(05-15-2019, 09:49 AM)MentalRage Wrote: Didn't Jim Turner give the olinemen in Miami female blow up sex dolls and then gave one player (Martin) a male blow up sex doll? I think the problem was that Incognito and Turner were giving Martin a hard time about possibly being gay.

I know the blow up dolls were a joke, but if I'm running a franchise I'd like to think the coaches I hired would act a bit more professional. I highly doubt anything like that would happen in Andy Reid's or Belichick's locker room.

Yes, but it wasn't Martin that got the male doll......it was another teammate, and an inside joke.  I looked it all up back when he was hired, posted the link.  I'm sure it's buried here somewhere.

Also, Incognito wasn't the only headcase, it seems I recall Martin getting in some heat for threatening to kill someone, or something along those lines.  Again, all of this is somewhere on here in a thread about the Turner hire.

I'm by no means absolving Turner of any guilt, but it seems there were some mental issues at play here among the players themselves.  Incognito pulled a gun at a funeral FFS.

(05-15-2019, 02:07 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yes, but it wasn't Martin that got the male doll......it was another teammate, and an inside joke.  I looked it all up back when he was hired, posted the link.  I'm sure it's buried here somewhere.

Also, Incognito wasn't the only headcase, it seems I recall Martin getting in some heat for threatening to kill someone, or something along those lines.  Again, all of this is somewhere on here in a thread about the Turner hire.

I'm by no means absolving Turner of any guilt, but it seems there were some mental issues at play here among the players themselves.  Incognito pulled a gun at a funeral FFS.

Given how many Meetings, lunches, practices etc happen, a thing like this generally becomes constant & perpetual.

Fun and games to the bullies and the bullies usually don't want to give up their fun & games.

The major incidences get discussed in the Media but for each major incidence there can be dozens of smaller incidences.

Each time Martin enters a meeting he may hear laughs or snickering or get dirty looks or shunned or bumped into etc.

The tone of bullying can fill the room even when nothing is being said and that would wear on anyone.

Mental issues may have applied to Incognito & Martin (plus maybe even to Turner himself) after all, Turner was supposed to be the adult in the room. Turner likely got a certain amount of enjoyment from the palpable tone of bullying that likely filled the air somewhat perpetually when the O-line group got together.

(05-15-2019, 02:39 PM)depthchart Wrote: Given how many Meetings, lunches, practices etc happen, a thing like this generally becomes constant & perpetual.

Fun and games to the bullies and the bullies usually don't want to give up their fun & games.

The major incidences get discussed in the Media but for each major incidence there can be dozens of smaller incidences.

Each time Martin enters a meeting he may hear laughs or snickering or get dirty looks or shunned or bumped into etc.

The tone of bullying can fill the room even when nothing is being said and that would wear on anyone.

Mental issues may have applied to Incognito & Martin (plus maybe even to Turner himself) after all, Turner was supposed to be the adult in the room. Turner likely got a certain amount of enjoyment from the palpable tone of bullying that likely filled the air somewhat perpetually when the O-line group got together.

A lot of truth here.....and as I said, I'm not clearing Turner of any guilt whatsoever.  I just recall the article, and subsequent happenings, painted a different picture than what was initially uncovered.  As is the case with most things these days in the name of chasing the almighty scoop, the updated info becomes back page news to the first, often, sensationalized headlines.

I wholeheartedly agree bullying is a bunch of bupkis.

(05-15-2019, 03:10 PM)Wyche Wrote: A lot of truth here.....and as I said, I'm not clearing Turner of any guilt whatsoever.  I just recall the article, and subsequent happenings, painted a different picture than what was initially uncovered.  As is the case with most things these days in the name of chasing the almighty scoop, the updated info becomes back page news to the first, often, sensationalized headlines.

I wholeheartedly agree bullying is a bunch of bupkis.

Whether to hire a guy like Turner can become a fine line decision.

On one hand. people can learn lessons from mistakes, reform themselves and make good use of a 2nd chance. Hopefully Turner does this.

On the other hand, it is a risk for Zac to make this hire since Turner could allow some form of this to happen again under his watch.

I personally would have steered clear of hiring him but hopefully for all involved, Turner is a changed man and does a Great job.

(05-15-2019, 03:23 PM)depthchart Wrote: Whether to hire a guy like Turner can become a fine line decision.

On one hand. people can learn lessons from mistakes, reform themselves and make good use of a 2nd chance. Hopefully Turner does this.

On the other hand, it is a risk for Zac to make this hire since Turner could allow some form of this to happen again under his watch.

I personally would have steered clear of hiring him but hopefully for all involved, Turner is a changed man and does a Great job.

Well you and Fred make some good points.

I was equating my own locker room experiences with Martin's.  I did not realize the depth or pervasiveness of the behaviors and threats involved.  I thought it was just the usual childishness and stupidity of the standard locker room bullying.

Some pretty serious pathology here and I acknowledge my ignorance.

Like you I hope Turner has learned and does a great job.

(05-15-2019, 03:23 PM)depthchart Wrote: Whether to hire a guy like Turner can become a fine line decision.

On one hand. people can learn lessons from mistakes, reform themselves and make good use of a 2nd chance. Hopefully Turner does this.

On the other hand, it is a risk for Zac to make this hire since Turner could allow some form of this to happen again under his watch.

I personally would have steered clear of hiring him but hopefully for all involved, Turner is a changed man and does a Great job.

Very well said, time will tell.  Having said that, if this line comes out chewing nails and crapping out barbed wire.....this will all be a distant memory.

(05-15-2019, 02:39 PM)depthchart Wrote: Given how many Meetings, lunches, practices etc happen, a thing like this generally becomes constant & perpetual.

Fun and games to the bullies and the bullies usually don't want to give up their fun & games.

The major incidences get discussed in the Media but for each major incidence there can be dozens of smaller incidences.

Each time Martin enters a meeting he may hear laughs or snickering or get dirty looks or shunned or bumped into etc.

The tone of bullying can fill the room even when nothing is being said and that would wear on anyone.

Mental issues may have applied to Incognito & Martin (plus maybe even to Turner himself) after all, Turner was supposed to be the adult in the room. Turner likely got a certain amount of enjoyment from the palpable tone of bullying that likely filled the air somewhat perpetually when the O-line group got together.

These things while initially may seem harmless, can easily become divisive. And why would any coach or player want that? Martin and Incognito have been in the media even after this event with some seemingly bigger mental/emotional issues. I really hope they sort through some issues before they do something they can't take back. I think they have each gotten pretty close already.

And I am all for second chances once enough time has passed. All I can say is, I hope Turner realizes the NFL isn't high school and coaches at a higher level. You aren't going to have an elite unit with bullying as a teaching tool.

(05-15-2019, 03:55 PM)3wt Wrote: Well you and Fred make some good points.

I was equating my own locker room experiences with Martin's.  I did not realize the depth or pervasiveness of the behaviors and threats involved.  I thought it was just the usual childishness and stupidity of the standard locker room bullying.

Some pretty serious pathology here and I acknowledge my ignorance.

Like you I hope Turner has learned and does a great job.

The levels of bullying are definitely on a Spectrum from kid stuff to minimal to the ridiculous & dangerous levels.

Unfortunately, it is a part of the natural order of things from the time we are kids.

Likely impossible to ever completely stop everywhere.

It can be a controversial topic.

I actually benefited from being bullied by a few other tougher kids when I was in 7th grade and at a New School with all new kids. It was the more common middle school kids kind of punch in the arm type of bullying but the mental side of it was worse. Getting embarrassed in front of others or thinking there must be something wrong with me. It hit me like a ton of bricks back then and I spent a good portion of the 7th grade year figuring out how to deal with just these few bullies. Got a taste of how the real world could be at times and had to figure out how to make it stop. Started lifting weights, made some stands, called some bluffs etc. Later in High School I had courage built up from dealing with my 7th grade bullies to step in and stop some other kids from being bullied.

Some may not have the physical ability, mental ability or size to fight back. though, so it can remain torture for many & even have lasting negative effects on how they view themselves & others.

This may be why I like Charles Bronson. He is usually minding his own business in his movies and a bunch of clowns harm his family & neighborhood friends etc and then they stick their tongues out as if they can't be touched. Then Bronson stops them from harming anyone else.

Uh, oh - sounds like I may need to see Dr. Phil.  

(05-15-2019, 04:23 PM)Wyche Wrote: Very well said, time will tell.  Having said that, if this line comes out chewing nails and crapping out barbed wire.....this will all be a distant memory.

Could rack up delay of game penalties for that.

(05-15-2019, 02:07 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Yes, but it wasn't Martin that got the male doll......it was another teammate, and an inside joke.  I looked it all up back when he was hired, posted the link.  I'm sure it's buried here somewhere.

Also, Incognito wasn't the only headcase, it seems I recall Martin getting in some heat for threatening to kill someone, or something along those lines.  Again, all of this is somewhere on here in a thread about the Turner hire.

I'm by no means absolving Turner of any guilt, but it seems there were some mental issues at play here among the players themselves.  Incognito pulled a gun at a funeral FFS.

Thanks Wyche, nice when someone clears up the nonsense instead of spreading BS.

(05-15-2019, 03:23 PM)depthchart Wrote: Whether to hire a guy like Turner can become a fine line decision.

On one hand. people can learn lessons from mistakes, reform themselves and make good use of a 2nd chance. Hopefully Turner does this.

On the other hand, it is a risk for Zac to make this hire since Turner could allow some form of this to happen again under his watch.

I personally would have steered clear of hiring him but hopefully for all involved, Turner is a changed man and does a Great job.

Agreed, i don't care who he was, i care who he is.

(05-14-2019, 09:21 PM)Synric Wrote: I dont know about the Marines because I was in the Army. HOOAH, but once the drill sergeant made a guy cry in basic they took him to the side apologized and asked if he needed someone to talk too....

Its definitely not your grandpa's military anymore.

Hmm...wasn't that way at all when I was in basic (2006) but a lot has changed in 13 years.