Malik Jefferson, any chance?

[Catmandude123]

(03-26-2019, 09:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Apparently you can when you talk about the players other teams get in those mid rounds.

Just like when you talk about drafting a QB in the first round the only one you mention is Patrick MaHomes.

The Chiefs gambled and won. Some people would rather go on with the status quo and discount others who would rather gamble. Their are risks both ways but like you like to say "there aren't any guarantees". It's good to have a place to voice your opinions but you can't have thin skin. BTW I don't remember any post about Mahomes but then I am getting up in age and forget things now and again.

[Socal Bengals fan]

I say we Gamble on a quarterback or are we content going 6 n 10 every year. 8 years zero playoff wins to show

[fredtoast]

(03-26-2019, 11:54 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: I say we Gamble on a quarterback or are we content going 6 n 10 every year.  

That makes so much sense because we have never won more than 6 games a season with Dalton.

[Socal Bengals fan]

(03-27-2019, 12:53 AM)fredtoast Wrote: That makes so much sense because we have never won more than 6 games a season with Dalton.

8 years zero playoff wins . Last 3 years haven’t won more than 6 games. Sounds like we should keep the magnificent quarterback we have. Why change ?

[fredtoast]

(03-27-2019, 12:56 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: 8 years zero playoff wins    .  Last 3 years haven’t won more than 6 games.  Sounds like we should keep the magnificent quarterback we have.  Why change ?

If we are just going to change random things why not get rid of Geno Atkins and AJ Green?  Why not start punting on third down?  

8 years and no playoff wins punting on 4th down.  We have to change, right?





Or, how about instead we look at what the big problems have been and correct those?

[Socal Bengals fan]

(03-27-2019, 02:07 AM)fredtoast Wrote: If we are just going to change random things why not get rid of Geno Atkins and AJ Green?  Why not start punting on third down?  

8 years and no playoff wins punting on 4th down.  We have to change, right?





Or, how about instead we look at what the big problems have been and correct those?

Now your being silly. Everyone knows those two are elite players. Dalton is a different story. You might be the only one who thinks he’s elite and his wife. Go to bed already

[McC]

(03-26-2019, 11:28 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: The Chiefs gambled and won. Some people would rather go on with the status quo and discount others who would rather gamble. Their are risks both ways but like you like to say "there aren't any guarantees". It's good to have a place to voice your opinions but you can't have thin skin. BTW I don't remember any post about Mahomes but then I am getting up in age and forget things now and again.

Eight teams besides the Bengals passed on Mahomes.  Would they have if they had known?  And he didn't play until the very end of his rookie year and the Chiefs still made the playoffs, meaning they were a playoff caliber team even without him.  They had a good team around him when he took over.  Would we have had a good team around him or would he have been running for his life and doing very little?

The point is, there is a helluva lot of 20/20 hindsight that goes on around the whole Patrick Mahomes conversation.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(03-26-2019, 09:59 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: About a week ago, someone posted the percentage of turning into a regular starter percentage for each position, according to round drafted.  I can't find it at the moment, but someone will.  Anyway, as I recall, the Bengals have done at least as well as most teams, at getting value from the middle round picks.  So, while you're faulting the other guy for putting out the successes, you can't think you're being fair by only mentioning the guys that didn't pan out.  Just remember, guys "fall" to the middle rounds, usually for a reason.  Sometimes that reason is proven to be unfounded, and teams enjoy the luxury of a great player at a middle round price.  Other times, teams think they are getting a great talent at a premium, only to discover that they were just "system players" with inflated stats in college.

Mikey the tree sloth loves to use that stat "our team has the most players drafted on its roster than any other'. But that stat is useless unless related to team performance. No playoff wins since 1991 so it does not matter how many draft picks make the roster. What matters is the TOTAL approach to player personnel and development which leads directly to team success. 

We all know the team has been the worst in the league or near worst in drafting LB's, so there is no evidence that Vigil, Evens and Jefferson will amount to anything other than 'drafted players on the roster'. Sure they need better coaching but it may not be good enough. The LB and OL group needs a large influx of talent. 

[Catmandude123]

(03-27-2019, 06:11 AM)McC Wrote: Eight teams besides the Bengals passed on Mahomes.  Would they have if they had known?  And he didn't play until the very end of his rookie year and the Chiefs still made the playoffs, meaning they were a playoff caliber team even without him.  They had a good team around him when he took over.  Would we have had a good team around him or would he have been running for his life and doing very little?

The point is, there is a helluva lot of 20/20 hindsight that goes on around the whole Patrick Mahomes conversation.

Hindsight is 20/20 but because something bad happened before doesn't mean it will happen every time. 32 teams passed on Brady five times each. But to say Murry is going to be a bust only shows you ignore destiny. If the Bengals took Mahomes or Brady there is little to suggest either would be the players they turned out to be with their current teams. Most people like to call a player a bust but in reality their team was the ones who failed to either coach them right, surround them with others who make it easy for them to succeed or just totally drafted them in the wrong spot. The only way a player is a bust imo is when he is injured and can't play. The team must take players that fit their team not what others think they need. Ross is a perfect example. Taking him at number nine was as foolish as it gets. Andy can't throw accurately on deep passes or have the time to throw said passes. But fans want to gripe about Ross when it was a FO mistake to draft him.

[Socal Bengals fan]

(03-27-2019, 10:51 AM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: Mikey the tree sloth loves to use that stat "our team has the most players drafted on its roster than any other'. But that stat is useless unless related to team performance. No playoff wins since 1991 so it does not matter how many draft picks make the roster. What matters is the TOTAL approach to player personnel and development which leads directly to team success. 

We all know the team has been the worst in the league or near worst in drafting LB's, so there is no evidence that Vigil, Evens and Jefferson will amount to anything other than 'drafted players on the roster'. Sure they need better coaching but it may not be good enough. The LB and OL group needs a large influx of talent. 

Dead on

[fredtoast]

(03-27-2019, 03:48 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Now your being silly.  Everyone knows those two are elite players.  Dalton is a different story.  You might be the only one who thinks he’s elite and his wife. Go to bed already

My point obviously went ovet your head. If you say that a player is bad just because the team fails then you have to apply that to every player.

Also i never said dalton was elite. You just made that up because you had no answer to what i actually said.

[Whodey614]

(03-26-2019, 04:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Except that never happened.  We traded for Glen and signed Hart.  The Bengals never said Ogbuehi and Fisher would be starting.

I never claimed that they said Ogbuehi and Fisher would start. Pollack finding the best RG between Westerman or Redmond and the best RT between Ogbuehi or Fisher was the most talked about subject last offseason. No one even considered Hart because he was dismissed as a camp body and a backup at worst. You bring up that they signed Hart as if that was a tremendous effort by them trying to fix the line.

[Socal Bengals fan]

(03-27-2019, 02:21 PM)Whodey614 Wrote: I never claimed that they said Ogbuehi and Fisher would start. Pollack finding the best RG between Westerman or Redmond and the best RT between Ogbuehi or Fisher was the most talked about subject last offseason. No one even considered Hart because he was dismissed as a camp body and a backup at worst. You bring up that they signed Hart as if that was a tremendous effort by them trying to fix the line.

Exactly he only started because the great Ogbuehi n Fisher were so damn terrible he started by default. He was so bad in Nrw York they didn’t even tender him. Buy Cincy will sign him to 8 million contract.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Of course there is a chance with Malik, especially now that Haslett is gone. The biggest negative with Jefferson was the mental part of the game but he is enormously talented and with our new LB coach he will now have a chance. I can not emphasize enough how bad of a coach Haslett was.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-26-2019, 03:22 PM)Whodey614 Wrote:  Just like how they sold us that Frank Pollack was going to turn Fisher and Ogbuehi into starters.

(03-26-2019, 04:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Except that never happened.  We traded for Glen and signed Hart.  The Bengals never said Ogbuehi and Fisher would be starting.

(03-27-2019, 02:21 PM)Whodey614 Wrote: I never claimed that they said Ogbuehi and Fisher would start.

FWIW, Frank Pollack did a damn fine job, with what he had to work with.  Before the injuries took their toll on the team for the season, the offense was able to score behind that shitty line.

Weather you actually stated that Fisher and Ogbuehi would be starters is just syntax.  You threw out a statement that could easily be construed as implying that they were intended to be the starters.  My suggestion would be that if you don't like catching heat for throwing things out there, be careful what you throw out there.  This is coming from a guy that catches plenty of heat for things that I throw out there..

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-27-2019, 06:29 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: FWIW, Frank Pollack did a damn fine job, with what he had to work with.  Before the injuries took their toll on the team for the season, the offense was able to score behind that shitty line.

Weather you actually stated that Fisher and Ogbuehi would be starters is just syntax.  You threw out a statement that could easily be construed as implying that they were intended to be the starters.  My suggestion would be that if you don't like catching heat for throwing things out there, be careful what you throw out there.  This is coming from a guy that catches plenty of heat for things that I throw out there..

Yeah Sunset, if there is one place i think we regressed this Offseason it is from Pollack to Turner but we will see.

[Socal Bengals fan]

(03-27-2019, 06:32 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah Sunset, if there is one place i think we regressed this Offseason it is from Pollack to Turner but we will see.

Agreee. Huuuge downgrade

[SunsetBengal]

(03-27-2019, 06:55 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Agreee.   Huuuge downgrade

We'll have to wait and see, as we haven't seen the results of any of our new coaching staff yet.  However, just from surface observations, it is looking dicey..

[*bengalfan74*]

(03-27-2019, 05:52 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Of course there is a chance with Malik, especially now that Haslett is gone. The biggest negative with Jefferson was the mental part of the game but he is enormously talented and with our new LB coach he will now have a chance. I can not emphasize enough how bad of a coach Haslett was.

Yep

I believe Haslett was leading the race for the worst position coach in the NFL. I wouldn't surprise me at all if Jefferson improves a lot this season.

And that is another puzzle of the ML tenure. Why would the LBer whisperer be content to ride with such a bad coach ?

[KillerGoose]

(03-26-2019, 12:09 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: No he wasn't.

He wasn’t as bad as Nickerson, and it could be argued that I’m being hyperbolic but he was indeed rather bad. His specialty as a “pass coverage” linebacker has not come to fruition. He’s not a good run defender, either.

He has the physical tools to be a good player, but he isn’t there yet.