FootballOutsiders has a formula they use to try and separate the RB skills from the O-line skills when grading run blocking.  They penalize the O-line for tackles for loss or zero gain, and give the RBs more credit for yards gained more than 5 yards past the line of scrimmage.  It is called "adjusted line yards".  Based on just the standard "avg per carry" the Bengals 4.7 avg ranks 8th in the league, but their "adjusted line yards" is only 4.1 and ranked 22nd.  We averaged 4.7 per carry because our RBs ranked 11th in "second level yards per carry" (5 to 10 yards past line of scrimmage) and 3rd in "open field yards per carry" (10+ yards past line of scrimmage).

They also rank O-lines on "power success" (3rd or 4th down with 2 yards or less to go, and anything within 2 yard line).  The Bengals actually di very well in this category ranking 7th in the league.

Finally they calculate an "adjusted sack rate" that takes into account sacks and intentional groundings per attempt adjusted for down distance and opponent.  Bengals ranked 19th in this metric.

So while these numbers are bad, they are not as bad as some people here seems to think.  Lots of people here claimed we had one of the worst O-lines in the league last year and claim we will be bottom 5 in 2019.

I am hoping Price will be a different player with a healthy offseason to work out and get stronger, plus we added the best O-lineman in the draft.  I don't think we will have a great O-line next year, but it should be easily in the top half of the league.

Here are all the rankings......https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

They just couldn't pass this one simple test though.. 

This just in:

It's because of Andy's quick release.

I do think the running breakdown does show that Hart was the absolute worst starting LT in the NFL sealing the edge. But when asked to open up a hole on the interior he was actually quite good. Of all the shuffling we try I hope one of them is Hart at RG.

Do the numbers factor in penalties at all? Lot of flags coming from the right side of the line last year...

I think that as bad as our offensive line has been, it's not necessarily as bad as we think it is. I think it's mostly the new normal as far as the NFL is concerned - what used to be a bad line is now an average line, and the worst lines now are as bad as they've ever been. Not to say the Bengals can't improve here (they absolutely can), just my two cents.

We've also been spoiled by about a decade of awesome offensive line play.

(05-20-2019, 06:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This just in:

It's because of Andy's quick release.

I do think the running breakdown does show that Hart was the absolute worst starting LT in the NFL sealing the edge. But when asked to open up a hole on the interior he was actually quite good. Of all the shuffling we try I hope one of them is Hart at RG.

It's hard to pinpoint specific players, particularly on edge run statistics.  Often, it can be the TE, a pulling G, or a crash blocking WR who's job it is to set the edge, not just the T.

Andy was also out a good chunk of the year.

PFF had us ranked 27th which was better (28th) than last the year before. Interestingly the Steelers had the best line and Browns 2nd best line and Ravens 10. The Rams had the 6th best line.

Of the Top 10 lines, only the Packers, Steelers, and Browns didn't make the playoffs.

Cordy Glenn and Billy Price were supposed to come in and fix the Bengals’ reeling offensive line this season, but both came in and fell victim to what might be a cursed unit. Glenn had the lowest-graded season of his career at 60.9 overall, and he gave up a career-high 36 pressures. Price didn’t fare any better with a 49.4 overall grade in a season marred with injury.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-after-week-17

(05-20-2019, 06:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: FootballOutsiders has a formula they use to try and separate the RB skills from the O-line skills when grading run blocking.  They penalize the O-line for tackles for loss or zero gain, and give the RBs more credit for yards gained more than 5 yards past the line of scrimmage.  It is called "adjusted line yards".  Based on just the standard "avg per carry" the Bengals 4.7 avg ranks 8th in the league, but their "adjusted line yards" is only 4.1 and ranked 22nd.  We averaged 4.7 per carry because our RBs ranked 11th in "second level yards per carry" (5 to 10 yards past line of scrimmage) and 3rd in "open field yards per carry" (10+ yards past line of scrimmage).

They also rank O-lines on "power success" (3rd or 4th down with 2 yards or less to go, and anything within 2 yard line).  The Bengals actually di very well in this category ranking 7th in the league.

Finally they calculate an "adjusted sack rate" that takes into account sacks and intentional groundings per attempt adjusted for down distance and opponent.  Bengals ranked 19th in this metric.

So while these numbers are bad, they are not as bad as some people here seems to think.  Lots of people here claimed we had one of the worst O-lines in the league last year and claim we will be bottom 5 in 2019.

I am hoping Price will be a different player with a healthy offseason to work out and get stronger, plus we added the best O-lineman in the draft.  I don't think we will have a great O-line next year, but it should be easily in the top half of the league.

Here are all the rankings......https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Those numbers are definately better than I would have expected.

Interestingly...possibly only Price will be playing the same position next season on the line.

These are two of my favorite tweets from early in the 2018 season. This was right after the first Squeelers game.

#Bengals' Alex Redmond allowed a team-high five total pressures against the #Steelers on Sunday, pushing his season total to 26 -- the second-highest total among guards in the NFL.

— PFF CIN Bengals (@PFF_Bengals) October 15, 2018

#Bengals G Alex Redmond has allowed 12 total pressures (eight hurries, two hits & two sacks) within 2.5 seconds of the snap, the most of any OL in the NFL through Week 6.

— PFF CIN Bengals (@PFF_Bengals) October 15, 2018

(05-20-2019, 08:02 PM)Synric Wrote: These are two of my favorite tweets from early in the 2018 season. This was right after the first Squeelers game.

#Bengals' Alex Redmond allowed a team-high five total pressures against the #Steelers on Sunday, pushing his season total to 26 -- the second-highest total among guards in the NFL.

— PFF CIN Bengals (@PFF_Bengals) October 15, 2018

#Bengals G Alex Redmond has allowed 12 total pressures (eight hurries, two hits & two sacks) within 2.5 seconds of the snap, the most of any OL in the NFL through Week 6.

— PFF CIN Bengals (@PFF_Bengals) October 15, 2018

Damn!

(05-20-2019, 06:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: FootballOutsiders has a formula they use to try and separate the RB skills from the O-line skills when grading run blocking.  They penalize the O-line for tackles for loss or zero gain, and give the RBs more credit for yards gained more than 5 yards past the line of scrimmage.  It is called "adjusted line yards".  Based on just the standard "avg per carry" the Bengals 4.7 avg ranks 8th in the league, but their "adjusted line yards" is only 4.1 and ranked 22nd.  We averaged 4.7 per carry because our RBs ranked 11th in "second level yards per carry" (5 to 10 yards past line of scrimmage) and 3rd in "open field yards per carry" (10+ yards past line of scrimmage).

They also rank O-lines on "power success" (3rd or 4th down with 2 yards or less to go, and anything within 2 yard line).  The Bengals actually di very well in this category ranking 7th in the league.

Finally they calculate an "adjusted sack rate" that takes into account sacks and intentional groundings per attempt adjusted for down distance and opponent.  Bengals ranked 19th in this metric.

So while these numbers are bad, they are not as bad as some people here seems to think.  Lots of people here claimed we had one of the worst O-lines in the league last year and claim we will be bottom 5 in 2019.

I am hoping Price will be a different player with a healthy offseason to work out and get stronger, plus we added the best O-lineman in the draft.  I don't think we will have a great O-line next year, but it should be easily in the top half of the league.

Here are all the rankings......https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

I am surprised, thought we were worse. Lots of optimism for being better in 2019 if they can fit the right puzzle pieces in the right place which appears they are attempting to do with moving guys around.

Redmond would have been benched by any other HC
but Lewis had a serious man crush in him.
He might be cut if Glenn pans out and Miller can hold down that RG spot.

In the big, giant picture our line was, I hate to use the word decent so how about ok ? But that doesn't mean in any way they weren't awful on plays, series, against certain teams, and entire games ! Players had terrible games and just on and on. The two players on the right led the league in penalties.

There's a ton of room for improvement to say the least.

I know Hart is the new whipping boy. But, they signed him to a new deal and that was after Zac was hired and a new OL line coach was hired. My point is 2 OL coaches wanted him it appears so they must see something casual fans do not or no way they give him that much money.

Maybe we have written off Hart too soon. In Zac we either trust or don't. This is clearly his team.

Interesting. Do you happen to have 2017's numbers, because if I remember correctly that was a real shitty oline. I definitely thought we improved in 2018 with Glenn at LT and the Price/Hopkins at center and Hart playing ok some games and not so ok others. It sure seems like they were better than CedO, Jake Fischer, etc.

(05-20-2019, 08:45 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am surprised, thought we were worse. Lots of optimism for being better in 2019 if they can fit the right puzzle pieces in the right place which appears they are attempting to do with moving guys around.

Mixon was insanely good running the ball and made something out of nothing a decent amount. In those stats, that would help the offensive line look better.

But no doubt they improved some from 2017.

(05-20-2019, 08:59 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: In the big, giant picture our line was, I hate to use the word decent so how about ok ? But that doesn't mean in  any way they weren't awful on plays, series, against certain teams, and entire games ! Players had terrible games and just on and on. The two players on the right led the league in penalties.

There's a ton of room for improvement to say the least.

The line wasn't decent or ok. They were maybe below average at best or bad instead of terrible.

PFF ranked our like 27. That's not decent or ok.

In 2017, PFF had our offensive line ranked 28. In 2018, 27. We improved 1 spot.

28. Cincinnati Bengals
Total pressures surrendered: 158
Best player: Clint Boling
Combinations used: 21
Prior to the 2017 season, the Bengals chose not to retain free agents Andrew Whitworth and Kevin Zeitler. That decision came back to bite them during the season as Cincinnati’s offensive line heavily struggled in 2017. The Bengals had 10 different offensive linemen play at least 80 snaps and all 10 of them gave up at least one sack. However, Cincinnati’s struggles were not limited only to pass protection. The Bengals averaged just 3.17 yards (and 0.93 yards before contact) on outside zone runs, which was the fifth-lowest in the NFL and the third-lowest among teams that used this concept at least 100 times.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-offensive-lines-from-the-2017-nfl-season

(05-20-2019, 10:31 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: In 2017, PFF had our offensive line ranked 28. In 2018, 27. We improved 1 spot.

28. Cincinnati Bengals
Total pressures surrendered: 158
Best player: Clint Boling
Combinations used: 21
Prior to the 2017 season, the Bengals chose not to retain free agents Andrew Whitworth and Kevin Zeitler. That decision came back to bite them during the season as Cincinnati’s offensive line heavily struggled in 2017. The Bengals had 10 different offensive linemen play at least 80 snaps and all 10 of them gave up at least one sack. However, Cincinnati’s struggles were not limited only to pass protection. The Bengals averaged just 3.17 yards (and 0.93 yards before contact) on outside zone runs, which was the fifth-lowest in the NFL and the third-lowest among teams that used this concept at least 100 times.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-offensive-lines-from-the-2017-nfl-season

Numbers are all well and good but you have to apply it to the games.

Early in the season they could score quick on big plays but couldnt close out games by sustaining drives especially with the run game in the second half like Indianapolis and Atlanta. So they put their selves in alot of 3rd and long situations that allowed for more straight pass rush opportunities for opposing defenses.

Second half of the season after Driskel they could run but couldnt even pass for 200 yards a game.

It was a real shit show. Hopefully they will fix something and players stay healthy.

Wow, we went up one spot from 2017. Who were our starting tackles? Ogbuehi and Smith? Or did Fisher take the starting spot. I can't remember. I blocked it out of my memory due to PTSD