(05-12-2019, 05:58 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You're still not looking at the context. 

Steelers moved up in the first. Bengals moved up in later rounds. 

He specifically said they targeted the LB in the 1st round, at the expense of volume and asked if the Bengals would be willing to do that. 

I understand exactly what he said.  I even quoted it for you.

If he had just asked if the Bengals would be willing to move up in the first round that would have been a legit question, but when he tried to claim that the Bengals were tied to some sort of "volume of picks" approach when they just REDUCED the volume of their picks I had to point out his error.

And to repeat my answer, since the Bengals eschew big free agent signings they are more likely to hold onto their draft picks, but they have traded up in the first round so they could certainly do it again.

(05-07-2019, 03:20 PM)depthchart Wrote: I find what the Steelers did to be interesting.

Even after losing Le'veon Bell & especially Antonio Brown; they chose to Trade Up for Devin Bush.

They basically chose to target what they think of as a Star key defensive piece versus getting a larger volume of players.

I wonder if the Bengals would consider doing that in 2020 or will they feel that they have to stick with the volume of players approach.

The Bengals D may need some Star power added in 2020 yet other needs seem to always be hanging around.

They lost Ryan Shazier first, well before Bell and Brown....

(05-13-2019, 02:03 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: That's not the point. The point is, would they do something like that. 

(05-13-2019, 10:23 AM)fredtoast Wrote: If he had just asked if the Bengals would be willing to move up in the first round that would have been a legit question, but when he tried to claim that the Bengals were tied to some sort of "volume of picks" approach when they just REDUCED the volume of their picks I had to point out his error.

(05-13-2019, 11:24 AM)PAjwPhilly Wrote: They lost Ryan Shazier first, well before Bell and Brown....

The gist of what I was talking about has more to do with "Hole Filling" from year to year as seeming to be a priority.

Yes Fred, the Bengals started the Draft with 11 picks and ended with 10. (less volume)

Instead of splitting that hair, I'll say it splits in Fred's favor but let's get back to my gist.

Bengal fans seem used to the need to "Hole fill" and we tend to foresee a player departure like say Tyler Boyd leaving next season as opening a new hole to fill via next year's Draft.

The Steelers just had a Major Departure of Antonio Brown yet it did NOT trigger the Steelers to hold onto a 2nd & 3rd round pick to fill the holes of Brown/Bell/Shazier/another corner etc that seemed needing to be filled.

They decided to Target one Key piece by getting Devin Bush at the expense of losing a 2nd & 3rd round pick.

They gave up two High Quality picks to do so even though they could have used those high quality picks for more hole filling high quality volume.

Yes Fred, the Bengals have done this type of move in the past and the Gist of my Post was not that they never have done it.

My point is:  Will the Bengals seemingly remain in what appears to be a perpetual need to fill holes mindset -or- will they get to a point soon where they become willing to target a KEY PIECE in a trade up early ? (like the Steelers did even after losing Antonio Brown to make a glaring new hole)

Would a glaring new hole opening up for the Bengals in 2020 just trigger a fear to trade up early in the 2020 Draft at the expense of high quality picks from the Fanbase itself ?

For example, The Bengals lose Tyler Boyd next season yet trade a 2nd and 3rd round pick for a trade up for a much needed Star caliber linebacker in 2020.

To me, there seemed to be a fearlessness in what the Steelers did.

(04-30-2019, 12:03 PM)RASCAL Wrote: with those names on the roster, we need a miracle!!!

This^^^^
we have the sorriest group of linebackers in the league and the scary thing about that is we are post draft now.  Anyone who thinks this is even remotely close to good enough is starring in the new season of Lost.  its gonna be a long year on defense trying to stop the run......yikes!  never understood why not alot of people in here and apparently on the bengals staff doesnt value the linebacker position...its just pathetic.  smh

(05-13-2019, 12:49 PM)depthchart Wrote: The gist of what I was talking about has more to do with "Hole Filling" from year to year as seeming to be a priority.

Yes Fred, the Bengals started the Draft with 11 picks and ended with 10. (less volume)

Instead of splitting that hair, I'll say it splits in Fred's favor but let's get back to my gist.

Bengal fans seem used to the need to "Hole fill" and we tend to foresee a player departure like say Tyler Boyd leaving next season as opening a new hole to fill via next year's Draft.

The Steelers just had a Major Departure of Antonio Brown yet it did NOT trigger the Steelers to hold onto a 2nd & 3rd round pick to fill the holes of Brown/Bell/Shazier/another corner etc that seemed needing to be filled.

They decided to Target one Key piece by getting Devin Bush at the expense of losing a 2nd & 3rd round pick.

They gave up two High Quality picks to do so even though they could have used those high quality picks for more hole filling high quality volume.

Yes Fred, the Bengals have done this type of move in the past and the Gist of my Post was not that they never have done it.

My point is:  Will the Bengals seemingly remain in what appears to be a perpetual need to fill holes mindset -or- will they get to a point soon where they become willing to target a KEY PIECE in a trade up early ? (like the Steelers did even after losing Antonio Brown to make a glaring new hole)

Would a glaring new hole opening up for the Bengals in 2020 just trigger a fear to trade up early in the 2020 Draft at the expense of high quality picks from the Fanbase itself ?

For example, The Bengals lose Tyler Boyd next season yet trade a 2nd and 3rd round pick for a trade up for a much needed Star caliber linebacker in 2020.

To me, there seemed to be a fearlessness in what the Steelers did.

They have john connor who softened the blow of losing bell to say the very least as connor beasted and Ju ju is a top 10 wide receiver in the league.  they dont have to replace those two as connor stepped right in and replaced bell like an animal and having ju ju and antonio brown is a luxury not a must especially with a qb like Roethlisberger under center.  having a top tier middle linebacker who can fly sideline to sideline in that defense is a must which is why they made the move. smart on their part...while the bengals sat around and waited for pigs to fly. the steelers are typically always around winning seasons cuz their office knows what they are doing...our bengals are still looking for just anything to resemble any type of success. and im not talking a winning season im talking play off wins and maybe a championship game maybe a super bow appearence. something the steelers know all about. this organization not so much.

(05-13-2019, 01:43 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: This^^^^
we have the sorriest group of linebackers in the league and the scary thing about that is we are post draft now.  Anyone who thinks this is even remotely close to good enough is starring in the new season of Lost.  its gonna be a long year on defense trying to stop the run......yikes!  never understood why not alot of people in here and apparently on the bengals staff doesnt value the linebacker position...its just pathetic.  smh

Don't you guys know that Pratt, Jefferson, and Evans will all be stars with this new coaching staff? 

(05-13-2019, 01:49 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: They have john connor who softened the blow of losing bell to say the very least as connor beasted and Ju ju is a top 10 wide receiver in the league.  they dont have to replace those two as connor stepped right in and replaced bell like an animal and having ju ju and antonio brown is a luxury not a must especially with a qb like Roethlisberger under center.  having a top tier middle linebacker who can fly sideline to sideline in that defense is a must which is why they made the move.  smart on their part...while the bengals sat around and waited for pigs to fly.  the steelers are typically always around winning seasons cuz their office knows what they are doing...our bengals are still looking for just anything to resemble any type of success. and im not talking a winning season im talking play off wins and maybe a championship game maybe a super bow appearence. something the steelers know all about.  this organization not so much.

The bottom line is that out of 7 draft picks, a team is lucky to get 1 guy who steps in and starts Day 1.

The Steelers traded up to get a LB who will come in and start and that was a huge position of need.

Out of our 10 guys, there might be some that don't even make the roster.

The bottom line is we had more needs than we could fill via the draft due to having a poor free agency period.

But hey...we have a backup RT. Unless they waive Glenn and start Hart and Williams.

(05-13-2019, 02:06 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Don't you guys know that Pratt, Jefferson, and Evans will all be stars with this new coaching staff? 

Pratt could be a star and i am not kidding...

Also Haslett was terrible, this cannot be said enough and Tem has a fine resume.

These Linebackers don't need to be stars, they need to be in the right position, making solid tackles and covering TE's and RB's. Pratt was covering Wideouts on the edge in college for heck sake! We will be better at LB this year, the question is how much better.

(05-13-2019, 02:08 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The bottom line is that out of 7 draft picks, a team is lucky to get 1 guy who steps in and starts Day 1.

The Steelers traded up to get a LB who will come in and start and that was a huge position of need.

Out of our 10 guys, there might be some that don't even make the roster.

Agree and disagree.  With our linebacker group on the team now pratt would start mack wilson woudlve started david long wouldve started vosean joseph wouldve started cashman wouldve started and the list goes on.  draft picks and whether they get the nod day 1 all depends on who u have on the roster and we have literally noone worth a damn at linebacker cept pratt and mu could connvince me of brown but hes only a 2 down guy so really only one.  its gonna get scary this year unless we make a move for someone which we all know wont happen.

(04-30-2019, 12:44 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I wouldn't worry about it too much.  I don't think Bush was going to be the pick even if he was there at #11.  With Jonah on the board, he would have been the pick regardless.

Jonah would have been my pick regardless.  I think the Steelers wasted a lot of picks on Bush, but time will tell. 

(05-13-2019, 02:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Pratt could be a star and i am not kidding...

Also Haslett was terrible, this cannot be said enough and Tem has a fine resume.

These Linebackers don't need to be stars, they need to be in the right position, making solid tackles and covering TE's and RB's. Pratt was covering Wideouts on the edge in college for heck sake! We will be better at LB this year, the question is how much better.

Youre right pratt could be a star, however the rest we know are not.  hell the rest we know are simply not good.  so we a one potential star filled with a bunch of backups....its gonna get ugly this year on defense in regards to the run.  unless jefferson figures life out evans toughens up brown can play moer than two downs a series and vigil just simply becomes better but all we have right now is a solid rookie and a bunch of role players...my lord thats bad.

(05-13-2019, 03:00 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: Agree and disagree.  With our linebacker group on the team now pratt would start mack wilson woudlve started david long wouldve started vosean joseph wouldve started cashman wouldve started and the list goes on.  draft picks and whether they get the nod day 1 all depends on who u have on the roster and we have literally noone worth a damn at linebacker cept pratt and mu could connvince me of brown but hes only a 2 down guy so really only one.  its gonna get scary this year unless we make a move for someone which we all know wont happen.

Yes - beating out Hardy Nickerson Jr and Evans won't be that heard for Pratt or Jefferson and it doesn't necessarily mean they are great.

(05-13-2019, 03:39 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yes - beating out Hardy Nickerson Jr and Evans won't be that heard for Pratt or Jefferson and it doesn't necessarily mean they are great.

Really don’t have to be great. Just need them to do their jobs.

(05-13-2019, 03:35 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: Youre right pratt could be a star, however the rest we know are not.  hell the rest we know are simply not good.  so we a one potential star filled with a bunch of backups....its gonna get ugly this year on defense in regards to the run.  unless jefferson figures life out evans toughens up brown can play moer than two downs a series and vigil just simply becomes better but all we have right now is a solid rookie and a bunch of role players...my lord thats bad.

Players can become completely different players under good coaching.

What i have seen since Haslett was here was our Linebackers consistently out of position, hard to judge a Linebacker if he is put in a bad position to start with. We could see completely different Linebackers now without Haslett here and a new LB coach. We will see but i always disliked how Haslett coached.

Not like these guys all lack talent. Evans is big and fast, Vigil has some intangibles that are also rare, Preston led the league in tackles a couple of years ago and Jefferson is big, fast, athletic, can tackle and cover well. Malik definately needs to figure out the mental aspect of the game though, we will see how it goes.

I am not as scared as you are about the Linebackers brother. All they need to improve on is the fundamentals really. Shut down those damn dump offs that plagued us last year and we will be so much better.

We got nowhere to go but up at LB. I dont doubt that we are going to be better, but like Nate said, how much better? Vigil healthy, Preston healthy, more development of Jefferson hopefully, but then add in Pratt and Davis in the draft, and we should see improvement. I'm feeling that Davis will not only make the team but see the field plenty. I can see this dude being a steal the more I learn about him. Pratt looks like a beast in waiting. All this with a LB coach who seems way better than Haslett? I'm excited to see how it plays out.

(05-14-2019, 10:25 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Not like these guys all lack talent. Evans is big and fast, Vigil has some intangibles that are also rare, Preston led the league in tackles a couple of years ago and Jefferson is big, fast, athletic, can tackle and cover well. Malik definately needs to figure out the mental aspect of the game though, we will see how it goes.

I am not as scared as you are about the Linebackers brother. All they need to improve on is the fundamentals really. Shut down those damn dump offs that plagued us last year and we will be so much better.

May still have to insert a young Star at some point though. Best chance for that to happen may be in the 2020 Draft.


Compare with 2015 Bengal Linebackers: 

Vontaze Burfict,  AJ Hawk,  Rey Maualuga,  Vincent Rey,  Emmaunuel Lamur,  Paul Dawson,  Marquis Flowers


The current linebackers include 4 third round picks that are fairly young (Vigil, Brown, Pratt, Malik) so the New Coaches have a few guys with some positive traits to work with.

Burfict was the Key piece for the 2015 Unit and this Unit could sure use the addition of a Devin White caliber Star.

(05-14-2019, 11:24 AM)bengaloo Wrote: We got nowhere to go but up at LB. I dont doubt that we are going to be better, but like Nate said, how much better? Vigil healthy, Preston healthy, more development of Jefferson hopefully, but then add in Pratt and Davis in the draft, and we should see improvement. I'm feeling that Davis will not only make the team but see the field plenty. I can see this dude being a steal the more I learn about him. Pratt looks like a beast in waiting. All this with a LB coach who seems way better than Haslett? I'm excited to see how it plays out.

they don't have to be superstars just gotta do their job and make the tackles.

(05-14-2019, 11:36 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: they don't have to be superstars just gotta do their job and make the tackles.

Exactly. A great team is filled with guys who just do that simple thing. They do their job. Don't need superstars, although if some develop into that status then that's a plus. 

(05-13-2019, 12:49 PM)depthchart Wrote: The gist of what I was talking about has more to do with "Hole Filling" from year to year as seeming to be a priority.

Yes Fred, the Bengals started the Draft with 11 picks and ended with 10. (less volume)

Instead of splitting that hair, I'll say it splits in Fred's favor but let's get back to my gist.

Bengal fans seem used to the need to "Hole fill" and we tend to foresee a player departure like say Tyler Boyd leaving next season as opening a new hole to fill via next year's Draft.

The Steelers just had a Major Departure of Antonio Brown yet it did NOT trigger the Steelers to hold onto a 2nd & 3rd round pick to fill the holes of Brown/Bell/Shazier/another corner etc that seemed needing to be filled.

They decided to Target one Key piece by getting Devin Bush at the expense of losing a 2nd & 3rd round pick.

They gave up two High Quality picks to do so even though they could have used those high quality picks for more hole filling high quality volume.

Yes Fred, the Bengals have done this type of move in the past and the Gist of my Post was not that they never have done it.

My point is:  Will the Bengals seemingly remain in what appears to be a perpetual need to fill holes mindset -or- will they get to a point soon where they become willing to target a KEY PIECE in a trade up early ? (like the Steelers did even after losing Antonio Brown to make a glaring new hole)

Would a glaring new hole opening up for the Bengals in 2020 just trigger a fear to trade up early in the 2020 Draft at the expense of high quality picks from the Fanbase itself ?

For example, The Bengals lose Tyler Boyd next season yet trade a 2nd and 3rd round pick for a trade up for a much needed Star caliber linebacker in 2020.

To me, there seemed to be a fearlessness in what the Steelers did.

If the Bengals would have traded away multiple picks including their second round to move up to get Bush, my guess is many fans and experts would have trashed it as a very risky trade. Yes, the Steeler's gave up a ton to get a starting LB they feel helps their defense regain form, but at what expense to the offense and replacing Brown?

My point is just because they made that move does not mean it pans out once we know a year or 2 from now how the guys they could have had perform. May be greatest trade in NFL history or could be a major dud. Again, if it were Bengals who did, would they be getting the media love? I say no.