(04-28-2019, 06:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Getting some solid play from Malik Jefferson would be huge.

You guys know I am a "Never judge a player after just one season" type of guy, but the concern with Malik are the guys who kept him on the bench.  Jefferson only played 11 snaps on defense.  Our LBs were horrid and he still could not get any playing time.

(04-28-2019, 06:25 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Did the other players keep him on the bench or did the coaching staff keep him on the bench? I know it has been argued by many that Lewis did not like to put rookies on the field. Also, was it a lack of coaching that kept him from taking a starting spot or at least getting more snaps?

From what I understand Malik Jefferson still struggled with the mental aspects but under Darrin Simmons on special teams. I'd say him struggling on special teams was a factor in not seeing time at Linebacker.

(04-28-2019, 06:16 PM)OSUfan Wrote: So you are saying you had complete confidence in his coaching staff and you feel like the issue was completely him?

If you have listened to interviews with Lou Anarumo you will have heard that he wants to simplify the playbook and allow guys to go out there and play fast without being in constant thought about what is going on. One of the reasons the Patriots are as good as they are is because the play rather simple schemes on both sides of the ball but they execute them almost to perfection. I think this concept is what we are going to see on defense with Lou.

I think more of the issue with these young backers was a lack of quality coaching because the deficiencies were pretty much across the boards not with individuals.

Maybe recently, but Chad Johnson could barely get on the field for them due to not being able to learn their playbook.

(04-28-2019, 06:25 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Did the other players keep him on the bench or did the coaching staff keep him on the bench? I know it has been argued by many that Lewis did not like to put rookies on the field. Also, was it a lack of coaching that kept him from taking a starting spot or at least getting more snaps?

The "Marvin doesn't play rookies" line is total BS.  Bates and Price were starters and Hubbard played over 500 snaps.  Even 5th round CB Darius Phillips played 232 snaps on defense.

(04-28-2019, 06:29 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Maybe recently, but Chad Johnson could barely get on the field for them due to not being able to learn their playbook.

Not sure one player is data.

(04-28-2019, 06:29 PM)Synric Wrote: From what I understand Malik Jefferson still struggled with the mental aspects but under Darrin Simmons on special teams. I'd say him struggling on special teams was a factor in not seeing time at Linebacker.

If Marvin was keeping Jefferson on the shelf for not understanding his STs instructions, then I completely agree with his lack of participation on defense.  The more little details I learn about Jefferson, like the STs stuff you just disclosed, the more I really question if Jefferson will ever see significant action.  At Texas, they basically used him like a pistol, just point and shoot.  In the NFL, it's not quite that simple, much cerebral understanding to be done before and during every play when you're a LB.

(04-28-2019, 06:50 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Not sure one player is data.

When it’s a player as good as Chad it might be.

(04-28-2019, 06:29 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Maybe recently, but Chad Johnson could barely get on the field for them due to not being able to learn their playbook.

In fairness to Chad, that was the lockout year, so he didn't have much time.

But yes, at least back then, the Pats playbook was said to be very complex.

Welker said as much when Chad struggled.

I have to agree with you Piston. Backers still worry me but at least they focused on offense and protecting Dalton. I think they plan on ball control to keep offenses of opposing teams off the field. But I also think next year they will need to draft maybe 2 high level backers.

The fix this year? Grab a throw away gem when cut down occurs. There may be a vet out there that can play. I don't know.

We need linebacker help bad . Can't keep making excuses for brown n vigil sucking every year Evans n Nickerson are even worse belong flipping hamburgers

(04-28-2019, 07:33 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I have to agree with you Piston.  Backers still worry me but at least they focused on offense and protecting Dalton.  I think they plan on ball control to keep offenses of opposing teams off the field.  But I also think next year they will need to draft maybe 2 high level backers.

The fix this year?  Grab a throw away gem when cut down occurs.  There may be a vet out there that can play.   I don't know.

And that is why I criticize the team in free agency. We had some $50+ million cap space, and only came away with 1 marginal starting upgrade in Miller.

It seems like they valued depth over quality starters. They left too many needs to fill in the draft.

IF Pratt isn't capable of starting, we still need a 3rd starter. Then IF there is an injury, we need a 4th LB.

I think an LJ Fort would have been a good acquisition and he was relatively cheap for a starting LB.

(04-28-2019, 07:43 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: And that is why I criticize the team in free agency. We had some $50+ million cap space, and only came away with 1 marginal starting upgrade in Miller.

It seems like they valued depth over quality starters. They left too many needs to fill in the draft.

IF Pratt isn't capable of starting, we still need a 3rd starter. Then IF there is an injury, we need a 4th LB.

I think an LJ Fort would have been a good acquisition and he was relatively cheap for a starting LB.

Don't forget about Malik Jefferson.  And from what I am hearing, Pratt may be a good one.  

(04-28-2019, 07:33 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: We need linebacker help bad   .  Can't keep making excuses for brown n vigil sucking every year    Evans n Nickerson are even worse belong flipping hamburgers

Vigil was one of the better linebackers in the NFL until he was injured in a primarily Cover 2 Zone system that dared teams to attack the linebackers...

(04-28-2019, 07:49 PM)Synric Wrote: Vigil was one of the better linebackers in the NFL until he was injured in a primarily Cover 2 Zone system  that dared teams to attack the linebackers...

Vigil developed quite nicely from Year 1 to Year 2. It's kind of hard to put the poor play of Jefferson all on Haslett for instance because a guy like Vigil developed in a pretty marked way under Haslett.

As with most things, I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Some of our coaches may have been average, but also we may not have drafted the right players...then not signing free agents in areas of need hurts too.

(04-28-2019, 05:16 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Vinny is Vincent Rey.

He's not on the team any more...

(04-28-2019, 05:42 PM)OSUfan Wrote: You say you follow this team and you did not know who Vinny was?

I know who Vinny Rey is. 

If you followed the team, you'd know he isn't on it.

(04-28-2019, 08:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Vigil developed quite nicely from Year 1 to Year 2. It's kind of hard to put the poor play of Jefferson all on Haslett for instance because a guy like Vigil developed in a pretty marked way under Haslett.

As with most things, I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Some of our coaches may have been average, but also we may not have drafted the right players...then not signing free agents in areas of need hurts too.

Not sure how you say he improved markedly under Haslett as Haslett was the only LB coach he had in the NFL. He did not see much real playing time as a rookie and both his other seasons were pretty much identical. So can we really state the he improved markedly? Improved markedly in comparison to...…

7 total tackle difference from year 1 to year 2, 1 more tackle for a loss, and 1 sack less.  

(04-28-2019, 08:19 PM)Mobster Wrote: I know who Vinny Rey is. 

If you followed the team, you'd know he isn't on it.

He actually still shows as a Bengal because he has not been signed anywhere else. If you look on their roster you will still see him on it and any reference you go to will still show him as a Bengals player.

(04-28-2019, 08:20 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Not sure how you say he improved markedly under Haslett as Haslett was the only LB coach he had in the NFL. He did not see much real playing time as a rookie and both his other seasons were pretty much identical. So can we really state the he improved markedly? Improved markedly in comparison to...…

7 total tackle difference from year 1 to year 2, 1 more tackle for a loss, and 1 sack less.  

He played in Year 1. He had 79 total tackles.

He missed a bunch of games year 2.

He went from being a Bad LB as a rookie to average to above average Year 2. That's some improvement.

That said, he's a #3 LB. IF he's our best guy, we're in trouble. And IF Preston Brown gets injured, that's the case.

We need to add a LB that's better than Brown and Vigil. That's the challenge.

(04-28-2019, 08:23 PM)OSUfan Wrote: He actually still shows as a Bengal because he has not been signed anywhere else. If you look on their roster you will still see him on it and any reference you go to will still show him as a Bengals player.

He's not a Bengal. Just like Andre Smith  and Michael Johnson are not Bengals. They're not on the roster. Theyre listed as unrestricted free agents.

(04-28-2019, 05:42 PM)OSUfan Wrote: You say you follow this team and you did not know who Vinny was?

It could be voluntary amnesia. I know I try to forget his play in Cincinnati. Scorched into my retinas. I always said that he ran like both legs were removed and then placed back on the wrong sides.