(05-26-2019, 09:44 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: True, and what would every teams fans and media be saying about us? Didn’t beat anyone good last year, haven’t won a playoff game since... and year after year that all stays valid. Browns are what they are until they prove otherwise. Same for us. Same for their 20th qb savior in the last 20 years. Talk is cheap, paper teams are cheap. None of the matters until they actually prove they are any better than they’ve been before.

Indeed. They actually have to win on the field.

What is McCoy's perception? Hard to say. Cleveland has A LOT of buzz with OBJ and Hunt.

The Bengals buzz? Maybe he'll be impressed that we retained Hart and signed Wynn, Webb, and Miller? 

(05-26-2019, 09:39 PM)NKURyan Wrote: We wouldn't, but they would.

Just the homers.

(05-26-2019, 08:49 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Man some of you are in complete denial about Mayfield. He’s the real deal. And yes I hate it as much as you do.

(05-26-2019, 09:15 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And every other rookie QB only plays elite teams? Didn’t think so. Yet Mayfield still set the rookie record when he didn’t even start all 16 games. Chalking it all up to the competition is weak. If a Bengals QB set that record I guarantee we wouldn’t be discounting because we played the Browns twice.

Hey Nicomo, i thought Mayfield was the best QB in that Draft with his pocket awareness and ability to throw Receivers open. Honestly he has been falling below my expectations so far. I am happy with it and adding another diva in OBJ could be a bad combination. So much hype, my God.

(05-26-2019, 08:49 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Man some of you are in complete denial about Mayfield. He’s the real deal. And yes I hate it as much as you do.

Not real, he’s a fluke. No love from me. TBH, it’s kinda cool tho, cause I’m really going to love it when the city and their cocky fans spiral down back into the abysmal pit of the nfl.

(05-26-2019, 11:30 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Not real, he’s a fluke. No love from me. TBH, it’s kinda cool tho, cause I’m really going to love it when the city and their cocky fans spiral down back into the abysmal pit of the nfl.

Wish I agreed. They were due to find a legit QB at some point, and I’m afraid they finally did.

(05-26-2019, 09:24 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I don't disagree, but our young QB took us to a bunch of straight playoffs and won a lot of regular season games, yet many discounted him and still do saying it is his great surrounding cast. 

In 2011 when Dalton was a rookie we went 9-7 and made the playoffs, which was good.  However, the win totals of the teams we beat that year were:

4,6,5,2,7,9,4,2 and 8

and the teams we didn't beat:

8,13,12,12,12,10 and 12

The fact is, Dalton beat a single winning team in 2011.  In 2010 we beat a single team with a winning record and went 4-12, so meh.  Some discounted it, some called it a promising rookie campaign.  It was a successful campaign, but some people around here act like we gave the NFL a huge middle finger and curb stomped the league by winning 9 games and then flopping hard against TJ Yates.


The Browns have lots of hype...I guess.  I live in Steeler country and the talk radio guys around here never shut up about how the Browns and Ravens are going to implode and stink, the Bengals will continue to be the Bengals, and the Steelers will win the division again.

Again, the Browns secured proven success at GM, build through the draft, and used money and pick to secure some talented vets.  They pretty much did over the span of a few seasons what we've been begging Mike Brown to do for decades.  Thankfully we have new HC, because if the Browns did all that stuff and we were rolling into 2019 with Marvin/Hue I think we'd be a lot less convinced our way was the way to do things.

(05-26-2019, 11:44 PM)Nately120 Wrote: In 2011 when Dalton was a rookie we went 9-7 and made the playoffs, which was good.  However, the win totals of the teams we beat that year were:

4,6,5,2,7,9,4,2 and 8

and the teams we didn't beat:

8,13,12,12,12,10 and 12

The fact is, Dalton beat a single winning team in 2011.  In 2010 we beat a single team with a winning record and went 4-12, so meh.  Some discounted it, some called it a promising rookie campaign.  It was a successful campaign, but some people around here act like we gave the NFL a huge middle finger and curb stomped the league by winning 9 games and then flopping hard against TJ Yates.

All true and yet people are crowning Mayfield and the Browns when they didn't beat one single winning team....

(05-26-2019, 11:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: All true and yet people are crowning Mayfield and the Browns when they didn't beat one single winning team....

Partly because Cleveland hasn’t had a good QB since their return (Dalton replaced a pretty good QB in Palmer). But it’s also the fact that he was the #1OA and has a big personality. Ofc he’s going to get hype.

(05-26-2019, 11:50 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Partly because Cleveland hasn’t had a good QB since their return (Dalton replaced a pretty good QB in Palmer). But it’s also the fact that he was the #1OA and has a big personality. Ofc he’s going to get hype.

Sure been awhile for the Stains, wish i could say that i give a damn other than that we just crush the guy. We have a more then decent D-line to do so this season with a different D-line Coach in Eason who the players are praising. Actually liking that these fools are getting so much hype while we get none at all while our biggest weakness in coaching has been changed up.

I am excited for this year, more than any year in the past honestly.

Positivity runs in my blood but Marv couldn't win a Playoff game to save his or our lives.

We have a chance....

(05-26-2019, 11:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: All true and yet people are crowning Mayfield and the Browns when they didn't beat one single winning team....

That is why it's called a prediction.  You are taking what you saw in the past and using it to project what will happen in the future.

Remember, the 2018 MVP thew 0 TDS and 1 INT for a rating of 76.4 in 2017.  I recall our pre-season QB rankings where some guy on here had Mahommes ranked 32nd behind guys like Nathan Peterman and Josh McCown because he's a complete unknown.  Some people just don't get the idea of predicting something, or making an educated guess.

But again, I'll point out that my main reason I'm not so sure the Browns will be bad in 2019 comes from me just getting a bit tired of realizing a lot of our team's optimism comes from the notion that the other 3 teams in the division are going to either take big steps backwards, or just never ever ever get any better.

We all knew Manziel and Weeden would stink, but Mayfield...he just doesn't have that insta-stink those guys had.  Then again, I recall us sitting around waiting for Pig Ben to morph into Bubbie Brister, too.  Maybe we are right this time?

I’m not a fan of Mayfield either but I still gotta admit he’s going to be a good one. And now they added a top wide receiver n a running back . Bunch of hating going on around here but the Browns are going to be solid. They can’t sick complete ass forever ♾ think how’s their time.

(05-27-2019, 01:17 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: I’m not a fan of Mayfield either but I still gotta admit he’s going to be a good one.  And now they added a top wide receiver n a running back .   Bunch of hating going on around here but the Browns are going to be solid.  They can’t sick complete ass forever ♾ think how’s their time.

The Browns acquired a lot of talent, but they also have a ton of egos and character problems and an inexperienced HC that may not be able to get all those guys pulling in the same direction.  They may finally put it together, but they could easily implode.  

(05-26-2019, 10:54 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Just the homers.

(05-26-2019, 11:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: All true and yet people are crowning Mayfield and the Browns when they didn't beat one single winning team....

As importantly, it's a completely different animal when you have to start from the first game of the season.When defenses are fresh and have the advantage.

Offenses catch up with their timing and defenses slow down from the grind. That takes about 3-4 games.

Let's see if he can play with all the weight of the world on him and Beckham, Landry and Hunt asking for the ball.

I'm sorry, but I just don't like that unprofessional punk.

(05-26-2019, 11:44 PM)Nately120 Wrote: In 2011 when Dalton was a rookie we went 9-7 and made the playoffs, which was good.  However, the win totals of the teams we beat that year were:

4,6,5,2,7,9,4,2 and 8

and the teams we didn't beat:

8,13,12,12,12,10 and 12

The fact is, Dalton beat a single winning team in 2011.  In 2010 we beat a single team with a winning record and went 4-12, so meh.  Some discounted it, some called it a promising rookie campaign.  It was a successful campaign, but some people around here act like we gave the NFL a huge middle finger and curb stomped the league by winning 9 games and then flopping hard against TJ Yates.


The Browns have lots of hype...I guess.  I live in Steeler country and the talk radio guys around here never shut up about how the Browns and Ravens are going to implode and stink, the Bengals will continue to be the Bengals, and the Steelers will win the division again.

Again, the Browns secured proven success at GM, build through the draft, and used money and pick to secure some talented vets.  They pretty much did over the span of a few seasons what we've been begging Mike Brown to do for decades.  Thankfully we have new HC, because if the Browns did all that stuff and we were rolling into 2019 with Marvin/Hue I think we'd be a lot less convinced our way was the way to do things.

Good points

Did Mayfield have a rookie camp?
Did Mayfield have OTA's?

Dalton did not due the new CBA not yet signed. So you and others can dish on Dalton all you want, but he took over a 4 win team with a rookie #1 WR in Green and made the playoffs. No need to try and trash AD to make Mayfield look better. They were  2 different rookie QB's on 2 different teams with different strengths and weaknesses.

(05-25-2019, 06:10 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: What type of numbers would you envision for a player of McCoy's caliber and experience level?  I don't really have any insight into the Browns' cap situation, but obviously they didn't throw him the pen and checkbook, otherwise he would be a Brown today.  Seeing how the Buc's decided not to cover his $13M this season, my gut would say to start the negotiations at half that amount and work in a signing bonus bonus and some performance escalators to top out South of $9M. 

 

I agree with that sentiment, completely.  Also, seeing how they didn't take any WRs in the draft, they must plan on retaining them.



His abilities would certainly open up some interesting possibilities for the defense.

https://www.bucsnation.com/2019/1/15/18180036/bang-for-tampa-bay-buccaneers-gerald-mccoy-2019

This article gives a lot of good perspective and insight into McCoy, and how he became expendable to Tampa.


This quote is from toward the end of the article, I suggest reading it in it's entirety.  (about a 2-3 minute read)

Good stuff as always, Sunset.  Reading it made me remember how much I wanted Vita Vea coming out of the draft. 

I can't help but think the rotation of Billings, Wren, and a revolving door of DEs rotating inside (Willis, Hubbard, the new guy from the Giants) will do the job and allow them to sign Boyd and, hopefully, AJ Green.  

(05-27-2019, 10:15 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Good points

Did Mayfield have a rookie camp?
Did Mayfield have OTA's?

Dalton did not due the new CBA not yet signed. So you and others can dish on Dalton all you want, but he took over a 4 win team with a rookie #1 WR in Green and made the playoffs. No need to try and trash AD to make Mayfield look better. They were  2 different rookie QB's on 2 different teams with different strengths and weaknesses.

Im not trashing Dalton, I'm just pointing out that he only beat 1 team with a winning record his rookie year and that is a fact. 

Also, Mayfield is on a team that went 1-31 the prior 2 years so what's the point in bringing up the 4-12 2010 Bengals?

Anyways, I'm not trashing Dalton just saying neither he nor Mayfield proved they could beat winning teams their rookie year.  Im just trying to put things in perspective since the "only beat 1 winning team" mantra is getting repeated so often.

(05-27-2019, 10:59 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Im not trashing Dalton, I'm just pointing out that he only beat 1 team with a winning record his rookie year and that is a fact. 

Also, Mayfield is on a team that went 1-31 the prior 2 years so what's the point in bringing up the 4-12 2010 Bengals?

Anyways, I'm not trashing Dalton just saying neither he nor Mayfield proved they could beat winning teams their rookie year.  Im just trying to put things in perspective since the "only beat 1 winning team" mantra is getting repeated so often.

It is relevant that both teams took over crappy teams, they were similar in that way and why I pointed it out. It is also relevant (people ignore or forget) AD as a rookie had no time to prepare with coaches or players which is critical for a rookie QB, but he overcame it to his credit.

So what about McCoy? Somebody should start a thread about that.

(05-27-2019, 10:59 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Im not trashing Dalton, I'm just pointing out that he only beat 1 team with a winning record his rookie year and that is a fact. 

Also, Mayfield is on a team that went 1-31 the prior 2 years so what's the point in bringing up the 4-12 2010 Bengals?

Anyways, I'm not trashing Dalton just saying neither he nor Mayfield proved they could beat winning teams their rookie year.  Im just trying to put things in perspective since the "only beat 1 winning team" mantra is getting repeated so often.

Your comment is fair, because it is factual.

There are a few differences between their first year, and the most important is that Dalton started from the first game.

He was thrown into the fire starting the first week. Although he was pulled halfway through, that game showed the guy is tough. He then played the entire season and won 9 games.

Those on this board who have played or coached, know how important that is.

Lastly, it's important that we consider that the fact that the opposing Team's record in hindsight, is partially due to the fact that you beat them.

Their record at the time that you play them is important. Confidence plays a big part in how a Team plays you.

And all 32 Teams are confident early in the season, when they are still in the hunt.

Let's see Mayfield start and finish a season. Lets see how he does when facing fresh, aggressive and confident defenses. Let's see how he reacts when his gas tank is empty but he still has to go out there.