(05-18-2019, 11:46 AM)motoarch Wrote: Feels awfully desperate way to try and justify taking this guy 2 rounds to early.

Sample wasn't getting out of the 2nd round, there were teams right behind us that were wanting to take him.

Its going to be fun coming back to threads around this time when Sample becomes a stud TE.

(05-18-2019, 10:10 PM)Beaker Wrote: Its going to be fun coming back to threads around this time when Sample becomes a stud TE.

Yep. This is the time of year apparently every draft pick is s future pro bowler so why even give opinions on anyone

I'm glad to see posts in this thread stating what we learned after the draft, namely that Sample was not going to last until our third round pick. I think a reason Sample was getting round 3-4 grades from draft websites is they have gotten infatuated with the receiving part of being a TE and forgotten the blocking piece - which depending on the system is equally or even more important.

(05-19-2019, 12:10 AM)Joelist Wrote: I'm glad to see posts in this thread stating what we learned after the draft, namely that Sample was not going to last until our third round pick. I think a reason Sample was getting round 3-4 grades from draft websites is they have gotten infatuated with the receiving part of being a TE and forgotten the blocking piece - which depending on the system is equally or even more important.

The Bengals had a really good blocking TE in Ryan Hewitt, but injuries took their toll on him.  Not since Rodney Holman, have the Bengals had a TE that was as equally valuable as a blocker, as he was as a receiver.  I'm counting on Sample being that complete football player that is able to help the team on every play, weather he touches the ball or not.

(05-18-2019, 11:46 AM)motoarch Wrote: Feels awfully desperate way to try and justify taking this guy 2 rounds to early.

I need you to back your comment with data please. Oh please make that data from sources within the NFL circle and not talking heads that are not employed by NFL franchises. I bet you would have had no problem with us drafting Mack Wilson in the second would you have?

(05-19-2019, 01:00 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The Bengals had a really good blocking TE in Ryan Hewitt, but injuries took their toll on him.  Not since Rodney Holman, have the Bengals had a TE that was as equally valuable as a blocker, as he was as a receiver.  I'm counting on Sample being that complete football player that is able to help the team on every play, weather he touches the ball or not.

I think Hewitt was in between a fullback and blocking TE weight wise. I am not sure compared to top blocking TE's he was every top 5 or top 10 in the league. But maybe someone with PFF can prove me wrong.

I don't think we have ever had a great blocking TE teamed with Eifert.

(05-19-2019, 12:07 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I think Hewitt was in between a fullback and blocking TE weight wise. I am not sure compared to top blocking TE's he was every top 5 or top 10 in the league. But maybe someone with PFF can prove me wrong.

I don't think we have ever had a great blocking TE teamed with Eifert.

Sample had the highest or second highest PFF rating as a blocker.  even higher than Hochenson.  

(05-19-2019, 08:20 AM)OSUfan Wrote: I need you to back your comment with data please. Oh please make that data from sources within the NFL circle and not talking heads that are not employed by NFL franchises. I bet you would have had no problem with us drafting Mack Wilson in the second would you have?

No I don't. It's opinion.  An opinion by it's very nature requires no supporting data or analysis.  If my goal was to convince you otherwise then sure but IDGAF what you believe and have no desire to convince you of anything.

This article doesn't.  Why am I held to a higher standard.

(05-18-2019, 10:10 PM)Beaker Wrote: Its going to be fun coming back to threads around this time when Sample becomes a stud TE.

I hope he does.  I think the issue is more that a lot of people thought he'd still be around in later rounds and we had bigger holes to fill.

(05-19-2019, 12:45 PM)motoarch Wrote: I hope he does.  I think the issue is more that a lot of people thought he'd still be around in later rounds and we had bigger holes to fill.

That's a strange way of looking at why the Bengals didn't take Mack Wilson in the 2nd round.  I mean he was also right there in the 3rd round, and they took Germaine Pratt, also a LB.  Then, Wilson was still there for all of the 4th round, and the Bengals still chose to leave him sit, along with all 31 other teams.

(05-19-2019, 12:43 PM)motoarch Wrote: No I don't. It's opinion.  An opinion by it's very nature requires no supporting data or analysis.  If my goal was to convince you otherwise then sure but IDGAF what you believe and have no desire to convince you of anything.

This article doesn't.  Why am I held to a higher standard.

You gotta keep in my any non positive thoughts or opinions on Bengal players are taking personally n shall not be tolerated. Just because Most had Sample going in the later rounds doesn’t mater. The bengals took him in round 2 which means pro bowler. Don’t ever question this organization, look how successful they’ve been.

Hopefully he’s a solid contributor but we shall see.

(05-19-2019, 12:52 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's a strange way of looking at why the Bengals didn't take Mack Wilson in the 2nd round.  I mean he was also right there in the 3rd round, and they took Germaine Pratt, also a LB.  Then, Wilson was still there for all of the 4th round, and the Bengals still chose to leave him sit, along with all 31 other teams.

This is how you compose a counter argument without being a dick.  The rest of you should take notes.

(05-19-2019, 12:59 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: You gotta keep in my any non positive thoughts or opinions on Bengal players are taking personally n shall not be tolerated.  Just because Most had Sample going in the later rounds doesn’t mater.  The bengals took him in round 2 which means pro bowler.   Don’t ever question this organization, look how successful they’ve been.  

Hopefully he’s a solid contributor but we shall see.

Hope you're correct.  I want him to succeed because o want the team to succeed.

(05-19-2019, 12:52 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's a strange way of looking at why the Bengals didn't take Mack Wilson in the 2nd round.  I mean he was also right there in the 3rd round, and they took Germaine Pratt, also a LB.  Then, Wilson was still there for all of the 4th round, and the Bengals still chose to leave him sit, along with all 31 other teams.

If you understand the argument, it is many believe Sample (according to pinions based on rankings) was taken a round or 2 early. On the other hand, a LN needy team passed on Wilson who was ranked a second round pick by most experts rankings.

I think the point is the rankings are far from gospel.

(05-19-2019, 12:59 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: You gotta keep in my any non positive thoughts or opinions on Bengal players are taking personally n shall not be tolerated.  Just because Most had Sample going in the later rounds doesn’t mater.  The bengals took him in round 2 which means pro bowler.   Don’t ever question this organization, look how successful they’ve been.  

Hopefully he’s a solid contributor but we shall see.

Most of who? Talking heads that talk about someone having said skills as opposed to those who actually evaluate those said skills and draft according to those skills?

(05-19-2019, 02:55 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If you understand the argument, it is many believe Sample (according to pinions based on rankings) was taken a round or 2 early. On the other hand, a LN needy team passed on Wilson who was ranked a second round pick by most experts rankings.

I think the point is the rankings are far from gospel.

Early rankings are no bueno but rankings near draft time are normally pretty damn accurate. Most has Wilson dropping big time. He went from 1 st rounder to start the year to 4or 5 th rounder once people started watching game tape on the guy. Most also had Sample in the 5th 6th round range obviously the Bengals didn’t.

(05-19-2019, 02:55 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If you understand the argument, it is many believe Sample (according to pinions based on rankings) was taken a round or 2 early. On the other hand, a LN needy team passed on Wilson who was ranked a second round pick by most experts rankings.

I think the point is the rankings are far from gospel.

I agree.  I also remember there being a conversation or two on that very topic on here, shortly before the mock draft season began.  A point was made (can't remember exactly who said it);  That with so many people doing prospect rankings, and so many of them getting their information from the same services, a lot of them are just echoing the same stuff without actually watching enough game footage of these players to form critical opinions of them.

The ratings services are such a watered down echo chamber these days, that when someone actually puts in the work and comes up with a different ranking than the majority, they are viewed as the outlier and therefore must be getting it wrong.

In the case with Sample, many of these prospect raters simply overlooked him, because his receiving numbers weren't outstanding.  They simply dismissed the fact that Sample is a fully developed, complete football player who can proficiently handle all aspects of the TE position.  So much to the fact that when the NFL community (the guys that actually coach and develop player talent) took a look at him and saw his true value, it was somewhat of a shock to the fan community.

(05-19-2019, 03:38 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: In the case with Sample, many of these prospect raters simply overlooked him, because his receiving numbers weren't outstanding.  They simply dismissed the fact that Sample is a fully developed, complete football player who can proficiently handle all aspects of the TE position.  So much to the fact that when the NFL community (the guys that actually coach and develop player talent) took a look at him and saw his true value, it was somewhat of a shock to the fan community.

This is great. He's as fundamental as any coach could ask. I believe he will make all realize he was chosen at the right spot and also make others stand and respect the knowledge of ZT and this staff. As has been said many times, most of these coaches are college coaches who know what an asset this guy brings to the Bengals. They were not swayed by the numbers. This kid is going to be solid brick in the foundation of the offense as long as he stays healthy.

(05-19-2019, 03:35 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Early rankings are no bueno but rankings near draft time are normally pretty damn accurate.  Most has Wilson dropping big time.  He went from 1 st rounder to start the year to 4or 5 th rounder once people started watching game tape on the guy.   Most also had Sample in the 5th 6th round range obviously the Bengals didn’t.

Who are the most that had Wilson dropping to the 4th or 5th round? I saw not a single site that had Wilson dropping. I would love to see a link to this info.

Again these sites really don't matter. What matters is the assessment of actual NFL teams and the info coming out is that many teams had Sample valued just as highly as the Bengals did.