(04-03-2019, 12:23 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Well, I hate to point it out, but that is exactly what people said about Hart last year and he ended up starting and being one of the worst RTs in the league. Of course, Mills is better than Ogbuehi and Fisher so the depth at the position would improve.

 

We had the epic Bobby Hart, Ced, and Fisher battle for RT. I'm sure ESPN will do a 30 for 30 documentary on it one day!

(04-03-2019, 11:22 AM)fredtoast Wrote: When we get the first playoff win the whiners will say celebrating a playoff win is "accepting mediocrity". All they do is move the goalposts so they can keep hating. They already refuse to acknowledge the success the bengals have had under Marvin and act like the last decade is ecactly like the 1990's.

Well, I don't see myself as a whiner, in fact, I find myself defending team moves more than I should have to. That said, I've said all along, winning one playoff game means nothing to me. If we win one and then lose, who cares. That said, it's a good thing we will be in the AFC Championship game this year......

(04-03-2019, 11:22 AM)fredtoast Wrote: When we get the first playoff win the whiners will say celebrating a playoff win is "accepting mediocrity". All they do is move the goalposts so they can keep hating. They already refuse to acknowledge the success the bengals have had under Marvin and act like the last decade is ecactly like the 1990's.

I think that most people on this board recognize Marvin's regular season success. He did that with a team with a limited scouting staff and antiquated views on free agency too. Kudos!

One would have to wonder how much success he would have had with a different franchise that approached roster building differently.

That said, 0-7 in the playoffs is an astounding fact and any owner in the league except MB would show a coach with those stats the door.

(04-03-2019, 11:22 AM)fredtoast Wrote: When we get the first playoff win the whiners will say celebrating a playoff win is "accepting mediocrity". All they do is move the goalposts so they can keep hating. They already refuse to acknowledge the success the bengals have had under Marvin and act like the last decade is ecactly like the 1990's.

Well, anything short of a championship is falling short of the goal, but there are degrees of reaching for that goal.

Exiting the playoffs in ugly losses for 5 consecutive years, followed by 3 losing seasons is a better attempt that many teams, but far short of what the winners do.

 

(04-03-2019, 12:47 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think that most people on this board recognize Marvin's regular season success. 

Some do, but the hard core whiners just talk about 27 years and act like there is no difference between the 90's and the last decade.

They don't talk about winning championships to measure great teams because the Bengals are in the majority of NFL teams that have not won a championship in the last 27 years/

And they don't talk about winning seasons, or making the playoffs, or beating good teams because the Bengals have been in the top half of the league based on those measures for the last decade.

So instead they narrow it down to just one measure i.e. "winning a playoff game".  Not winning championships.  Not having winning records.  But just winning a single playoff game.  And the only reason they use that measure is because it is the one that makes the Bengals look the worst.

(04-03-2019, 02:26 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Exiting the playoffs in ugly losses for 5 consecutive years, followed by 3 losing seasons is a better attempt that many teams, 

But if you admit that then it is harder to claim the Bengals are the "worst" or a "laughingstock".

(04-03-2019, 02:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Some do, but the hard core whiners just talk about 27 years and act like there is no difference between the 90's and the last decade.

They don't talk about winning championships to measure great teams because the Bengals are in the majority of NFL teams that have not won a championship in the last 27 years/

And they don't talk about winning seasons, or making the playoffs, or beating good teams because the Bengals have been in the top half of the league based on those measures for the last decade.

So instead they narrow it down to just one measure i.e. "winning a playoff game".  Not winning championships.  Not having winning records.  But just winning a single playoff game.  And the only reason they use that measure is because it is the one that makes the Bengals look the worst.

It's kind of interesting that you use Super Bowl wins as your barometer for success and not playoff wins. I'll play along.


Winning a playoff game is really a common thing. We've elevated it to the mythical white whale here. But, to win a SB, you need to 1st win playoff games. Generally the teams with the most playoff wins, have won SB's. So if a Super Bowl is the goal, then playoff wins is a Key Performance Indicator...a checkpoint as to how close you are to that goal if you will.

Don't believe it?

Here's the playoff records 1991-2015. This is the Top 11 Teams in Playoff Wins over that span. (They've all won SB's! Every single one of them. And some multiple Super Bowls!)


Patriots: 25-12
Packers: 19-16
Steelers: 18-14
Ravens: 15-8
Broncos: 15-11
Cowboys: 14-10
49ers: 14-11
Colts: 14-15
Seahawks: 12-10
Eagles: 12-13
Giants: 11-7

The bottom 10 Teams in playoff wins? Only 1 Super Bowl and that was the Bucs.
Raiders: 5-5
Jaguars: 5-6
Buccaneers: 5-6
Dolphins: 5-9
Bears: 4-6
Chiefs: 4-11 (broke a 22 year streak last year)
Texans: 2-3 (both wins over Bengals)
Browns: 1-2 (streak is now at 19 seasons)
Lions: 1-8 (their streak is only 1 year shorter)
Bengals: 0-7 (the streak is now up to 26 seasons)

(04-03-2019, 03:34 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote:  But, to win a SB, you need to 1st win playoff games. Generally the teams with the most playoff wins, have won SB's. So if a Super Bowl is the goal, then playoff wins is a Key Performance Indicator...a checkpoint as to how close you are to that goal if you will.

Don't believe it?

Of course I believe it.  Why wouldn't I?  But to win a playoff game you have to have a winning season and make the playoffs.  But you never mention those numbers when talking about the Bengal over the last 16 years because they are in the top half of the league in those measures.

Right now you worship at the alter of the "playoff win" metric and ignore other like "championships" or "total wins" because they do not make the Bengals look as bad.  But as soon as the Bengals win a playoff you game you will move on to something else.  Suddenly your ultimate measurement will be "meaningless if you don't win a championship".

We have the hardcore whiners like myself who aren’t satisfied with 27 years without a playoff win. Then you have people like Fredtoast that defend every Bengals player like they are pro bowlers n finds the franchise a success because we made the playoffs 5 years in a row n if we didn’t have fluke injuries we have 5 Super Bowls. I’m a huge Bengals but I guess I’m crazy if I don’t like Hart starting at Right tackle n would like an upgrade at quarterback because I’m not content with just being 7-9 every year.

(04-03-2019, 04:04 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: We have the hardcore whiners like myself who aren’t satisfied with 27 years without a playoff win.  Then you have people like Fredtoast that defend every Bengals player like they are pro bowlers n finds the franchise a success because we made the playoffs 5 years in a row n if we didn’t have fluke injuries we have 5 Super Bowls.  I’m a huge Bengals but I guess I’m crazy if I don’t like Hart starting at Right tackle n would like an upgrade at quarterback because I’m not content with just being 7-9 every year.

And we have people who make up complete lies to build strawmen because they are helpless to argue with what I actually say. 

You can search every post I have ever made here and you will never find me saying that I am satisfied with 27 years of no championships.  But I have not built my identity around my Bengal fan victim card, so it does not bother me to point out that the Bengals have been far from the worst team in the league over the last 10-15 years.  Mike Brown is still one of the worst owners, but we have had some good players and coaches that have helped us perform better than a majority of NFL teams over that span.

(04-03-2019, 03:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Of course I believe it.  Why wouldn't I?  But to win a playoff game you have to have a winning season and make the playoffs.  But you never mention those numbers when talking about the Bengal over the last 16 years because they are in the top half of the league in those measures.

Right now you worship at the alter of the "playoff win" metric and ignore other like "championships" or "total wins" because they d we make the Bengals look as bad.  But as soon as the Bengals win a playoff you game you will move on to something else.  Suddenly your ultimate measurement will be "meaningless if you don't win a championship".

Didn't you basically call Troy Blackburn a moron? Haven't you squealed and whined about how an inept front office held Marvin back? Haven't you cried about our lack of spending in free agency? The only difference between you and Pistons is that he chooses to focus more of his posts on those things, while you prefer to argue with such points until you're ready to grace us with your negativity...as if it's somehow more relevant because it's coming from you. It's pretty tiring, frankly.

(04-03-2019, 04:30 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Didn't you basically call Troy Blackburn a moron? Haven't you squealed and whined about how an inept front office held Marvin back? Haven't you cried about our lack of spending in free agency? The only difference between you and Pistons is that he chooses to focus more of his posts on those things, while you prefer to argue with such points until you're ready to grace us with your negativity...as if it's somehow more relevant because it's coming from you. It's pretty tiring, frankly.

Yes I have said negative things.

Yes I have also said positive things.

The problem I have is with people who can make any negative claim in the world and claim that no playoff wins in 27 years proves it is true.  The fact is that not every move the Bengals ever make is proven wrong just because they have not won a playoff game in 27 years.  You have to look at each decision on its own merits.  People just hate it when I bust some of the message board myths.

(04-03-2019, 04:04 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: We have the hardcore whiners like myself who aren’t satisfied with 27 years without a playoff win.  Then you have people like Fredtoast that defend every Bengals player like they are pro bowlers n finds the franchise a success because we made the playoffs 5 years in a row n if we didn’t have fluke injuries we have 5 Super Bowls.  I’m a huge Bengals but I guess I’m crazy if I don’t like Hart starting at Right tackle n would like an upgrade at quarterback because I’m not content with just being 7-9 every year.

I swear to God I'm gonna put 27 years on my tombstone.  It's not that people don't have a right to complain.  But how many times does that same exact phrase have to be said.  Find me a single Bengal fan who doesn't know that phrase, doesn't have it practically embedded in their brain and I'll never say another word about it.  Personally, I would kill to see one single thread in JN that doesn't have that damn phrase tattooed all over it.  It's been said miles beyond the point of absurdity.

And btw, people who are not constant complainers are no less satisfied.  Difference is, they say it once and consider it said.

(04-03-2019, 05:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes I have said negative things.

Yes I have also said positive things.

The same can be said of literally everyone here outside of actual trolls. I don't think there's anyone here who thinks literally everything about the Bengals is negative "cuz 27 years". That said, a lot has to be wrong to create such a streak. 

(04-03-2019, 06:36 PM)McC Wrote: I swear to God I'm gonna put 27 years on my tombstone.  It's not that people don't have a right to complain.  But how many times does that same exact phrase have to be said.  Find me a single Bengal fan who doesn't know that phrase, doesn't have it practically embedded in their brain and I'll never say another word about it.  Personally, I would kill to see one single thread in JN that doesn't have that damn phrase tattooed all over it.  It's been said miles beyond the point of absurdity.

And btw, people who are not constant complainers are no less satisfied.  Difference is, they say it once and consider it said.

Well, stick around another year and you might not hear "27" either way.

(04-03-2019, 02:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But if you admit that then it is harder to claim the Bengals are the "worst" or a "laughingstock".

They are a laughingstock because of the archaic ways they approach things and a notorious owner.

Marvin was not a terrible coach by any means but had flaws for sure.

The combo of his coaching shortcomings and a front office that refused to give the extra push to get the team over the hump are what have put them in that position.

As much as some people are negative about the team, there are others who refuse to admit that bad ownership and decisions made are what kept them from winning at the next level.

It's just not bad luck, injuries, or whatever.  Truly bad decisions and not striking while the fire is hot with FA additions/upgrades to talent is why people get pissed and start talking about aging players and the window closing.

We'd all be delusional if we only thought the Bengals were being slammed by the media as some kind of conspiracy theory.

Somewhere in there lies truth.  It's not just some negative fans/posters here.

(04-03-2019, 07:15 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The same can be said of literally everyone here outside of actual trolls. I don't think there's anyone here who thinks literally everything about the Bengals is negative "cuz 27 years". That said, a lot has to be wrong to create such a streak. 

Agree mang.

(04-03-2019, 06:36 PM)McC Wrote: I swear to God I'm gonna put 27 years on my tombstone.  It's not that people don't have a right to complain.  But how many times does that same exact phrase have to be said.  Find me a single Bengal fan who doesn't know that phrase, doesn't have it practically embedded in their brain and I'll never say another word about it.  Personally, I would kill to see one single thread in JN that doesn't have that damn phrase tattooed all over it.  It's been said miles beyond the point of absurdity.

And btw, people who are not constant complainers are no less satisfied.  Difference is, they say it once and consider it said.

That's right. Everyone is dissatisfied with the Bengals.

Some choose to complain about it. Others chose to irrationally praise every move. Others chose to complain about the complainers.

(04-03-2019, 05:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes I have said negative things.

Yes I have also said positive things.

The problem I have is with people who can make any negative claim in the world and claim that no playoff wins in 27 years proves it is true.  The fact is that not every move the Bengals ever make is proven wrong just because they have not won a playoff game in 27 years.  You have to look at each decision on its own merits.  People just hate it when I bust some of the message board myths.

Who says the Bengals are the worst team ever and every move they make is wrong? I've freely admitted that I've felt Marvin did a good job with the team during the regular season making them respectable. Seems like you're creating that myth that there are people on this board acting like the Bengals were 90's level bad under Marvin...

They actually do make some decent moves. They made great moves finding Atkins and Green. Atkins in the 4th Round may have been one of the best draft finds ever. But, over the last 5 years they've whiffed a lot.

Is resigning Bobby Hart to be the starting RT praiseworthy? Would any teams fanbase be happy if they had $50 million cap space going into the offseason and the big free agent signings were Kerry Wynn, BW Webb, and Jonathan Miller?

I'm dissatisfied because with that much cap space, I prefer to see 2-3 CLEAR UPGRADES. Not, be sitting here hearing our best chance to compete is Taylor being a genius, or having the team totally healthy, or having all the teams in our division get worse and relying on a last place schedule.

(04-03-2019, 03:34 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's kind of interesting that you use Super Bowl wins as your barometer for success and not playoff wins. I'll play along.


Winning a playoff game is really a common thing. We've elevated it to the mythical white whale here. But, to win a SB, you need to 1st win playoff games. Generally the teams with the most playoff wins, have won SB's. So if a Super Bowl is the goal, then playoff wins is a Key Performance Indicator...a checkpoint as to how close you are to that goal if you will.

Don't believe it?

Here's the playoff records 1991-2015. This is the Top 11 Teams in Playoff Wins over that span. (They've all won SB's! Every single one of them. And some multiple Super Bowls!)


Patriots: 25-12
Packers: 19-16
Steelers: 18-14
Ravens: 15-8
Broncos: 15-11
Cowboys: 14-10
49ers: 14-11
Colts: 14-15
Seahawks: 12-10
Eagles: 12-13
Giants: 11-7

The bottom 10 Teams in playoff wins? Only 1 Super Bowl and that was the Bucs.
Raiders: 5-5
Jaguars: 5-6
Buccaneers: 5-6
Dolphins: 5-9
Bears: 4-6
Chiefs: 4-11 (broke a 22 year streak last year)
Texans: 2-3 (both wins over Bengals)
Browns: 1-2 (streak is now at 19 seasons)
Lions: 1-8 (their streak is only 1 year shorter)
Bengals: 0-7 (the streak is now up to 26 seasons)

People seem to downplay the lack of postseason success of the Bengals...so this is my rebuttal.


Anyone (FRED) care to reply to this post that there IS indeed a correlation between playoff wins and Super Bowls? The Top 11 teams in playoff wins since 1991 have ALL WON SUPER BOWLS.

Of the bottom 10 teams...ONLY 1 has.

Seems a Super Bowl isn't something that you just randomly win out of nowhere. Consistent playoff success leads to Super Bowl wins.

Any comments?