round 1.

I'm sure someone will come along and give you a long list of good linebackers playing that were drafted outside of the first round and I can guarentee that it's a long list.

What you are not grasping is the fact at least Jefferson or Evans will see significant amount of snaps on defense so we have to hope they improve. How often did we see Vinny Rey in his Bengals 10 year starting multiple games.

(03-26-2019, 10:10 PM)Synric Wrote: I'm sure someone will come along and give you a long list of good linebackers playing that were drafted outside of the first round and I can guarentee that it's a long list.

What you are not grasping is the fact at least Jefferson or Evans will see significant amount of snaps on defense so we have to hope they improve. How often did we see Vinny Rey in his Bengals 10 year starting multiple games.

Wagner, Hicks, Alexander, Brown and on and on.

While true, a lot of the top guys don’t come off the field so much. Seemed like Vinny Rey’s appearance here were often related to Burfict being hurt so often. It almost feels like Vinny Rey owes his longevity to Burfict haha

(03-26-2019, 10:10 PM)Synric Wrote: I'm sure someone will come along and give you a long list of good linebackers playing that were drafted outside of the first round and I can guarentee that it's a long list.

What you are not grasping is the fact at least Jefferson or Evans will see significant amount of snaps on defense so we have to hope they improve. How often did we see Vinny Rey in his Bengals 10 year starting multiple games.

All I’m saying they are nothing special you guys act like they are are a rare breed 6 02 225 with speed n have tons of potential. Evans has stunk in two years n was a late rounder I don’t see the potential. Linebackers are one of the position rookies make an immediate impact using their natural instincts aka , Burfict , Kuechley, Willis , Leonard n Shazier. Running back is another position rookies make an impact

(03-26-2019, 09:46 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Vigil, Billings, Uzomah have shown some promise but are meh players so far. How about Dawson, Moch, Ghee, Coffman, Charles, Walton? You can't just list the hits.

Yeah they've missed on a few guys, but so does every other team in those rounds. I mean I know some like to think that only the Bengals mess anything up around here, but come on. Use some common sense.

Hell, one of those guys you mentioned is still in the league. Not saying he's a great player by any stretch of the imagination, but I bet a lot of 4th rounders over the years that other teams chose would trade places with Orson Charles in a heartbeat.