(03-31-2019, 01:50 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: I’m not sure exactly what this stat says.  The LB were so bad the CBS didn’t get tested asking as they should there their percentage goes up.  He always seems getting burnt deep unless he PIs the guy and his tackling his shit.

It would seem your assessment is what is shit.

(03-31-2019, 12:01 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I think there are 2 big reasons

1.  His first three seasons were poor for a first round pick.  Once he got labeled a bust many fans refuse to acknowledge when he does play well.

2.  Some fans are just turned off by his "swagger/attitude".

1A To many penalties 

2B Poor tackling and or just totally whiffing

3 Awful at catching balls that hit him between the numbers

(03-30-2019, 11:29 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Pff ratings are all over the place. As good as they think we were last year I can't believe we weren't Super Bowl champs.

These aren't grades or, "ratings;" these are percentages based on targets vs. catches; anyone can do the math, PFF just chooses to advertise that they do it themselves.

(03-31-2019, 10:18 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: 1A To many penalties 

2B Poor tackling and or just totally whiffing

3 Awful at catching balls that hit him between the numbers

This is sadly though, a BS stat.

In 2016, he was called for PI on an OB pass from Brady, where he didn't even touch the receiver and that started NE's comeback (we were winning at that point and playing solid D). I lost my shit because it looked like he MAYBE placed his hand on the receiver's back (square in the middle of his back), while the receiver ran around him, but Dre was in position and the ball went OB. That's the most blatant BS call, but a lot of his penalties, he doesn't do anything.

On the opposite side of the coin, he also DOESN'T get the benefit of calls; Alex Collins' TD run on 4th and whatever, in the 2017 finale, was a BLATANT hold on Dre, that went uncalled (grabbed outside the numbers and tackled, by the blocking player). That happened again this year on another play, where he was tackled to the ground on a hold by a blocker, without a call.

He definitely needs to cut down on the penalties, but he's the beneficiary of a lot of bad luck and BS too.

This just goes to show the parrot phenomena, where something gets said on a message board, and people pick it up and run with it until everyone thinks it's true. Kirkpatrick does not suck, he is a good corner. If he could catch, he would be a good receiver. That's why corners play corner instead of WR. He also out hustles just about everyone else on the field and has come from the opposite side of the field to save tds on multiple occasions....

(03-31-2019, 10:37 AM)Sled21 Wrote: This just goes to show the parrot phenomena, where something gets said on a message board, and people pick it up and run with it until everyone thinks it's true. Kirkpatrick does not suck, he is a good corner. If he could catch, he would be a good receiver. That's why corners play corner instead of WR. He also out hustles just about everyone else on the field and has come from the opposite side of the field to save tds on multiple occasions....

Awk, Kirkpatrick sucks, Awk!  

(03-31-2019, 10:18 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: These aren't grades or, "ratings;" these are percentages based on targets vs. catches; anyone can do the math, PFF just chooses to advertise that they do it themselves.

I don't care if he was the number one DB in the league the defense is dysfunctional and being that football is a team sport he was also. Being the best player on the worse defense in the NFL won't get any accolades from me.  BTW PFF doesn't rank DRE in their top twenty five DBs of 2018. WJ111 was 22nd. To pick an obscure stat to tout a overpaid player only works when people don't actually watch his play. Let him go to Pittsburgh , I've watched AJ burn him in practice for years.

(03-30-2019, 11:29 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Pff ratings are all over the place. As good as they think we were last year I can't believe we weren't Super Bowl champs.

This isn't a subjective metric though. It looks at amount of snaps he plays and figures out how many catches he allows per snap. It's kind of like ERA in baseball.

(03-31-2019, 12:47 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: If Dre could capitalize on a few more picks, most people would love him.

The thing is, while he doesn't have a lot of interceptions in his career...he's got WAY more than Dennard and Jackson and people seem to love them.

I get the love for Jackson. He's a really good CB, but Dre is right there with him.

(03-31-2019, 10:12 AM)OSUfan Wrote: It would seem your assessment is what is shit.

He still sucks in my book. This stat doesn’t really mean shot anyways. Was his PFF score, anyone know.

(03-31-2019, 11:03 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: This isn't a subjective metric though. It looks at amount of snaps he plays and figures out how many catches he allows per snap. It's kind of like ERA in baseball.

The era is an individual stat that doesn't have anything to do with the other eight players on the field. Stats in the NFL are more team stats. If a RB such as Bell or Mixon get a hundred yard game it is in direct correlation to how others on the team help or hinder him.

(03-31-2019, 10:56 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: To pick an obscure stat to tout a overpaid player only works when people don't actually watch his play. 

"Watch him play" usually means criticizing a Bengal for something other players all over the league do.  People act like Dre is the only CB that ever gives up a completion.  The fact is that he compares favorably with other NFL CBs.

And Dre is my poster boy for how PFF's rankings (not stats) are a joke.  In 2015 Dre played 97% of the snaps on a top 5 pass defense and ranked in the top 30 CBs in completion percentage allowed, yds per target, and success rate, yet PFF had him ranked 112th behind a bunch of scrubs that barely even played.

(03-31-2019, 10:56 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote:  I've watched AJ burn him in practice for years.

We've all watched AJ Green burn defenders all over the league for years.  What's your point?  Are you saying that all DBs in the league are overpaid, because they've been beaten by AJ Green?

(03-31-2019, 11:14 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: He still sucks in my book.   This stat doesn’t really mean shot anyways.  Was his PFF score, anyone know.

LMAO.....well good for you.

Dre is a decent CB. I do admit I get frustrated with him sometimes when he celebrates like he just made a Super Bowl winning play, but he doesn’t deserve the hate he gets. Our DB’s are one of our more solid position groups, imo.

(03-31-2019, 11:27 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: The era is an individual stat that doesn't have anything to do with the other eight players on the field. Stats in the NFL are more team stats. If a RB such as Bell or Mixon get a hundred yard game it is in direct correlation to how others on the team help or hinder him.

ERA is kind of dependent on fielders too at some level. There are defensive runs saved stats where some guys take runs away.

There are fielding independent stats too in baseball that attempt to take the players behind the pitchers out of the equation.

(03-31-2019, 10:56 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote:  Let him go to Pittsburgh , I've watched AJ burn him in practice for years.

Well hell, if AJ Green beats him, he must really suck.... oh, wait.....

I hated the Dre K. pick; as I thought there were much better CBs in that draft. Personal favs were the Jackrabbit and Casey Heyward. Afetr his first year I knew, it was a bad pick; but I was wrong. Dude has performed well for us over the last couple years and with Burfict gone; he's the heart of the D.

(03-31-2019, 06:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I hated the Dre K. pick; as I thought there were much better CBs in that draft. Personal favs were the Jackrabbit and Casey Heyward. Afetr his first year I knew, it was a bad pick; but I was wrong. Dude has performed well for us over the last couple years and with Burfict gone; he's the heart of the D.

Yeah, I’d say him and Dunlap are the most vocal on that side of the ball at this point.

(03-31-2019, 08:23 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yeah, I’d say him and Dunlap are the most vocal on that side of the ball at this point.

Yeah I never got the double standard with this in our fanbase.
Fans want a coach and QB who yell and fire people up but complain when their CB plays with passion and intensity and what him to dial it back. Hmmmmmm never understood it.