I got the part about Jon going way, way North correct. The rest was kinda garbage.

(05-19-2019, 11:42 PM)samhain Wrote: That finale and last season was a giant joke on everyone who watched that show and loved it for a decade.  Brandon Stark was a filler storyline compared to John, Dany, Tyrion, Arya, Sansa, Jaime, and Cersei.  He went from non-human spiritually transcendent being to smiling monarch in a 10 minute scene.  Absolutely egregious.  

The acting was fine.  The imagery and scenery was great.  The writing was absolute trash.

Yes, absolutely.  But XenoMorph is going to take you to task.

I don't pretend to imagine how pissed off book readers are.

Man! What a shit deal for Jon Snow, eh!

I give it a 6/10 for content, and a 2/10 for delivery. On the whole, a pretty disappointing finish to the series.

My gripes are the same as they've ever been. The individual points, like Dany's death, Jon going north of the wall etc. are all reasonable results to the overarching narrative that was being put together. But the way we got there was underwhelming, at the absolute best.

People will be up in arms about it, but it's worth remembering that this is more than likely the ending that GRRM had in mind for the series, at least broadly. There will certainly be more detail in the books, which was something that the TV show sorely missed these past two seasons. I for one think that it can be a satisfying ending in prose form, and I kind of hope GRRM doesn't let the inevitable backlash affect his decisions going forward. Partly because I do think the ending can make sense, and partly because if he has to go back to the drawing board, it's all but certain he doesn't finish the books before he dies.

If anything, hopefully going forward this is a lesson learned that adaptations should be done AFTER the source material is 100% done. D&D were put in a tough position. They didn't handle it as well as they could have, but given the circumstances I have a hard time calling for their heads. They were never meant to be the ones finishing GRRM's story.

(05-20-2019, 09:22 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: My gripes are the same as they've ever been. The individual points, like Dany's death, Jon going north of the wall etc. are all reasonable results to the overarching narrative that was being put together. But the way we got there was underwhelming, at the absolute best.

Broadly speaking, they DID finish the story.  And I don't think anything was terribly unreasonable, although Bran is not a man and doesn't care about those things....except "I didn't get dressed up for nothing - I came here to become King".  For the most part, they answered the big question and wrapped-up key character arcs.  But, yeah, there's like 2 seasons of crap that happened off-screen to get there.

I don't think it would have mattered if they had 3-4 more years, or if RR finished the books.  D&D didn't appear all that interested in anything other than a character drama - they write great dialogues and interactions.  If we're being honest, they were rarely good at advancing an actual plot.  The best example of that is the entire Night King arc - 8 seasons of build-up eded in one quick anti-climactic blade stroke.  The NK didn't talk and there was no one to play off of, so you can see D&D didn't really know what to do with him.  Frankly, the NK arc is a giant dud.

So they overplayed and oversold the NK arc, and then end the whole throne thing rather anti-climatically. I didn't hate the ending, nor did I hate this last season.  But it was far from great tv.  Peter Dinklage, by the way, completely carried the finale or it would have been a disaster.

(05-19-2019, 11:42 PM)samhain Wrote: That finale and last season was a giant joke on everyone who watched that show and loved it for a decade.  Brandon Stark was a filler storyline compared to John, Dany, Tyrion, Arya, Sansa, Jaime, and Cersei.  He went from non-human spiritually transcendent being to smiling monarch in a 10 minute scene.  Absolutely egregious.  

The acting was fine.  The imagery and scenery was great.  The writing was absolute trash.

Brandon was a catalyst to a lot that happened....   while he himself did little lots of the story happened in part due to him.





So in the End no one knows about Jon. except a few and hes banished for saving the realm twice....  and takes in stride...


But Arya goes West is coming....  lol

(05-20-2019, 04:31 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: Man! What a shit deal for Jon Snow, eh!

I really don't understand that.

So absolutely nothing came of Varys' plotting and letters?  Everyone is assembled to choose a king - notably absent the actual true heir to the throne.  And Tyrion - fresh off backing a mass murdering psychopath - is like "hey, let's crown the crippled boy".  And everyone else is suddenly like "great idea!"?

Anyone else have a problem with the guy who had been portrayed as being above the petty "games" of humans fighting for the throne showing up and saying "why else do you think I was here"? If he knew how this was all going to go down it makes Bran out to be an asshole who was really just furthering his own ambitions by doing practically nothing for the last season plus.

Why again would a bunch of leaders of well to do houses picking one of their own to be King somehow be "breaking the wheel"?

Also, why does the north just get to be their own kingdom and no one seems to care?

(05-20-2019, 10:33 AM)Au165 Wrote: Anyone else have a problem with the guy who had been portrayed as being above the petty "games" of humans fighting for the throne showing up and saying "why else do you think I was here"? If he knew how this was all going to go down it makes Bran out to be an asshole who was really just furthering his own ambitions by doing practically nothing for the last season plus.

Why again would a bunch of leaders of well to do houses picking one of their own to be King somehow be "breaking the wheel"?

Also, why does the north just get to be their own kingdom and no one seems to care?

To your last question, because Bran did a solid for his sister!

Otherwise, I completely agree.  Makes me think Bran might of "Hodor'd" Tyrion to some degree....I think deep down Bran is a psychopath.  If you want to create a police state, no better way than giving power to the guy that knows and sees everything.  I'm sure that ends well.

The nihilistic take is that Bran is an agreeable choice BECAUSE he's just a boy, weak and unable to produce an heir.  Yeah, you can't plot against the guy, but I'm not sure most of the houses realize that.  You KNOW someone else will eventually rule, and that could be your son, by force or otherwise.

In retrospect, maybe choosing to do a TV series based upon books from a guy who only produces one book a decade may not have been such a good idea, eh.

"Oh! Hey, Jon. We are sending you up North to lead the Night's Watch and rebuild the wall even though there is no more Night King because the eunuch's feelings got hurt when you killed the psychopath. Good luck with that!"

(05-20-2019, 11:31 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: "Oh! Hey, Jon. We are sending you up North to lead the Night's Watch and rebuild the wall even though there is no more Night King because the eunuch's feelings got hurt when you killed the psychopath. Good luck with that!"

Why didn't the king just pardon jon when all the eunuch's where on the boat and leaving?

(05-20-2019, 11:43 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Why didn't the king just pardon jon when all the eunuch's where on the boat and leaving?

A Targaryen with a rightful claim to the throne? Clearly, Bran didn't want him around.

(05-20-2019, 10:43 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: To your last question, because Bran did a solid for his sister!

Otherwise, I completely agree.  Makes me think Bran might of "Hodor'd" Tyrion to some degree....I think deep down Bran is a psychopath.  If you want to create a police state, no better way than giving power to the guy that knows and sees everything.  I'm sure that ends well.

The nihilistic take is that Bran is an agreeable choice BECAUSE he's just a boy, weak and unable to produce an heir.  Yeah, you can't plot against the guy, but I'm not sure most of the houses realize that.  You KNOW someone else will eventually rule, and that could be your son, by force or otherwise.

Almost any of the major houses left have ties to the starks too.

Even when it was "7" kingdoms it was pretty much the north and 6 kingdoms

Thoughts:

The council was rushed. You have a random collection of people, half related to Bran, picking Bran? Give me a full great council of all the houses, with that witty and smart GOT writing.

Jon didn't need to go to the Wall after Greyworm left

There's no need for the Watch. Even if it's a place for the rejects, they need a purpose. There is no more purpose. You're looking at a mutiny.

Jon should have chosen to lead the freefolk as a means to ensure his parentage never compromised Bran's rule. Let the idea of Targaryen rule die with Jon. I like the idea of him leading them, just not how he was forced there.

If the North leaves, the Iron Islands and Dorne would 100% leave too

Bronn shouldn't be the lord of Highgarden, the lord paramount of the Reach, nor the Master of coin. He has no experience for any of that. He has proven himself to not be a good person or one who cares about others. It's the most populous and the now wealthiest kingdom. There are many houses with ties to the Tyrells who are rich and powerful that would lead the Reach. Bronn also has no experience with larges amounts of money and had to be explained what money lending was...

The archmaesters pick one of their own to be grand maester. Think of the pope. Someone who is only a trainee can't be grand maester, sorry Sam. It's like someone who just graduated seminary school being pope.

The finale montage was good, though.

(05-20-2019, 02:14 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Bronn shouldn't be the lord of Highgarden, the lord paramount of the Reach, nor the Master of coin. He has no experience for any of that. He has proven himself to not be a good person or one who cares about others. It's the most populous and the now wealthiest kingdom. There are many houses with ties to the Tyrells who are rich and powerful that would lead the Reach. Bronn also has no experience with larges amounts of money and had to be explained what money lending was...

But a Lannister always pays their Debts... at least Tyrion kept his word.



I get that the great council wasn't that great.. but there isn't a lot of great lords/ladies left...  Most houses are probly ran by children now

Did anyone else immediately think of Frodo baggins when arya said she was leaving by boat ??

Bran's first act as King is demand a better name than Bran the Broken.

So it does seem Bran maybe did see this coming (like he literally said).....which is seriously dark. Let all those people get roasted because it was the only way you could get the throne? Hey, your intentions are pure and you'll make the world a better place - allowing a massacre is no big deal, right?

Bran would coldly do the math. But unless he's super-3ER, others before him didn't use their powers for politics, I don't think. Not for themselves directly, anyway, that we would know of? And that's even darker. Send Jon away and then go looking for a dragon - doesn't look like the actions of someone who doesn't want the throne.

Or maybe he intends to be an absentee ruler and Tryion de-facto calls the shots. Tyrion the only guy for the job, and the only way that can happen is if Bran becomes King?