Over the past two years, I've seen a lot of criticism on Jordan Willis, the DE from K St that was drafted in the 3rd round in 2017.
He was outproduced by Lawson in 2017 and then Sam Hubbard last year.
I'm here to provide my reasoning for why he shouldn't be discounted already just because others have produced more immediately.
https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2017/4/10/15242190/jordan-willis-scouting-report-nfl-draft-2017-tools-kansas-state-pass-rusher-defensive-end-

As you will gather from reading the link above, Willis has the desired athleticism and college production that made him a quality selection in the 2017 NFL draft. The biggest worry was that he didn't always display that athleticism when pads were on. However, I think the article does a good job explaining that he didn't display much "bend" on tape because he didn't really have a good plan of attack when rushing the passer. He just typically tried to bully through the OL using his power and speed. And while it worked in college, he needed more to be able to succeed in the NFL.

The article mentions too that the likeliest way to fix this is through coaching technique and strategy. I think that if this can be overcome with the new coaching staff, Willis could emerge as a good base 4-3 DE that could even swing inside as nickel DT given he's up to 275 lbs now.

Everything is on hold right now. Everybody has a chance because for years all college players came here and then plateaued. No one seemed to improve under Marvin Lewis. Now they might actually see coaching that will help them improve and grow as players.

I dunno, I thought Jacob Burney did a good job as a DL coach, and produced some quality players. Some guys just can't move to the next level.... hopefully Willis does, but color me pessimistic at this point that a new coach will fix him.

the problem with Willis is he has 2 pass rush moves.
slow and slower.
He's not strong enough to push OT back into the pocket not
is he fast enough to come off the edge and do damage.
I see him get stood up with the greatest of ease.
I cant think of one thing he does well.
he might be a roster cut.

(05-07-2019, 03:35 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Everything is on hold right now. Everybody has a chance because for years all college players came here and then plateaued. No one seemed to improve under Marvin Lewis. Now they might actually see coaching that will help them improve and grow as players.

I can't wait to see what getting coached by an entire new staff does for a bunch of these young players.

(05-07-2019, 02:39 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Over the past two years, I've seen a lot of criticism on Jordan Willis, the DE from K St that was drafted in the 3rd round in 2017.
He was outproduced by Lawson in 2017 and then Sam Hubbard last year.
I'm here to provide my reasoning for why he shouldn't be discounted already just because others have produced more immediately.
https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2017/4/10/15242190/jordan-willis-scouting-report-nfl-draft-2017-tools-kansas-state-pass-rusher-defensive-end-

As you will gather from reading the link above, Willis has the desired athleticism and college production that made him a quality selection in the 2017 NFL draft. The biggest worry was that he didn't always display that athleticism when pads were on. However, I think the article does a good job explaining that he didn't display much "bend" on tape because he didn't really have a good plan of attack when rushing the passer. He just typically tried to bully through the OL using his power and speed. And while it worked in college, he needed more to be able to succeed in the NFL.

The article mentions too that the likeliest way to fix this is through coaching technique and strategy. I think that if this can be overcome with the new coaching staff, Willis could emerge as a good base 4-3 DE that could even swing inside as nickel DT given he's up to 275 lbs now.

I sure hope so, i was one of the ones really pushing for Willis in that Draft and he has really disappointed me so far to be honest.

Thought he would of been one of the most solid DE's in that class that can not only rush the passer but stop the run. Last year he looked huge, looked like a beast but did not produce. If he starts to play well in both the run game and as a passer our entire End situation will look really good.

(05-07-2019, 04:18 PM)impactplaya Wrote: the problem with Willis is he has 2 pass rush moves.
slow and slower.
He's not strong enough to push OT back into the pocket not
is he fast enough to come off the edge and do damage.
I see him get stood up with the greatest of ease.
I cant think of one thing he does well.
he might be a roster cut.

Those aren't his problems Impactplaya. He is very fast and very strong, but you cannot get away with just this in the NFL.

He needs to use his hands better and add more moves to his game, more swim moves, strafe moves, spin moves etc.

Michael Johnson played almost 500 snaps in 14 games last year. It will be interesting to see who picks up that slack. Johnson also played inside at DT on some passing downs. So those snaps may be split up among different players.

(05-08-2019, 04:08 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Those aren't his problems Impactplaya. He is very fast and very strong, but you cannot get away with just this in the NFL.

He needs to use his hands better and add more moves to his game, more swim moves, strafe moves, spin moves etc.

I will give you a,polite comparison.
Myles Garrett came out and said last week Gregg Williams 
limited hin to 2 moves...speed rush and bull rush.
yet somehow Garrett ended up with 13 sacks with 2 MOVES.
Willis cant even reach 5 on his limited arsonel.
I see Willis come off the ball and hands are in his numbers.
hes stood up negated. 
he has has no explosion coming off the ball. 
he lacks aggression too. 
he simply doesnt play angry.
hes a oversized cupcake.

(05-08-2019, 04:23 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I will give you a,polite comparison.
Myles Garrett came out and said last week Gregg Williams 
limited hin to 2 moves...speed rush and bull rush.
yet somehow Garrett ended up with 13 sacks with 2 MOVES.
Willis cant even reach 5 on his limited arsonel.
I see Willis come off the ball and hands are in his numbers.
hes stood up negated. 
he has has no explosion coming off the ball. 
he lacks aggression too. 
he simply doesnt play angry.
hes a oversized cupcake.

Myles Garrett is a rare talent and there is a reason he went #1 overall.

Maybe Willis needs to gain that attitude but he sure is a lunch pale type of player and works his ass off. You are right about his hands and maybe putting on that much weight last year slowed down his explosion cause he had good explosion and crazy speed in college and is very strong. He ran the fastest forty and was one of the top lifters in his Draft at End.

Hopefully Willis gains that killer instinct and learns from players like Hubbard in using his hands.

This along with losing some weight so he can gain back the explosion and he might become a good End for us.

(05-08-2019, 04:23 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I will give you a,polite comparison.
Myles Garrett came out and said last week Gregg Williams 
limited hin to 2 moves...speed rush and bull rush.
yet somehow Garrett ended up with 13 sacks with 2 MOVES.
Willis cant even reach 5 on his limited arsonel.
I see Willis come off the ball and hands are in his numbers.
hes stood up negated. 
he has has no explosion coming off the ball. 
he lacks aggression too. 
he simply doesnt play angry.
hes a oversized cupcake.

how many snaps for Garret compared to willis last year?

(05-08-2019, 05:51 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: how many snaps for Garret compared to willis last year?

Garrett had more sacks in one game last year than Willis had aĺl of last year.
how many double teams did Garrett face last year compared to Willis?
Hubbard out played Willlis clearly last year.
Willis is just plain out soft and has all the aggression of a Teddy Ruxpin talking bear.
in fact right now Id cut Willis and sign Ziggy Ansah now.

(05-08-2019, 05:51 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: how many snaps for Garret compared to willis last year?

to answer your question

Garrett 1012
Willis 537

so if Willis had 1000.snap counts in 2018 he would have finished with 2 sacks all year
if Garrett had roughly 537 snap.counts he would have been around the sack totals of 5.5 to 7ish.

Willis had fresher legs than Garrett in 2018 and still was a no.show at DE.

(05-08-2019, 04:23 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I will give you a,polite comparison.
Myles Garrett came out and said last week Gregg Williams 
limited hin to 2 moves...speed rush and bull rush.
yet somehow Garrett ended up with 13 sacks with 2 MOVES.
Willis cant even reach 5 on his limited arsonel.
I see Willis come off the ball and hands are in his numbers.
hes stood up negated. 
he has has no explosion coming off the ball. 
he lacks aggression too. 
he simply doesnt play angry.
hes a oversized cupcake.

WTF does Myles Garrett have to do with anything.

Are you seriously saying we should cut everyone who is not as good as Myles Garrett?

It is hard to take you seriously sometimes when you seem more interested in making personal insults about players instead of just critiquing their performance.  Sounds more like trolling than a logical analysis.  It is the same with commentators I hear on radio/TV.  The guys who really know what they are talking about don't worry about clever personal insults while the guys who use terms like "oversized cupcake" or "Teddy Ruxpin" usually don't know shit.  They are just trying to overcompensate for their ignorance by being more insulting.

(05-08-2019, 06:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: WTF does Myles Garrett have to do with anything.

Are you seriously saying we should cut everyone who is not as good as Myles Garrett?

It is hard to take you seriously sometimes when you seem more interested in making personal insults about players instead of just critiquing their performance.  Sounds more like trolling than a logical analysis.  It is the same with commentators I hear on radio/TV.  The guys who really know what they are talking about don't worry about clever personal insults while the guys who use terms like "oversized cupcake" or "Teddy Ruxpin" usually don't know shit.  They are just trying to overcompensate for their ignorance by being more insulting.

for one I didnt bring up.Myles Garrett. another poster brought up Myles Garrett.
second of your  getting worked over nothing.
you dont like the way I describe a player. 
I dont care. Im not here for your anyalyst of my anyalyst of a player.
memo to you.....I dont have adore or give props to any Bengals player. 
especially a K State cupcake who couldnt sack a Wal Mart door greeter.
face reality mister.
Some of this roster is under performing.
guess what...it also plays into 3 seasons of no playoffs and the team 
by the lake that  passed us by last year.
you better hope we get Myles Garrett like production out of our DEs this year.

(05-07-2019, 03:35 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Everything is on hold right now. Everybody has a chance because for years all college players came here and then plateaued. No one seemed to improve under Marvin Lewis. Now they might actually see coaching that will help them improve and grow as players.

Actually Marvin's staff was one of the better in the league at developing talent.

Over the 16 years he was head coach the Bengals had four players drafted in the fourth round or later who started over 100 games (Geathers, Atkins, Boling, Peko).  You know how many teams had more?  Only 2 (Titans, Colts)

(05-08-2019, 07:16 PM)impactplaya Wrote: for one I didnt bring up.Myles Garrett. another poster brought up Myles Garrett.

Once again you are 100% wrong and do not realize it.




**waits for the playa to claim that since the Bengals have had a losing record for three years that somehow proves everything he says is correct** 

We will see guys blossom this year who have underperformed in previous years. It's the new coaching staff.

It's not that Lewis wasn't a good coach.

It has to do with confidence. Young guys who come in from college and don't produce immediately, can lose confidence and at time never regain it.

Coaches are human. They see a kid struggling and it sticks in their mind. So it's a two way street.

With a couple of pro years under his belt and a clean slate, this kid can show his talent.

Remember that only a few players will come in with built in credit (Green, Atkins, Dunlap, Dalton, Mixon, etc). Everyone else will be treated similarly and evaluated based on how they learn and translate it to the field.

These are exciting times for guys who feel they didn't get a fair shake with previous coaches. Some of them will blossom and some will be shown the door.

I think Jordan and Jefferson will get a thorough and fair look by the new coaches.

I hope they succeed!

I'm hoping for the best out of Willis, but I'm not too confident, at this point. Honestly, I tend to agree with ImpactPlaya that Willis is kind of soft, and does not have the aggressiveness that it takes to win at the line of scrimmage. He's kind of looking like the Cedric Ogbuehi of DEs, at this point.

(05-08-2019, 07:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Once again you are 100% wrong and do not realize it.




**waits for the playa to claim that since the Bengals have had a losing record for three years that somehow proves everything he says is correct** 

your right I brought up.Garrett. Im corrected. Im right too. Willis is soft.