Im starting to learn toward if both Devins are gone by pick 11 then the Bengals might serious lean toward DE...
I looked up some numbers to maybe reinforce my therory.

last season the Bengals defense finished with 28 total sacks.
in the 1st 5 games when the Bengals started off 4 and 1
they had 12 sacks.
Atkins had 6 alone. Dunlap 3.

but in the next 11 games. the defense only accumalated 16 sacks.
Geno had 4..but 3 came alone vs the Raiders.
Dunlap had only 5.

Sam Hubbard got more productive as the season went on.his 1st 8 games he had 2 then finished in the last 8 games with 4.

Only 1 LB had a sack last year and that was Jordan Evans with 1.5 (all vs Tampa)

Draft bust Jordan Willis had 1.
Carl Lawson had 1 before his injury.

Shawn Williams was the only DB with 1.

vs the AFC North the Bengals had 6 sacks.all vs the Ravens.Browns Steelers shut the Bengals out.(Mayfield never hit the ground)
the Bengals were 1 5 vs the North.

yes I know RT is a huge issue. but even with Hart struggling the Bengals offense before Dalton and Green injuries was still scoring enough.
LB is a glaring issue. its neck and neck with DE IMO.
but lets face it. Dunlap isnt going to get 13 sacks this season.
Hubbard is a great rotational piece. but a one man wrecking machine.no.
Lawson is a wild card.
Willis a bust.
Geno can play at a high level for how many more years?
I think DE is high on Taylors desire list.
QB is important but the premier pass rushers are in RD 1.
Dalton can afford Taylor the luxury of getting a QB in RD 2.
or 3.

(04-10-2019, 01:16 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Im starting to learn toward if both Devins are gone by pick 11 then the Bengals might serious lean toward DE...
I looked up some numbers to maybe reinforce my therory.

last season the Bengals defense finished with 28 total sacks.
in the 1st 5 games when the Bengals started off 4 and 1
they had 12 sacks.
Atkins had 6 alone. Dunlap 3.

but in the next 11 games. the defense only accumalated 16 sacks.
Geno had 4..but 3 came alone vs the Raiders.
Dunlap had only 5.

Sam Hubbard got more productive as the season went on.his 1st 8 games he had 2 then finished in the last 8 games with 4.

Only 1 LB had a sack last year and that was Jordan Evans with 1.5 (all vs Tampa)

Draft bust Jordan Willis had 1.
Carl Lawson had 1 before his injury.

Shawn Williams was the only DB with 1.

vs the AFC North the Bengals had 6 sacks.all vs the Ravens.Browns Steelers shut the Bengals out.(Mayfield never hit the ground)
the Bengals were 1 5 vs the North.

yes I know RT is a huge issue. but even with Hart struggling the Bengals offense before Dalton and Green injuries was still scoring enough.
LB is a glaring issue. its neck and neck with DE IMO.
but lets face it. Dunlap isnt going to get 13 sacks this season.
Hubbard is a great rotational piece. but a one man wrecking machine.no.
Lawson is a wild card.
Willis a bust.
Geno can play at a high level for how many more years?
I think DE is high on Taylors desire list.
QB is important but the premier pass rushers are in RD 1.
Dalton can afford Taylor the luxury of getting a QB in RD 2.
or 3.

Agreed that they could go that way, hence why they brought in Sweat.

Willis is not a bust, just underperforming.

And why won't Dunlap get 13 sacks? Who's to say he can't get 15? The fact that he has been the most disruptive DE per snap since he came into the league, means he can get 25, just as easily as he can get 7; we don't know how it'll play out.

(04-10-2019, 01:16 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Im starting to learn toward if both Devins are gone by pick 11 then the Bengals might serious lean toward DE...
I looked up some numbers to maybe reinforce my therory.

last season the Bengals defense finished with 28 total sacks.
in the 1st 5 games when the Bengals started off 4 and 1
they had 12 sacks.
Atkins had 6 alone. Dunlap 3.

but in the next 11 games. the defense only accumalated 16 sacks.
Geno had 4..but 3 came alone vs the Raiders.
Dunlap had only 5.

Sam Hubbard got more productive as the season went on.his 1st 8 games he had 2 then finished in the last 8 games with 4.

Only 1 LB had a sack last year and that was Jordan Evans with 1.5 (all vs Tampa)

Draft bust Jordan Willis had 1.
Carl Lawson had 1 before his injury.

Shawn Williams was the only DB with 1.

vs the AFC North the Bengals had 6 sacks.all vs the Ravens.Browns Steelers shut the Bengals out.(Mayfield never hit the ground)
the Bengals were 1 5 vs the North.

yes I know RT is a huge issue. but even with Hart struggling the Bengals offense before Dalton and Green injuries was still scoring enough.
LB is a glaring issue. its neck and neck with DE IMO.
but lets face it. Dunlap isnt  going to get 13 sacks this season.
Hubbard is a great rotational piece. but a one man wrecking machine.no.
Lawson is a wild card.
Willis a bust.
Geno can play at a high level for how many more years?
I think DE is high on Taylors desire list.
QB is important but the premier pass rushers are in RD 1.
Dalton can afford Taylor the luxury of getting a QB in RD 2.
or 3.

Willis is not a bust. And you cant get creative on defense with pressures and blitzes when the opposition can dink and dunk with our LB unit in coverage. This is partly to blame, in my opinion, for the low sack numbers.  Our defense was trying to hold the fort and not attacking the QB.  

I think we are pretty solid at DE compared to other positions.  

Interesting numbers, but you gotta factor in just how atrocious the LB crew was.....if the 1st couple of reads were covered, all the QB had to do was hit the TE or RB on a dump off.  The middle of the field was a feeding frenzy.  It's hard to get to the QB when he can just dump it off, unimpeded, in a little over a second.

That said, the d line did have their struggles as well. Glasgow and Lawson going down were critical.

I would have no problem going D-line if a guy like Sweat was there or if both linebackers were off the board . Dunlap and Geno are both still playing at a high level but both are getting older. Lawson is coming of an ACL tear and is only a pass rush specialists not a 3 down DE. Hubbard had a good rookie year and has the size to be an every down DE just not sure if his production will go down for playing more vs being a fresh rotational piece. Like you mention Willis hasn’t shown much and the guy Wynn we signed sounds like a rotation guy vs a starter. I could see the Bengals drafting a DE to start opposite Dunlap or to upgrade from Billings next to Geno.

Dunlap is good many things...altering the launch point
of a QBs throw at times.
he can knock throws up in the air.
hes decent at setting the edge.
closing in on QBs and finishing. eh not so great. he gets close.
sometimes he gets his hand in there and hits the QBs arm.
but sadly vs AFC North teams..hes invisable.

(04-10-2019, 01:49 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Dunlap is good many things...altering the launch point
of a QBs throw at times.
he can knock throws up in the air.
hes decent at setting the edge.
closing in on QBs and finishing. eh not so great. he gets close.
sometimes he gets his hand in there and hits the QBs arm.
but sadly vs AFC North teams..hes invisable.

Not really' he's always eaten up the Ravens and Browns; Stoolers, not so much.

And that's what I mean; he's incredibly disruptive, but finishing is always the issue; one of the years, luck will be on his finishes and he will get something like a 17 sack year, you'll see.

The fact that he wins against the OT so often, means that his sack numbers will always have the potential to be sky-high.

(04-10-2019, 01:35 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Agreed that they could go that way, hence why they brought in Sweat.

Willis is not a bust, just underperforming.

And why won't Dunlap get 13 sacks? Who's to say he can't get 15? The fact that he has been the most disruptive DE per snap since he came into the league, means he can get 25, just as easily as he can get 7; we don't know how it'll play out.

I can't remember if it was Bucky Brooks or Charley Casserly lastnight, but they said, Sweat compares to a young Carlos Dunlap.

After getting geno and los in 2010 we went through a stretch where we used a bunch of 2nd-3rd round picks on d-line and every one flopped. But i have been very impressed with Lawson and Hubbard.

We might go DE in the first but i kind of doubt it.

(04-10-2019, 01:51 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Not really' he's always eaten up the Ravens and Browns; Stoolers, not so much.

And that's what I mean; he's incredibly disruptive, but finishing is always the issue; one of the years, luck will be on his finishes and he will get something like a 17 sack year, you'll see.

The fact that he wins against the OT so often, means that his sack numbers will always have the potential to be sky-high.

I welcome that as all Bengal fans would.
but hes a year older and his play really regressed in the 2nd half of last year.
Look I get it. hes a force. but in a,league where passing is king.I need for than 8 sacks from him. 
that was a great for Copeland or Wilson. 
different era.
we need a absolute terror off the edge. 
and in  43 scheme your DE has be very special. 

Sacks are a misleading stat because the ability to dump off the ball saves QBs. When you run out the worst linebacker coverage unit in history...seriously that’s a real stat...QBs don’t have to eat much. Better coverage out of the linebacking unit will in itself yield more sacks.

(04-10-2019, 01:57 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I welcome that as all Bengal fans would.
but hes a year older and his play really regressed in the 2nd half of last year.
Look I get it. hes a force. but in a,league where passing is king.I need for than 8 sacks from him. 
that was a great for Copeland or Wilson. 
different era.
we need a absolute terror off the edge. 
and in  43 scheme your DE has be very special. 

Dunlap also hasn't really had someone across from him. Him and Geno play on the same side which is great but then you can slide protection to that side and not have to worry about the QB's blindside. RDE is a very important position and the best one we've had is Michael Johnson who had one year with more than 6 sacks. Lawson might turn out to be stud but we have to see how he rebounds from his injury

(04-10-2019, 02:07 PM)Au165 Wrote: Sacks are a misleading stat because the ability to dump off the ball saves QBs. When you run out the worst linebacker coverage unit in history...seriously that’s a real stat...QBs don’t have to eat much. Better coverage out of the linebacking unit will in itself yield more sacks.

I understand our LBers were absoulute garbage vs the paas. 
TEs ran the daylights,out of stem routes shallow crossing routes..seam routes....
but its a 2 part equation.
if your pass rush cant get there. then how long can your LBers
stay glued on a TE?
I remember opening game vs Colts...Luck in last moments
took snap had time to scan field snd hit Doyle around the 25
but luckily they fumbled. 
but nobody got a hand on Luck.
I know yeah yeah if the backer was on the hip of Doyle then maybe Luck has to go to another read...

We missed Lawson last season desperately; If he is healthy Dline is the best in the league. I would not be surprised if we drafted a Lawson backup in The first 4 Rounds of the draft. Also 3T should be considered early too.

I'd take Ed Oliver if he's there at 11.

Will people stop labeling a player a bust after just two years? Most players don't come into their own until Year 3 or Year 4.
Besides, it's not like Willis is the guaranteed starter. He's a backup DE.

My expectation of the DE depth chart (or at least how I would do it):
LDE - Dunlap, Willis, Wynn
RDE - Lawson, Hubbard (Hubbard is first DE off the bench)

If the Bengals draft another edge, I think Wynn is the more likely player to be cut over Willis. Wynn has never had more than 1.5 sacks in a season but he's been in the league five years. He has less chance to develop into a better player than Willis. Plus, Wynn actually costs less in dead cap if released but more toward the cap if kept over Willis.

(04-10-2019, 02:41 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Will people stop labeling a player a bust after just two years? Most players don't come into their own until Year 3 or Year 4.
Besides, it's not like Willis is the guaranteed starter. He's a backup DE.

My expectation of the DE depth chart (or at least how I would do it):
LDE - Dunlap, Willis, Wynn
RDE - Lawson, Hubbard (Hubbard is first DE off the bench)

If the Bengals draft another edge, I think Wynn is the more likely player to be cut over Willis. Wynn has never had more than 1.5 sacks in a season but he's been in the league five years. He has less chance to develop into a better player than Willis. Plus, Wynn actually costs less in dead cap if released but more toward the cap if kept over Willis.

hes a straight up bust. 
in fact he's soft as a cupcake.
this is NFL.
DE is a premium position that can impact the game.
the difference between a win or loss might come down to a,DE getting heat on a QB on the last possesion.
then maybe the DE can force the QB to bring the ball.down to reset.
or maybe he flushes the QB out of pocket into the arms of a Atkins or Dunlap.
Willis has shown me nothing in 2 years.
wanna a,player to develop...great leave that to a 6th 7th RD blocking TE or RB.
Willis never shows up unless its preseason vs Dallas vs a future ice cream truck driver.

(04-10-2019, 03:01 PM)impactplaya Wrote: hes a straight up bust. 
in fact he's soft as a cupcake.
this is NFL.
DE is a premium position that can impact the game.
the difference between a win or loss might come down to a,DE getting heat on a QB on the last possesion.
then maybe the DE can force the QB to bring the ball.down to reset.
or maybe he flushes the QB out of pocket into the arms of a Atkins or Dunlap.
Willis has shown me nothing in 2 years.
wanna a,player to develop...great leave that to a 6th 7th RD blocking TE or RB.
Willis never shows up unless its preseason vs Dallas vs a future ice cream truck driver.

So let me get this straight...only a 6th or 7th round RB or blocking TE is worth giving time to develop, not any player drafted in the first 5 rounds or any round at another position?

Also, what counts as "soft as a cupcake"? Just because he hasn't produced a lot of sacks? He more than doubled his QB hits from 2017 to 2018. He was a 3rd round pick for a reason...he had some things he needed to develop. Specifically, he needed to develop more (or better) pass rush moves than just swim move.

(04-10-2019, 02:41 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Will people stop labeling a player a bust after just two years? Most players don't come into their own until Year 3 or Year 4.
Besides, it's not like Willis is the guaranteed starter. He's a backup DE.

My expectation of the DE depth chart (or at least how I would do it):
LDE - Dunlap, Willis, Wynn
RDE - Lawson, Hubbard (Hubbard is first DE off the bench)

If the Bengals draft another edge, I think Wynn is the more likely player to be cut over Willis. Wynn has never had more than 1.5 sacks in a season but he's been in the league five years. He has less chance to develop into a better player than Willis. Plus, Wynn actually costs less in dead cap if released but more toward the cap if kept over Willis.

I don't think Lawson can hold the edge for run downs. so i'd have someone in front of him starting.

(04-10-2019, 03:30 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: I don't think Lawson can hold the edge for run downs. so i'd have someone in front of him starting.

Valid.  So swap Hubbard and Lawson.