(04-21-2019, 01:38 PM)OSUfan Wrote: LMAO...……..your assessment is not accurate at all.

Taylor, Dillard, and Ford would all be worthy of the #11 selection. What there is not is a LB worthy of the 11th selection.

Eh, I'll agree to disagree there. 

Dl and lb are good in this draft. We can use either one, and there should be good candidates there. I don't think any of the tackles being projected to go first round will be ready starters. Neither will any in the second. Might as well upgrade at a position of need when the opportunity is there and develop whoever we take in 2-4 to block.

(04-21-2019, 01:16 AM)XsandOs Wrote: Our starting LDE had an ACL. How and when he comes back from it, no one knows.

Dunlap is on the right.

Willis?

Hubbard did well with his snaps, but not sure if he is a 3 down end.

I am uncertain as to your comment related to the length of the draft or LB. However; specific to eligible draftees, value is a cliche' term that means nothing in particular or in general. What the term does concede is that the player who is projected to be taken first, is better.

This isnt the 1940s there are a ton of players that have torn acls.  I expect to see him just as explosive as before, he is an elite athelete.  By the time we get to training camp he will have had 9 months which is more than enough time.  You said we need lbs and de yesterday like if we dont take one in first we are done.  The draft is 7 rounds long and there is quality starters all over the draft.  As stated earlier we can adress this in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.  Its not complicated, not sure how that was confusing to you.

(04-21-2019, 11:53 AM)OSUfan Wrote: Need should never be a justification for a reach.

I don't agree with that. Need should always be considered when making a selection. If the best player at 11 were a RB, I wouldn't take them. At the same time, need cannot be the only determining factor.

A good selection is the perfect intersection of need and value.

(04-21-2019, 07:41 PM)mikey6866 Wrote: This isnt the 1940s there are a ton of players that have torn acls.  I expect to see him just as explosive as before, he is an elite athelete.  By the time we get to training camp he will have had 9 months which is more than enough time.  You said we need lbs and de yesterday like if we dont take one in first we are done.  The draft is 7 rounds long and there is quality starters all over the draft.  As stated earlier we can adress this in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.  Its not complicated, not sure how that was confusing to you.

For a LDE, and ACL tear in the right knee is a problem. It is the push/power leg. Every time you take an extended step, it feels like your lower leg is sliding back and your upper leg is sliding over your lower leg.

He will need time. He is an elite athlete, but he is human.

I am fully aware of how long the draft is.

I am not confused, nor did I state so. Seems that you extrapolate to a non-existent point.

Nonetheless, I feel that using the "value" argument or stating that "there is quality starters all over the place", brings us to the end of our discussion.

We disagree. And that's fine.

(04-21-2019, 09:01 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I don't agree with that. Need should always be considered when making a selection. If the best player at 11 were a RB, I wouldn't take them. At the same time, need cannot be the only determining factor.

A good selection is the perfect intersection of need and value.

Exactly.

I think most organizations work out some kind of value/need intersect. Just because youre set at wr doesnt mean you pass on a top wr if one falls, but you consider it less if you have a need for a few other positions.

(04-21-2019, 04:02 PM)Benton Wrote: Eh, I'll agree to disagree there. 

Dl and lb are good in this draft. We can use either one, and there should be good candidates there. I don't think any of the tackles being projected to go first round will be ready starters. Neither will any in the second. Might as well upgrade at a position of need when the opportunity is there and develop whoever we take in 2-4 to block.

So you are good with LBs that are poor tacklers and that have not actually been tested in coverage duties? LMAO.

Jawaan Taylor is a day 1 starter and will be a top tier RT for the next 10 years. He is a Willie Anderson with better athleticism. Frankly, there are even second and third round OTs that are going to be day 1 starters. To say otherwise is either just foolish or simply making a statement to try and back your point.

(04-21-2019, 09:01 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I don't agree with that. Need should always be considered when making a selection. If the best player at 11 were a RB, I wouldn't take them. At the same time, need cannot be the only determining factor.

A good selection is the perfect intersection of need and value.

Can you point out where I stated need is not a consideration in making a selection? Let me go ahead and answer....no you cannot because I did not state that.

What was stated...…..need is not a justification for a REACH....completely different point. Which I would be more than happy to discuss if you care to stick to the actual point made and not a fabrication of a statement.

(04-22-2019, 07:44 AM)OSUfan Wrote: Can you point out where I stated need is not a consideration in making a selection? Let me go ahead and answer....no you cannot because I did not state that.

What was stated...…..need is not a justification for a REACH....completely different point. Which I would be more than happy to discuss if you care to stick to the actual point made and not a fabrication of a statement.

I don't think you'd be more than happy to discuss anything. You'd prefer to skip the discussion and go straight to the part where everyone apologizes for daring to defy you.

I'm good.

- Rashan Gary
- DK Metcalf
- Any QB

IMO the first two on my list are much more projects that are too risky. Bengals need someone who has a high floor because they've swung and missed too many times recently to afford another whiff.
If the Bengals go QB in the first round, the only two I'd care to see are Murray and Haskins. However, I don't have ultra-high confidence that Haskins is a future Top 10 QB, and I think he needs 1-2 years of grooming before he should start. I want someone who can contribute immediately and be at least solid at worst.

(04-22-2019, 07:40 AM)OSUfan Wrote: So you are good with LBs that are poor tacklers and that have not actually been tested in coverage duties? LMAO.

Jawaan Taylor is a day 1 starter and will be a top tier RT for the next 10 years. He is a Willie Anderson with better athleticism. Frankly, there are even second and third round OTs that are going to be day 1 starters. To say otherwise is either just foolish or simply making a statement to try and back your point.

To be fair, Bobby Hart is a starter, so just because someone starts doesn't make them good.

Here are the OTs I think have a good shot at success in the NFL:
Jonah Williams
Jawaan Taylor
Cody Ford
Dalton Risner
Andre Dillard (at least from pass protection standpoint)

All of the above could go in Rd 1. Maybe one falls to Rd 2.

I think all the others are gambles and will require proper coaching to get them to quality starter level.

(04-22-2019, 10:19 AM)ochocincos Wrote: To be fair, Bobby Hart is a starter, so just because someone starts doesn't make them good.

Here are the OTs I think have a good shot at success in the NFL:
Jonah Williams
Jawaan Taylor
Cody Ford
Dalton Risner
Andre Dillard (at least from pass protection standpoint)

All of the above could go in Rd 1. Maybe one falls to Rd 2.

I think all the others are gambles and will require proper coaching to get them to quality starter level.

I would add left tackle prospect Greg Little from Ole Miss to your list.

At 6 foot 6 and 325 pounds he has ideal size for an NFL tackle.

I am hearing late first round for Little somewhere in the 20's range of picks.

(04-22-2019, 07:40 AM)OSUfan Wrote: So you are good with LBs that are poor tacklers and that have not actually been tested in coverage duties? LMAO.

Jawaan Taylor is a day 1 starter and will be a top tier RT for the next 10 years. He is a Willie Anderson with better athleticism. Frankly, there are even second and third round OTs that are going to be day 1 starters. To say otherwise is either just foolish or simply making a statement to try and back your point.

Jawaan has good hands, he's strong and from what I've seen he's smart, but if he played anymore vertical, he'd be starting for the Boston Celtics. 

Jawaan has the physical tools to be a starting tackle in a couple seasons, but he's used to using his strength to push around college players. It's going to take a season to get him to play with his pads lower and not lose his ability to track defensive players.

I'm hoping the rumors are true and the Jags reach for him. I'd like to have him at the end of the first, but not a high pick.

That's why I like Ford more. Less experience if I remember right, but Ford plays lower when he's plowing. I think some teams are looking him more as a guard because of his problem squaring up, but who knows.

Anyway, yeah, I'd rather have a linebacker or defensive lineman as we need both of those and there's some good prospects likely to still be on the board. That's what makes the draft fun. You ask a dozen guys about a position and you'll get a dozen different answers. Mine is that LB/DL looks good at 11.

I definitely hope we do not take a qb at 11 because there are bigger holes on this team. I would love to see Devin White fall to us but it is unlikely that he makes it out of the top 5. However if Devin Bush is there at 11 over a qb that has fallen I hope he is drafted because we need a linebacker with speed and instincts and even though he is undersized he has both. My next choice to actually be drafted would be either an offensive lineman or Ed Oliver who I think is going to have a great career. As far as 3 names I do not want to hear at 11 it would definitely be any qb, cb, or a wr.

It’s intriguing looking at everyone’s feedback. It seems as fans who want the best for our team, we’re passionately divided on what’s best.

Metcalf, Marquise Brown, Devin Bush.
...Gary would be no. 4. 

The aforementioned dudes have great measureables in some respects, but are at least a tad overrated for it imho. "Look like Tarzan..." type of hype. 

(04-22-2019, 09:57 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I don't think you'd be more than happy to discuss anything. You'd prefer to skip the discussion and go straight to the part where everyone apologizes for daring to defy you.

I'm good.

No just do not appreciate fabrications of what I have supposedly stated. I did not state that need does not play into a draft decision. Yet that is what you made my statement out to be. Is that not accurate?

(04-22-2019, 08:24 PM)OSUfan Wrote: No just do not appreciate fabrications of what I have supposedly stated. I did not state that need does not play into a draft decision. Yet that is what you made my statement out to be. Is that not accurate?

No it's not. You made the assertion that need should never justify a "reach" and I clarified that need is a consideration when determining who is the proper pick.

Like I said, if the 11th best prospect in the draft (I.E. the best prospect available at 11, in theory) were a RB, then I would not pick them. Because it's not a need.

By that logic, I'd be going for the 12th or 13th best prospect that does fit a need. And taking the 12th or 13th best player at the 11th spot in the draft is a "reach."

So need is, indeed, a justification for a "reach."

That was the basis of my argument in response to what you said.

You were the one that did not accurately attribute my argument.

(04-22-2019, 06:57 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: It’s intriguing looking at everyone’s feedback. It seems as fans who want the best for our team, we’re passionately divided on what’s best.

I know right? Pick any player in the draft and you can find someone who loves them, and someone who hates them.

(04-22-2019, 09:07 PM)NKURyan Wrote: I know right? Pick any player in the draft and you can find someone who loves them, and someone who hates them.

That’s why we are not in ZTs circle of trust I guess?

Haskins
Haskins
Haskins. Lol