I heard Coach Lewis say he would not have let Whitworth leave.  I heard Coach Lewis say there were other players he wanted more than Ross.  This reminds me of David Shula getting fired saying that Mike Brown doesn't give a Head Coach the opportunity to be a true Head Coach.

So here we are hours before first Draft Day with Coach Taylor.  I tell everybody now that Coach Taylor doesn't have a chance if it is still the Brown Family and this Tobin as a semi-GM calling all the shots as always.  The Bengals and their no play-off wins since Paul Brown died don't have a chance if it is still The Brown Family and their semi GM as always.  You can not have the Brown Family making all the player moves and say to head coaches, " here are the players, no go win with them ".  That doesn't work because often the Brown Family has dealt the head coaches a bad hand, players that no coach could win with.

The only way Bengals can ever become good is for the Head Coach to have Power.  You give the Head Coach a few years to develop HIS team. If it fails, you fire the head coach.  The hope is that it works and the Head Coach brings in players that fit his scheme.  You think that coach in New England has a role in player moves, you bet he does. The Brown Family has to take a giant step back and let Head Coaches have the final say on what team is put on the field. The owners rake in the money and control everything else, but the team on the field must be the Head Coach's job.  I'm for then letting Taylor be a true head coach because what Bengals have done since 1991 hasn't worked at all, not at all.

So as a long time fan, I'm all in on Taylor and these coaches having draft and player move control. I've seen what Brown Family has done since 1991 and it is awful. If the Brown Family again makes the draft picks and player moves and says again to the head coach, " Go win with these guys ", it will fail again, as always.

While I agree with most of what you are stating here the scouts have to come into account. I do not feel we have done bad at drafting the last 10 years or so which I attribute to Katie more than MB. If the head coach likes a certain OT that will fit his offense they absolutely have to take that into account. Same with any position really. Just chucking that out as an example. Keeping players in FA is hard for a coach to do though. I did not want to let Whit go either but that is on MB and trying to save some loot. It is hard to keep everyone though and we have made some smart moves in not overpaying for Zeitler or Michael Johnson etc.

I am all in on Taylor as well and think we would be stupid not to take his advice on who he wants seriously. But I do think there can be some collaboration that just fits. At least a 50/50 with the coach getting the nod would work for me.

A coaches job is to coach the players the GM/Front Office give him. Nothing more. Lewis had plenty of talent, he just had a ceiling as a coach.

(04-23-2019, 08:05 AM)Sled21 Wrote: A coaches job is to coach the players the GM/Front Office give him. Nothing more. Lewis had plenty of talent, he just had a ceiling as a coach.

It's a combination of the coaches and GM/FO. Clearly Duke/Katie have the most say in it, but best believe that ZT has a say on the matter. That would be terrible management to simply get a player that the HC doesn't necessarily want or can utilize. See Ross, John. I believe that ZT gives them a list of players he likes and they try to join that with their list, with lots and lots of discussion around it. 

Mike Brown's philosophy is this...
"Convince me of a certain player. If you do a good enough job, I'm with you. If not or there's a discrepancy, I'll be the ultimate decider."

Coach Taylor has been saying all along, "communication and input from everyone" since the day he arrived. I don't think they will deviate from that plan during the draft.

One thing you absolutely cannot say of the Bengals FO is that they have no experience at screwing the pooch. They're expert pooch screwers.. I'm fairly convinced the fine people of Cincinnati know what a Browndoodle looks like at this point..

(04-23-2019, 10:56 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Mike Brown's philosophy is this...
"Convince me of a certain player. If you do a good enough job, I'm with you. If not or there's a discrepancy, I'll be the ultimate decider."

Zac said in an interview that he "doesn't care who makes the decision as long as the decision leads to getting good players".


IMO - They just simply need to hit on solid players and avoid the Cedric/Fisher/Ross(so far) type of early round picks. Then when they do miss, be quicker to recognize it & fix it.

(04-23-2019, 12:00 PM)depthchart Wrote: Zac said in an interview that he "doesn't care who makes the decision as long as the decision leads to getting good players".


IMO - They just simply need to hit on solid players and avoid the Cedric/Fisher/Ross(so far) type of early round picks. Then when they do miss, be quicker to recognize it & fix it.

You mean to not wait until those bust draft picks contracts expire? There's something to be said about honoring contracts. In the Bengals case it typically means being stuck with busts for 3-4 years.. or more.

The whole team has to be on the same page. Management has to believe in the coach and the system the coach employs. The coach has to identify the type of players he needs to succeed in his system. The GM has to provide those types of players to the coach via draft and FA. And there is a constant circle of communication on players - be it development or issues or limits or depth or whatever. Like ANY business, to be successful there has to be cohesion and a well developed plan that everyone is on board with.

(04-23-2019, 12:11 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: The whole team has to be on the same page. Management has to believe in the coach and the system the coach employs. The coach has to identify the type of players he needs to succeed in his system. The GM has to provide those types of players to the coach via draft and FA. And there is a constant circle of communication on players - be it development or issues or limits or depth or whatever. Like ANY business, to be successful there has to be cohesion and a well developed plan that everyone is on board with.

The Bengals have no GM. You keep saying Bengals GM. There is no Bengals GM.  There has never been a Bengals GM.  The Brown Family has never created a GM Title in Franchise history.  So there is a lack of leadership on the field because all the power is in The Brown Family in their luxury suit at games.  Do not tell me this is how all teams do it, because I will show you coaches like the New England coach who ownership have given Power to.  The Brown Family is why many good coaches refuse the Bengals coaching jobs when they come open. Also why Bengals hang on to coaches forever to avoid put in position of having shame of openings that good coaches refuse by the dozens in national media.

One person said Bengals have had good drafts the last 10 years. After I did the old Danny Thomas of spitting out my coffee across the room and stopped laughing. There is no way the Bengals drafts can be considered good. They didn't even keep Zeitler, so that was a good pick for Cleveland. We must be setting a record for drafting 1st round injured players that can't play their rookie season. OG, WJ3, Ross,Dennard, Kirkpatrick. I have to add Price injury. Some of these they drafted knowing they would be injured all rookie season. I like the AJ Green and then Dalton draft in 2011. Some drafts after that have been real clunkers.

If the front office is so horrible at drafting, how did we get Green, Dalton, Atkins, Dunlap, Whitworth, Bernard, Jones, Sanu, Boyd, Zeitler, Boling, and the rest of the top talent on this team? Sure, they miss on some, EVERY team misses on some. That's why the draft is a crap shoot. How many teams passed on Atkins, over and over, because he wasn't tall enough? How many teams passed on Dunlap because he didn't have a high motor? Sanu lasted so long, other players were pranking him on the phone....

Considering Coaches Lewis and Shula commented on drafts and player moves they had no control of
Considering no play-off wins since Mike Brown took charge in 1991
The best change Bengals could make would be letting Coach Taylor pick the players he wants this week.
If the Bengals have no confidence in Taylor, they should not have hired him.
This is more about Brown Family clinging to Power than confidence in coaches.
The Brown Family power control shackles head coaches and creates NFL longest no play-off win streak.
I hope they let Coach Taylor run The Draft, but Brown Family probably won't let it happen.

(04-23-2019, 12:58 PM)kevin Wrote: One person said Bengals have had good drafts the last 10 years.  After I did the old Danny Thomas of spitting out my coffee across the room and stopped laughing.  There is no way the Bengals drafts can be considered good.  They didn't even keep Zeitler, so that was a good pick for Cleveland. 

The mental gymnastics some people go through to shit on the Bengals is amazing.

We draft one of the top OGs in the league but that does not count because he did not retire a Bengal?

This is getting silly.

(04-23-2019, 12:58 PM)kevin Wrote: Also why Bengals hang on to coaches forever to avoid put in position of having shame of openings that good coaches refuse by the dozens in national media.

Actually this is not true at all. We replaced a lot of coaches when Marvin was here and had no problem with dozens of coaches turning us down.  In fact most of the coaches that left were getting promotions and coaches were eager to come here.  Even when we let coaches go for poor performance we had not problem finding quality guys eager to coach here.

Kevin,

You appear to be a cynic and well, I guess most of us are as well. The coach, on his own, should NOT be making the draft picks on his own (unless his name is Bill Belichick). The Bengals have , over the last 10 years, drafted fairly well. What they have not done well is coached up the young players and put forth a more 'modern' system of offense and defense. Hopefully ZT brings both of these to the team.

The other main failure of the team is not supplementing the roster via free agency or trades where there are gaps in depth or in the case of the OL and LB huge holes to fill. But this has nothing to do with the draft. Right now it is all about the draft and the OL and LB spots are huge needs, I am sure the team knows this but one never knows with Mikey.

The creation of a draft board has to be by informed consensus and at the end of the day, the accountability for the picks ride with one person. Others may pick or suggest a pick but someone is accountable. Not sure today if that is Mikey or Tobin.

Interesting article on draft information:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/23/nfl-draft-information-trade-media-adam-schefter-ian-rapoport-rick-gosselin


Makes me think the Bengals dont have the resources to do this much work - another disadvantage.

BENGALS FANS - Bobby Hart is trash!
NEW BENGALS COACHES - Bobby Hart is phenomenal!
BENGALS FANS - Please let the new coaches pick the players!!!!

(04-23-2019, 03:20 PM)Nately120 Wrote: BENGALS FANS - Bobby Hart is trash!
NEW BENGALS COACHES - Bobby Hart is phenomenal!
BENGALS FANS - Please let the new coaches pick the players!!!!

Rep!