Will the Bengals really go with a LBer in the 1st round of the draft ?

Here's the history of LBers drafted under MB thru the top 3 rounds:

Round 1

1998 - T. Spikes 1-13 B. Simmons 1-17
2005 - D. Pollack 1-17 *
2008 - K. Rivers 1-9 *

Round 2

2005 - O. Thurman 2-16*
2009 - R. Maualuga*

Round 3

1993 S. Tovar 3-59
1998 S. Foley 3-75
2004 C. Miller 3-80 L. Johnson 3-96*
2011 D. Moch 3-66*
2015 P. Dawson 3-99*
2016 N. Vigil 3-87*
2018 M. Jefferson 3-78*

* = under ML

With our GM now for 28 seasons we've drafted four 1st rounders. The first two, Spikes and Simmons were two of the better LBers we've drafted under Mike. Pollack may well have been great one but had his career cut short with a broken vertebrae in his neck. Rivers had a couple decent seasons then had his jaw broken by Whines Hard and never recovered.

Our two second rounders Thurman and Maualuga. Thurman looked like a superstar in the making but couldn't get his life away from football together and fizzled out quickly. Maualuga had a decent career but was a giant liability in coverage.

Our 3rd rounders under Marvin have had little success. Caleb Miller fizzled out, Johnson had some success. Moch and Dawson both had short NFL careers. Vigil has shown a bit of promise and Jefferson is a giant question mark.

So really the only LBers drafted by MB with any longterm success were Spikes, Simmons, and Tovar all pre Marvin. And Maualuga under Marvin.

Isn't it time we broke this chain of draft failures at LBer and get a great LBer in the 1st round ? I'd love to be able to watch a Bengals game without us getting torched up the middle by TE's, crossing routes, and RB's.

They have to in my opinion. the drop off after the top 2 is too great to risk missing out on.

(03-28-2019, 01:20 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Will the Bengals really go with a LBer in the 1st round of the draft ?

Here's the history of LBers drafted under MB thru the top 3 rounds:

Round 1

1998 - T. Spikes 1-13 B. Simmons 1-17
2005 - D. Pollack 1-17 *
2008 - K. Rivers 1-9 *

Round 2

2005 - O. Thurman 2-16*
2009 - R. Maualuga*

Round 3

1993 S. Tovar 3-59
1998 S. Foley 3-75
2004 C. Miller 3-80 L. Johnson 3-96*
2011 D. Moch 3-66*
2015 P. Dawson 3-99*
2016 N. Vigil 3-87*
2018 M. Jefferson 3-78*

* = under ML

With our GM now for 28 seasons we've drafted four 1st rounders. The first two, Spikes and Simmons were two of the better LBers we've drafted under Mike. Pollack may well have been great one but had his career cut short with a broken vertebrae in his neck. Rivers had a couple decent seasons then had his jaw broken by Whines Hard and never recovered.

Our two second rounders Thurman and Maualuga. Thurman looked like a superstar in the making but couldn't get his life away from football together and fizzled out quickly. Maualuga had a decent career but was a giant liability in coverage.

Our 3rd rounders under Marvin have had little success. Caleb Miller fizzled out, Johnson had some success. Moch and Dawson both had short NFL careers. Vigil has shown a bit of promise and Jefferson is a giant question mark.

So really the only LBers drafted by MB with any longterm success were Spikes, Simmons, and Tovar all pre Marvin. And Maualuga under Marvin.

Isn't it time we broke this chain of draft failures at LBer and get a great LBer in the 1st round ? I'd love to be able to watch a Bengals game without us getting torched up the middle by TE's, crossing routes, and RB's.

The Bengals typically employ a BPA draft philosophy with some exceptions (like Price last year).  If Devin White isn't there, then a LB won't be close to the BPA, hence I don't believe a LB will be the pick.

There are still quality starting LB's in FA like Zack Brown and Brandon Marshall. If the Bengals were sweating it, they'd have offered one of those guys a one year prove it deal.

Honestly i have no idea.

But i remember when the Bengals would NEVER use a first round pick on a TE or OG.

I have a strange feeling White n Bush will go top 10. Hope I’m wrong. But Raiders , Lions , Bills n Broncos need LB bad. My favorite right now is Bush. Really instinctive n fast as heck. Great tackler too

We'll likely see a change in philosophy with an offensive-minded HC, if not this year, then w/in the next few years. I think Lewis's background as a LB coach largely dictated them not making LB a higher priority.

(03-28-2019, 01:48 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: I have a strange feeling White n Bush will go top 10.  Hope I’m wrong. But Raiders , Lions , Bills n Broncos need LB bad.  My favorite right now is Bush.  Really instinctive n fast as heck.   Great tackler too

and Bucs

The trend for them has been not to, but thats not really gotten us anywhere. If White or Bush are there you cant pass them up.

Both Devins ran low 4.4s with 40 inch verticals We've spent years passing on these type of LBs, maybe it is time.

40s of our current linebackers...

Preston Brown 4.86
Jordan Evans 4.50
Chris Worley 4.86
Brandon Bell 4.68
Nick Vigil 4.72
Hardy Nickerson 4.78
Malik Jefferson 4.52

Just because a position is your biggest "need" does not always mean you fill that position firat in the draft.

For example, say our starting RG leaves in free agency and you have no viable back up. But you also have a weak starting LT. In that situation RG would be your biggest need, but you would be more likely to take a LT in the first round.

And it also depends on things like which position is deepest in the draft. If there is a huge difference between CBs available in the first round and the ones in the second round, but not near as much drop off in the LB class we would go CB in the first and LB in the second.

(03-28-2019, 01:43 PM)jj22 Wrote: They have to in my opinion. the drop off after the top 2 is too great to risk missing out on.

Agreed

(03-28-2019, 01:46 PM)Whatever Wrote: The Bengals typically employ a BPA draft philosophy with some exceptions (like Price last year).  If Devin White isn't there, then a LB won't be close to the BPA, hence I don't believe a LB will be the pick.

There are still quality starting LB's in FA like Zack Brown and Brandon Marshall. If the Bengals were sweating it, they'd have offered one of those guys a one year prove it deal.

With letting Burfict go and not taking someone like Marshall in free agency I don't know how they can pass up a top LBer even if it isn't White ? I'm not so sure the drop off from White to Bush is as great as some are saying ?

(03-28-2019, 02:02 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: The trend for them has been not to, but thats not really gotten us anywhere. If White or Bush are there you cant pass them up.

Yep,

It matters not if your offense can put up 25 pts. if your D gives up 30 because you can't cover underneath ! And that's been our achilles heel for quite some time.

Oliver just posting ridiculous pro day numbers he’s back the the top 10 picture.

(03-28-2019, 01:20 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: So really the only LBers drafted by MB with any longterm success were Spikes, Simmons, and Tovar all pre Marvin. And Maualuga under Marvin.

And Foley.

Guy was a DE that played SLB and was ok in coverage, then once he's in a system that suits his skillset, he gets 10 sacks.

Supremely-underrated player, wish he had a longer career.

Think they have to pick a LB'er in the first man. White or Bush are very good and after that it falls off quick. Then we can go RT in the 2nd and TE and LB'er afterwards if a decent LB'er falls to the 4th. I love that we moved on from Haslett but that was some epic poor Linebacker play last year.

with the way Free agency has gone either draft one day one or make some sort of trade during the draft

(03-28-2019, 01:48 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: I have a strange feeling White n Bush will go top 10.  Hope I’m wrong. But Raiders , Lions , Bills n Broncos need LB bad.  My favorite right now is Bush.  Really instinctive n fast as heck.   Great tackler too

We need some other team to want a QB bad enough to trade into the top 10. If 3 QBs go, then one of the Devins is likely to fall to us at 11.

(03-28-2019, 01:20 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Will the Bengals really go with a LBer in the 1st round of the draft ?...With our GM now for 28 seasons we've drafted four 1st rounders. 

It's actually 5 LB's, not 4 (see below). That's actually a decent percentage if you think about it. Excluding special teams (K/P), fullback, and generalizing S's and LB's into one position group each, there's 12 main positions for a football team to draft: QB, RB, WR, TE, T, G, C, DE, DT, LB, CB, S. So, over 30 1st round picks across 27 drafts (this'll be MB's 28th draft coming up) if all things were equal you'd figure for about 2.5 of each position over those 30 picks and 27 years, and they've taken 5 LB's. So LB's are actually double the expected rate and tied with CB's as the most frequently drafted position under MB. And we've seen at least one of each of those positions under MB (all drafts '92-present). 

QB: Klingler, Smith, Palmer (3)
HB: Carter, Perry (2)
WR: Warrick, Green, Ross (3)
TE: Gresham, Eifert (2)
T: Willie Anderson, Levi Jones, Andre Smith, Ogbuehi (4)
G: Zeitler (1)
C: Price (1)
DE: John Copeland, Justin Smith (2)
DT: Dan Wilkinson (1)
LB: Reinard Wilson*, TKO, Simmons, Pollack, Rivers (5)
CB: Jonathan Joseph, Hall, Kirkpatrick, Dennard, WJIII (5)
S: Darryl Williams (1)

* Don't forget, while Reinard Wilson was a DE in college, the Bengals were playing a 3-4 back then and switched him to LB just like they did with David Pollack years later. So they've taken 5, not 4 LB's. I remember that draft vividly because I was listening to it on the radio while at work and when the pick was announced it was "LB, FSU, Reinard Wilson" and I got pissed...in front of customers. Got in a bit of trouble at work for that pick. They flipped him back and forth but Wilson was taken to be a LB in our 3-4.

(03-28-2019, 01:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Honestly i have no idea.

But i remember when the Bengals would NEVER use a first round pick on a TE or OG.

Or a CB...Jonathan Joseph in 2006 was the first 1st round CB the Bengals ever took save for the CB/S hybrid that was Rickey Dixon. And I remember Dixon as a S, not a CB while in Cincy.

(03-28-2019, 02:06 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agreed


With letting Burfict go and not taking someone like Marshall in free agency I don't know how they can pass up a top LBer even if it isn't White ? I'm not so sure the drop off from White to Bush is as great as some are saying ?

This is a bad LB class, frankly.  If White and Bush came out last year, White would be the 4th ranked LB and Bush would be ranked 6th.  Bush wouldn't even be in the discussion as a 1st rounder, let alone at 11 in a good class.  

They are also probably of the opinion that the old staff wasn't properly developing young talent.  Except for Brown, every LB on the roster is still on their rookie deal and should be showing steady improvement.

I'm thinking if a high rated QB is still there we have to consider making some moves for more picks or draft him outright to either try and develop ourselves behind Dalton - or use as trade bait next year. And if he works out, we trade Dalton.

It gives us an extra year and 2 drafts to find our guy if they decide not to resign Dalton.

And i don't think it will be hard to unload either option considering the league is QB crazy.