(05-02-2019, 09:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Exactly.

Now go back to the original post I was responding to and you will see why I said what I did.

I still think any other owner would have fired him years ago, so he kind of has a point. He certainly won’t get another head coaching job again.

(05-03-2019, 08:46 AM)AlphaBengal Wrote: I still think any other owner would have fired him years ago, so he kind of has a point.

He only has a point if you think a large majority of NFL coaches are delusional.

I agreed that Marvin had to go after 2017.  I just don't believe he was "delusional" or one of the worst coaches ever.

(05-02-2019, 02:36 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Marvin was delusional and not meant to be a head coach. End of story.

Bengals have not lost any key players and they should be heakthier in 2019.  So I guess you are projecting a lot more wins this year, right?

Or do you think nTaylor is also "delusional"?

(05-03-2019, 12:50 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Sure, he's better than the majority of coaches who are hired and fired through the years, but he's one of the worst to ever coach 16+ seasons in the NFL. 

Among that exclusive group of 26, Lewis ranks 24th in win % and he's the only one with 0 playoff wins. 17 of those coaches won Super Bowls. 

The only coaches with a worse win % are Lou Saban, who won 2 championships, and Jeff Fisher, who made a Super Bowl.

Lewis is officially the worst coach to ever coach that many seasons in the NFL.

But, but, but he’s better than the majority [emoji849]


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I think Marvin's biggest problem was his inflexibility. It showed up in primetime and the playoffs. There's something to be said about not psyching yourself out overthinking big games, but you do have to prepare a little differently for them. How many times did we hear opposing players say that they knew exactly what the Bengals were going to do? Or that they didn't change the gameplan at all from when they played them a couple of weeks earlier (See Chargers and Jets playoff games).

Marvin approached every single game the same. That works at 1pm on Sunday, but it doesn't work in primetime and playoffs.

(05-03-2019, 09:52 AM)BenZoo2 Wrote: But, but, but he’s better than the majority [emoji849]

See guys, even BenZoo2 agrees with me.

A LONG career with a winning record while being handicapped by the worst owner in the league proves he is better than the majority.

At the latest, Marv should have been fired after the meltdown.
He was a good, not great, head coach. He has good and bad points about him as a coach and a man.
Here's hoping ZT turns out to be a great young coach. He seems to have a plan, and is being given some reign to implement it. Anxious to see it in action this Fall.

(05-02-2019, 01:38 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That is interesting, to say Marv didn't want our Offense to show up the Defense is strange.

You would think he would want this to happen so they could learn from it.

He was probably trying to protect some egos and keep things calm. 

(05-02-2019, 10:26 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: That's my point as well. People act like Marvin was a terrible coach and we hired a young, Sean McVey...

It's really hard to tell IF anyone can win under Mike Brown. But, it's equally hard to tell what we have in any of these coaches as they have little track record in the positions they are in.

Taylor has even very little playcalling experience let alone HC experience.

And our team is being ran by 2 guys who were QB Coaches last year and a DB Coach.

It could blow up spectacularly, or it could succeed.

Seems folks forget our last HC to go to a Super Bowl was a QB coach, then a HC with a 3-8 record for one year at a school that was outclassed in its conference.  He also hired a bunch of "nobodies" on his first staff.  What we got was innovation that changed the game forever.  You couple that with what players are saying, and what the staff, particularly ZT, have said in press conferences instead of "we did some good things", and it's pretty easy to see why there is some optimism.

Change is here.....FINALLY....why not embrace it?

(05-03-2019, 01:37 AM)Circleville Guy Wrote: For me, it kinda like last year. Everyone was saying how every little move or word that the new Oline coach made was praised endlessly and then when it came time for results, it wasn’t backed up. I don’t like to praise too much until something translates on the field. I am curious though if anyone noticed Marvin going extra easy on the D in game or during HardKnocks??? Was this just AJ’s perception or really how Marvin coached? Maybe that answer was in the final results.

For once, I disagree with you. We had one of the league's worst run games under Paul Alexander. For over 10 years, we ranked 20th or worse in yards/carry. In 2017, we ranked 29th with a paltry 3.6 ypc. Under Pollack, we averaged 4.7 ypc - which was our best ranking since 2000. Almost 20 years. 

We went from talking like Joe Mixon was a bust to thinking he's a top 5 back. The pass blocking was still bad, but did show some improvement. In 2017, Dalton was sacked every 12.7 attempts. In 2018, he was sacked every 17.4 attempts. That's actually a pretty substantial improvement.

 I was pretty disappointed to see Pollack go. I think we lost a good one there. 

Just getting our horde of injured players back will make a large difference. And Shake is correct that even though the line was still substandard it did improve with Pollack - I think he got it about as far as it could get with that set of players and also the injury issues the line had (and it did - Price lost a lot of time; Boling and Glenn both played hurt most of the season). Thats said, it still was interesting that ZT and Callahan worked hands on with the offense and came away convinced that fixing the blocking was Priority A1.

(05-03-2019, 01:02 PM)Joelist Wrote: Just getting our horde of injured players back will make a large difference. And Shake is correct that even though the line was still substandard it did improve with Pollack - I think he got it about as far as it could get with that set of players and also the injury issues the line had (and it did - Price lost a lot of time; Boling and Glenn both played hurt most of the season). Thats said, it still was interesting that ZT and Callahan worked hands on with the offense and came away convinced that fixing the blocking was Priority A1.

I don't think there's any surprise honestly. The OL was good in the run game, yes, but it was atrocious in pass blocking. The need to improve the OL was clear, and Williams is a perfect player to improve it.

(05-03-2019, 11:22 AM)fredtoast Wrote: See guys, even BenZoo2 agrees with me.

A LONG career with a winning record while being handicapped by the worst owner in the league proves he is better than the majority.

If you look at Marvin's overall tenure here, it truly was the definition of mediocre:

16th in the NFL in total wins
8th in the AFC in total wins
3rd in the North in total wins

His overall record was helped by his solid numbers versus the NFC, where he went 37-24-3. 
Unfortunately, against his own conference, he was just 94-105 (including the playoffs). 

His time here was what it was...better than half the league, and not as good as the other half. He wasn't a great HC, but he wasn't a terrible one either. He was, well...mediocre.

(05-03-2019, 12:51 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: For once, I disagree with you. We had one of the league's worst run games under Paul Alexander. For over 10 years, we ranked 20th or worse in yards/carry. In 2017, we ranked 29th with a paltry 3.6 ypc. Under Pollack, we averaged 4.7 ypc - which was our best ranking since 2000. Almost 20 years. 

We went from talking like Joe Mixon was a bust to thinking he's a top 5 back. The pass blocking was still bad, but did show some improvement. In 2017, Dalton was sacked every 12.7 attempts. In 2018, he was sacked every 17.4 attempts. That's actually a pretty substantial improvement.

 I was pretty disappointed to see Pollack go. I think we lost a good one there. 

Yeah, I would've liked to see what the line looked like in it's second season under Pollack. 

Just hope they continue to improve and make significant strides with Turner.

(05-03-2019, 11:59 AM)Wyche Wrote: It could blow up spectacularly, or it could succeed.

Seems folks forget our last HC to go to a Super Bowl was a QB coach, then a HC with a 3-8 record for one year at a school that was outclassed in its conference.  He also hired a bunch of "nobodies" on his first staff.  What we got was innovation that changed the game forever.  You couple that with what players are saying, and what the staff, particularly ZT, have said in press conferences instead of "we did some good things", and it's pretty easy to see why there is some optimism.

Change is here.....FINALLY....why not embrace it?

Exactly!  

(05-03-2019, 01:06 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't think there's any surprise honestly. The OL was good in the run game, yes, but it was atrocious in pass blocking. The need to improve the OL was clear, and Williams is a perfect player to improve it.

I agree with Joelist though. Pollack did an admirable job with the players he was provided. We saw a big leap forward in the run game, and a modest improvement in pass blocking. We needed better players though, that was clear. 

(05-03-2019, 01:25 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Yeah, I would've liked to see what the line looked like in it's second season under Pollack. 

Just hope they continue to improve and make significant strides with Turner.

I think Turner has a similar mindset to Pollack and he'll have more talent, so I'm optimistic that we'll see continued improvement even without Pollack.

I just think it's funny that we waited 20+ years to get a new o-line coach, we get someone promising and he's gone after 1 year. 

(05-03-2019, 01:27 PM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: Exactly!  

I mean, I'm not thinking we're going to the Super Bowl in year 1 or anything, but I'm also digging the change.  He is saying a lot of right things, the draft looks like a good one with a plan to target character players, we'll just have to wait and see if the talk matches the walk.

Basically, most everyone here had grown tired of Marvin and said we needed change.  We got it.....and not only did we get it, we got a young guy with fresh ideas and an offensive mentality.  The exact opposite of what we had.  I'm just willing to let it play out and see what we have before I criticize the guy.....and I'm liking the changes he has made thus far.  It's a breath of fresh air.  If we say that Marvin was holding the team back, then we gotta believe that Zac will help push it to do better.  I think this is a club that could win up to 10 games.  I honestly don't think we'll have a losing record unless we get another IR fest, or I'm completely wrong about Zac Taylor.  If I am wrong, so were several among league circles and pundits.

(05-03-2019, 01:32 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I think Turner has a similar mindset to Pollack and he'll have more talent, so I'm optimistic that we'll see continued improvement even without Pollack.

I just think it's funny that we waited 20+ years to get a new o-line coach, we get someone promising and he's gone after 1 year. 

I wish pollack had stayed. Much prefer him over turner. Didn’t pollack choose to leave to pursue other openings or was he quietly shown the door because zac wanted someone else?


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I think the Bengals new motto should be "Embrace The Change"! I am as optimistic as I have been in a few years for this season. Hopefully we can get back to respectability.