(05-04-2019, 02:34 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: After Austin was fired, there was marginal improvement but nowhere even close to top 10. Once Marvin took over the defense, Cincinnati averaged giving up 361 yards (would’ve been good for the 22nd defense) and 23.8 points per game (would’ve been good for 18th). This included a game against the Browns where Baker and company put up 493 yards on Cincinnati in week 16.

They are a clear weakness on the team, there is no way around that unless players make insane jumps in ability/Lou is a defensive god.

Outside of the Browns game you mentioned in the last 4 games of the year Denver, LA, Raiders, and Pittsburgh the Defense gave up 322.25 yards, 20.5 points per game, and 32.7% on third down Defense.

(05-04-2019, 10:15 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Outside of the Browns game you mentioned in the last 4 games of the year Denver, LA, Raiders, and Pittsburgh the Defense gave up 322.25 yards, 20.5 points per game, and 32.7% on third down Defense.

That’s pretty heavily cherry picked. You’re removing the first few games because you want to give Marvin slack for having to make adjustments. Then you remove the Browns game because it doesn’t fit the narrative.

Those stats are certainly great and I hope the defense is at that level. However, they weren’t a top 10 defense after Austin left and I would be shocked if they were a top 10 defense this season. I certainly hope they are, though.

(05-04-2019, 11:25 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: That’s pretty heavily cherry picked. You’re removing the first few games because you want to give Marvin slack for having to make adjustments. Then you remove the Browns game because it doesn’t fit the narrative.

Those stats are certainly great and I hope the defense is at that level. However, they weren’t a top 10 defense after Austin left and I would be shocked if they were a top 10 defense this season. I certainly hope they are, though.

The Browns game was the outlier at the end of the year. The Defense was playing much better at the end of the year weather you like it or not.

(04-30-2019, 12:44 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I wouldn't worry about it too much.  I don't think Bush was going to be the pick even if he was there at #11.  With Jonah on the board, he would have been the pick regardless.

This ^^^ Our new head coach is offensive minded and the draft was going to reflect that.

(05-04-2019, 11:39 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: The Browns game was the outlier at the end of the year. The Defense was playing much better at the end of the year weather you like it or not.

Right, you’re removing it because it doesn’t fit your narrative of them being a top 10 defense. That’s also why you removed the Ravens game because it also didn’t fit. Hell, I’m surprised you left Denver in. They gave up 361 yards and 24 points to Denver, who averaged 350 yards (#19) and 20 points (#24).

The defense was marginally better after Austin left. They were still a below average defense, whether you like it or not.

(05-04-2019, 11:52 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Right, you’re removing it because it doesn’t fit your narrative of them being a top 10 defense. That’s also why you removed the Ravens game because it also didn’t fit. Hell, I’m surprised you left Denver in. They gave up 361 yards and 24 points to Denver, who averaged 350 yards (#19) and 20 points (#24).

The defense was marginally better after Austin left. They were still a below average defense, whether you like it or not.

 let's include the Browns game for sake of argument  if the Bengals played at that pace for the entire year that they played in final 5 weeks  they would have  been 17th in yards, 9th in points, 2nd in 3rd down percentage, and 2nd in first downs. 
Also I don't think Marvin was the main difference in the Defensive turn around but instead it was the addition of Nick Vigil in the Lineup.

(05-05-2019, 12:23 AM)Jakeypoo Wrote:  let's include the Browns game for sake of argument  if the Bengals played at that pace for the entire year that they played in final 5 weeks  they would have  been 17th in yards, 9th in points, 2nd in 3rd down percentage, and 2nd in first downs. 
Also I don't think Marvin was the main difference in the Defensive turn around but instead it was the addition of Nick Vigil in the Lineup.

Your math is wrong somewhere, because very little of this is correct. The Bengals, over the last five games, gave up 356.4 yards (would have been good for #19), 21.6 points (good for #11), 34.3% on third down (#5). Your first down stat is correct. The Bengals also gave up four fourth-down conversions on four fourth-down attempts.

They weren’t a top 10 defense no matter how you slice it.

(05-05-2019, 01:06 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Your math is wrong somewhere, because very little of this is correct. The Bengals, over the last five games, gave up 356.4 yards (would have been good for #19), 21.6 points (good for #11), 34.3% on third down (#5). Your first down stat is correct. The Bengals also gave up four fourth-down conversions on four fourth-down attempts.

They weren’t a top 10 defense no matter how you slice it.

In the last 5 games
1.) They we're top 5 in 3rd down and first down defense.Per 16 game pace
2.) They we're .1 points away from a top 10 scoring Defense per 16 game pace
Even if it's not technically a top 10 pace it's a vast improvement over being dead last isn't it? I think if they perform at that pace next season then a lot of people will be impressed by their performance.

(05-04-2019, 04:16 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Base Defense: MLB Preston Brown
                     SLB - Nick Vigil
                     WLB - Germaine Pratt

Nickel Defense: Nick Vigil
                       Germaine Pratt

I look for the LBs filling out the roster to be:

The issue with Pratt and Vigil in the nickel who where's the helmet to call the defense. If it's Brown he has to play nickle.

Pratt may earn that nickle spot but Vigil will have to warn the play calling and Pratt will have to earn thr nickle spot.

(05-04-2019, 08:08 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So, with that in mind;  Who are you going to bench, in order to get Bostic on the field?  I'm relatively certain that Brown is going to be the MIKE, and it would seem disingenuous to keep Pratt off the field.

I like Pratt just as much as anybody, but he hasn't proven anything yet. He could just as easily be the next Dontay Moch or Sean Porter as he could be "the guy" at LB. Brown and Vigil have both had injury problems recently. 

It's worth noting that today's league is one of sub-packages, matchups, rotations, and identity-shifting. Maybe having 3 designated "starters" is an outdated way of looking at things. Perhaps they want a designated "TE killer" or "RB man coverage specialist" or spy for some packages as opposed to just a generic WILL or MIKE? Maybe having the option to have two established run thumpers on the field might open up some possibilities for the d-line to pin their ears back. 

(05-05-2019, 09:14 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: I like Pratt just as much as anybody, but he hasn't proven anything yet. He could just as easily be the next Dontay Moch or Sean Porter as he could be "the guy" at LB. Brown and Vigil have both had injury problems recently. 

It's worth noting that today's league is one of sub-packages, matchups, rotations, and identity-shifting. Maybe having 3 designated "starters" is an outdated way of looking at things. Perhaps they want a designated "TE killer" or "RB man coverage specialist" or spy for some packages as opposed to just a generic WILL or MIKE? Maybe having the option to have two established run thumpers on the field might open up some possibilities for the d-line to pin their ears back. 

Weather you give them novelty titles or not, they still line up at SAM, MIKE. and WILL, prior to the snap of the ball.  They still need to respect the run, and damn well need to be able to stop it.

I get it, though.  Today's NFL offenses are designed to force defenses to cover one on one, and exploit weaknesses in coverages.  However, if you dedicate too much emphasis on coverage, they will just run it down your throat, at will..

(05-05-2019, 02:51 PM)Synric Wrote: The issue with Pratt and Vigil in the nickel who where's the helmet to call the defense. If it's Brown he has to play nickle.

Pratt may earn that nickle spot but Vigil will have to warn the play calling and Pratt will have to earn thr nickle spot.

Didn't Vigil have the green helmet last season?

(05-05-2019, 01:06 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Your math is wrong somewhere, because very little of this is correct. The Bengals, over the last five games, gave up 356.4 yards (would have been good for #19), 21.6 points (good for #11), 34.3% on third down (#5). Your first down stat is correct. The Bengals also gave up four fourth-down conversions on four fourth-down attempts.

They weren’t a top 10 defense no matter how you slice it.

The ONLY stat that matters is points allowed.  And they were pretty damn good after Marvin took over.  #11, yeah, like I said before, that's pretty much top 10.

Also keep in mind who they played down the stretch - Chargers, Browns and Steelers were all pretty good offenses.

The Bengals held those teams to 26, 26 and 16 without the benefit of any legitimate offense with Driskel at the helm.  If you don't think the defense played damn good under those conditions, then I don't know what to tell you.

Wonder if they make a run at Darron Lee? They declined his 5th year option and didn't show for OTA's

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/05/jets-darron-lee-fifth-year-option-bengals-trade/

(05-07-2019, 12:18 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: The ONLY stat that matters is points allowed.  And they were pretty damn good after Marvin took over.  #11, yeah, like I said before, that's pretty much top 10.

Also keep in mind who they played down the stretch - Chargers, Browns and Steelers were all pretty good offenses.

The Bengals held those teams to 26, 26 and 16 without the benefit of any legitimate offense with Driskel at the helm.  If you don't think the defense played damn good under those conditions, then I don't know what to tell you.

I unfortunately think this shows that the players struggle to learn a new system.

But yes, the defense did improve under Marvin. One thing I'll say was the offense was pretty bad by that time of the year though.

(05-07-2019, 12:44 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Wonder if they make a run at Darron Lee? They declined his 5th year option and didn't show for OTA's

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/05/jets-darron-lee-fifth-year-option-bengals-trade/

I would think the time to have traded for him would have been this past draft. We had a lot of picks, they didn’t. Once we drafted Davis I think the chances of trading for lee dropped


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If the Bengals can get back to at least a top-half-of-the-league defense while getting back to the offensive level they were showing early on last year, they should return to their winning ways. They didn't really do much to improve the defensive side of the ball aside from adding Pratt though.

If Pratt can show good play as a rookie, Vigil can stay healthy and play (at least) like he did last year, and Preston Brown can stay healthy and play like he did prior to coming to Cincinnati, the Bengals can have a decent LB unit. However, they'll still need a good pass rush to help them, so the Bengals will need Atkins, Dunlap, and Lawson to all stay healthy along with someone to step up and be a good nickel interior pass rusher. This last one is the biggest question mark of all right now.

(05-07-2019, 01:57 PM)ochocincos Wrote: They didn't really do much to improve the defensive side of the ball aside from adding Pratt though.

If Pratt can show good play as a rookie, Vigil can stay healthy and play (at least) like he did last year, and Preston Brown can stay healthy and play like he did prior to coming to Cincinnati, the Bengals can have a decent LB unit. However, they'll still need a good pass rush to help them, so the Bengals will need Atkins, Dunlap, and Lawson to all stay healthy along with someone to step up and be a good nickel interior pass rusher. This last one is the biggest question mark of all right now.

Things should be set up for the 2020 Draft to be heavy on Defense.

Until then, the few aging defensive Stars on the team have to stay healthy & some younger guys have to step up.

William Jackson III needs to shine as well as Bates III.

A talent infusion on Defense will be needed via the 2020 Draft.

It seems that just a few key injuries could sink this defense in 2019.

(05-07-2019, 02:27 PM)depthchart Wrote: Things should be set up for the 2020 Draft to be heavy on Defense.

Until then, the few aging defensive Stars on the team have to stay healthy & some younger guys have to step up.

William Jackson III needs to shine as well as Bates III.

A talent infusion on Defense will be needed via the 2020 Draft.

It seems that just a few key injuries could sink this defense in 2019.

Agreed, although next year's draft should also be strong for WRs and OTs. Bengals could most definitely use another OT and they may need/want another WR based on extensions for Green and Boyd and also Ross's development this season.

Health will be the biggest factor this year for the defense, as their depth is not very good at all.

(05-07-2019, 02:27 PM)depthchart Wrote: Things should be set up for the 2020 Draft to be heavy on Defense.

Until then, the few aging defensive Stars on the team have to stay healthy & some younger guys have to step up.

William Jackson III needs to shine as well as Bates III.

A talent infusion on Defense will be needed via the 2020 Draft.

It seems that just a few key injuries could sink this defense in 2019.

Given that they tried to trade up in round 2 for another ol doesn’t mean they won’t look at ot next year. May need another te depending upon on eifert, though I wouldn’t think it would be an early pick. Aj and Boyd need to be extended or wr is a need too


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