(06-03-2019, 10:08 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Our defense really missed Dennard and Vigil that game.  Plus I believe Brown was still slowed by injury.  He had just returned 2 weeks earlier.

Offense was missing Eifert, Price, and Bernard.

Would we have beaten the Cjiefs with all those players?  I doubt it.  But It is silly to look at the number of injuries we had over the cuyrse of the season and try to claim they had no effect.

True, but it is interesting watching the narratives roll.  Injuries ravaged us, so why did Marvin lose his job?  Well, Marvin is so bad at coaching that no one can thrive under him.  Ok, well then why did we draft a backup QB?  Well, because Driskell sucks at football even though he had Marvin and Lazor and a bunch of injures, and so on.

I do recall when the injuries starting piling up and people started calling it a lost season there was a bit of an "Oh crap, Marvin isn't going to get fired now!" feeling goin' round these parts.

(05-30-2019, 05:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I need to say that no matter how bad he does this year I think every new coach should get at least 2 full seasons.

It would have to be a 0-16 nightmare with a lot serious locker room turmoil and other problems for me to be calling for a new coach after just one year.

I agree, but to take over a vet team who won 6 games with massive injuries would put his head on the block if has less than 5 wins IMHO. But again, were the games close, did the HC or his staff get outcoached? This is NOT A REBUILD, so we need to see better coaching and results than past 3 years.

(06-02-2019, 11:20 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: This question is tough. IF we were a really young team, that won 3 games last year...6 wins this year...then 8 the next...then 10 the year after would be the path.

We do have several Pro Bowl caliber guys in Green, Dunlap, and Atkins that are around 31 years old. For those guys, there is some urgency to win soon as their play at an elite level won't last many more years.

(06-03-2019, 11:11 AM)Nately120 Wrote: True, but it is interesting watching the narratives roll.  Injuries ravaged us, so why did Marvin lose his job?  Well, Marvin is so bad at coaching that no one can thrive under him. 

(06-03-2019, 12:44 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree, but to take over a vet team who won 6 games with massive injuries would put his head on the block if has less than 5 wins IMHO. But again, were the games close, did the HC or his staff get outcoached? This is NOT A REBUILD, so we need to see better coaching and results than past 3 years.

I have a feeling that 2019 will be the year BEFORE Zac starts to make more of his own personal Stamp on the team.

There is a closing Window of time left for some Key Stars coupled with Zac possibly needing a season to get to know all of the players he inherited.

Add to that a New Staff that may not all succeed as one Unit in 2019. Zac may have to purge a few of these Coaches after 2019 to dial in his Staff longer term.

I have personally given the Bengals some what of a pass on not being big players in Free Agency in 2019 because I believe Zac will need a season to get a handle on his team and the inherited players.

I would hope that after 2019, the Bengals allow Zac to make a bigger splash in Free Agency and to decide a longer term direction going forward that could include a trade or two of some of the aging Stars or even a commitment to a rookie QB.

Zac has to try to win with "Marvin's players" and fans are invested in seeing those same players win but Zac & a whole New Staff teaching "Marvin's players" a new way of playing may not result in winning right away in 2019.

After 2019; Zac & the Bengals may have to close the Window on some of the aging reminders of "Marvin's team" and have a youth movement that transitions to more of "Zac's players" before the winning comes. Possibly purge a few players that don't buy in to the change whether these players are young or older.

The competitiveness of the NFL may force Zac & the Bengals to use 2019 to evaluate players,  learn on the job and then Chart the longer term direction.

The choice may come down to holding onto the hope of winning with "Marvin's team" -or- transitioning to a point where Zac puts his Stamp on what will have to be "his team & players".

(06-04-2019, 01:54 PM)depthchart Wrote: I have a feeling that 2019 will be the year BEFORE Zac starts to make more of his own personal Stamp on the team.

There is a closing Window of time left for some Key Stars coupled with Zac possibly needing a season to get to know all of the players he inherited.

Add to that a New Staff that may not all succeed as one Unit in 2019. Zac may have to purge a few of these Coaches after 2019 to dial in his Staff longer term.

I have personally given the Bengals some what of a pass on not being big players in Free Agency in 2019 because I believe Zac will need a season to get a handle on his team and the inherited players.

I would hope that after 2019, the Bengals allow Zac to make a bigger splash in Free Agency and to decide a longer term direction going forward that could include a trade or two of some of the aging Stars or even a commitment to a rookie QB.

Zac has to try to win with "Marvin's players" and fans are invested in seeing those same players win but Zac & a whole New Staff teaching "Marvin's players" a new way of playing may not result in winning right away in 2019.

After 2019; Zac & the Bengals may have to close the Window on some of the aging reminders of "Marvin's team" and have a youth movement that transitions to more of "Zac's players" before the winning comes. Possibly purge a few players that don't buy in to the change whether these players are young or older.

The competitiveness of the NFL may force Zac & the Bengals to use 2019 to evaluate players,  learn on the job and then Chart the longer term direction.

The choice may come down to holding onto the hope of winning with "Marvin's team" -or- transitioning to a point where Zac puts his Stamp on what will have to be "his team & players".

If Zac needs a year to learn how to coach and teach then he sure as hell does not need to be getting rid of any players.

You can't have it both ways.  You can't say he is smart enough to know which players he needs but at the same time he is clueless about how to evaluate and coach the players he has right now.

The guy has been around the NFL.  He either knows how to teach and evaluate players or he doesn't.

(06-04-2019, 02:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If Zac needs a year to learn how to coach and teach then he sure as hell does not need to be getting rid of any players.

You can't have it both ways.  You can't say he is smart enough to know which players he needs but at the same time he is clueless about how to evaluate and coach the players he has right now.

The guy has been around the NFL.  He either knows how to teach and evaluate players or he doesn't.

You are missing my point, Fred.

Zac would not start possibly getting rid of certain players until AFTER the 2019 season.

He has not had any of these players in game situations and he has himself not been an NFL Head Coach in game situations.

It is reasonable to expect that it will take some time to dial all of these many new changes in and 2019 may be the season that this dialing in has to occur in.

Once he and his inexperienced Staff have gotten their feet wet, know MUCH MORE about each player they have plus themselves as Coaches; then they will have a clearer picture of what direction they want to Chart for the future.

(06-04-2019, 02:33 PM)depthchart Wrote: You are missing my point, Fred.

Zac would not start possibly getting rid of certain players until AFTER the 2019 season.

But only because they do not buy into his plan THIS YEAR.  


Why should any player "buy into" the plan from a coach who does not know how to coach yet and is trying to learn on the job?

If Taylor does not know how to coach now then it is not going to help him to get players that fit into the system of a coach who does not know how to coach.

(06-04-2019, 03:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But only because they do not buy into his plan THIS YEAR.  


Why should any player "buy into" the plan from a coach who does not know how to coach yet and is trying to learn on the job?

If Taylor does not know how to coach now then it is not going to help him to get players that fit into the system of a coach who does not know how to coach.

This has nothing to do with his ability to Coach.

Instead; planning how & when to go about instituting Change for the longer term.

Walking in day one and trading certain players away or signing big name Free Agents or drafting a rookie QB like say Haskins may be like putting the cart before the horse.

Taking a year to evaluate Dalton and the rest of the inherited players plus to install the systems before making any drastic changes may be the wiser approach.

Get familiar with what you have before making the bolder moves.

This is the approach I think they took.

Their is enough talent on this team where we could have a top 15 Defense with a top 8 offense. Most teams in the NFL have serious question marks going into the season even the contenders from last year. Marin held us back no reason to not have 10 wins minimum

(06-04-2019, 04:14 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Their is enough talent on this team where we could have a top 15 Defense with a top 8 offense.  Most teams in the NFL have serious question marks going into the season even the contenders from last year. Marin held us back no reason to not have 10 wins minimum

I dunno.  That LBer group is still not real talented.  The lack of depth there is downright scary.

I can only hope that the rest of the D makes enough impact to turn a blind eye to the fact.

Otherwise it's back to the bottom with this D.

Billings and the other DTs not named Geno are the group to watch in my opinion.

Hopefully MJ leaving and Lawson/Hubbard taking more snaps will turn up the heat from our DEs.

(06-04-2019, 03:26 PM)depthchart Wrote: This has nothing to do with his ability to Coach.

Instead;   planning how & when to go about instituting Change for the longer term.

Walking in day one and trading certain players away or signing big name Free Agents or drafting a rookie QB like say Haskins may be like putting the cart before the horse.

Taking a year to evaluate Dalton and the rest of the inherited players plus to install the systems before making any drastic changes may be the wiser approach.

Get familiar with what you have before making the bolder moves.

This is the approach I think they took.

It just does not work this way in the NFL.  When a guy interviews for a head coach position he walks in and lays out his plan for success.  No one ever got hired by saying "Eh, I don't know, let me look things over for a year and then maybe I will come up with something."

And how would the players like to hear, "I don't know what I can do to help us win this year, but you guys go out and work as hard as you can anyway.  I am sure I will think of something by next year."

There’s not a magic number for me. He’s a rookie HC with a new team and staff. It’s more about how the players play for him, how well prepared he has them, hopefully he doesn’t actively try to kill passion and excitement from his team like Marvin did before playoff games. I’d think this team should improve as the season goes on and everyone gets a feel for each other. I’d like to see our players be put in positions to succeed (play our guys to their strengths and don’t try to fit a square peg in a round hole). So for me it’ll be a combination of all of that and a bit of a gut feel.

I guess if I had to put a number on it it’d be around 6 like last year. But it’ll be more how they look and how he coaches and manages player decisions than on wins and losses. We have talent but we also have some big question marks.

(05-30-2019, 04:46 PM)depthchart Wrote:    What is the worst 2019 record you would accept from Zac and still feel ok about the future ?
 

     (Assumes that the team is reasonably healthy)


      How low will you go ?    


      Take the POLL

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Something stupid could happen and Driskel ends up starting games for us. You never know. I wont give up on him after a year

Tbf, he said what is the "worst", which is always a higher probability of the "best". 5-11 is the worst I'm willing to accept from this team. If he'd of framed it without the worst part, then my answer to changes to around .500 like many other have stated. The "best" I except would also change.

(06-04-2019, 08:44 PM)Phil in BG Wrote: Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can't argue with that.

I can't wait for the game day threads. Over 65% of our fans will go into games with no expectations to win each week. So, no one should be upset when we lose?????


My guess is losing will not be accepted, whether you lose a close game or a blow out, who cares, it is a loss.

(06-04-2019, 08:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It just does not work this way in the NFL.  When a guy interviews for a head coach position he walks in and lays out his plan for success.  No one ever got hired by saying "Eh, I don't know, let me look things over for a year and then maybe I will come up with something."

And how would the players like to hear, "I don't know what I can do to help us win this year, but you guys go out and work as hard as you can anyway.  I am sure I will think of something by next year."

Clap, clap, clap, clap, yawn...

It is obvious that Zac's "Plan for success" starts with him taking over the Bengals team from 2018 with very few major Roster changes going into 2019. Biggest changes coming through the Draft and even the Draft related changes were not earth shattering; though I like the Jonah pick etc.

He is initially going to try to win with the Veteran Stars he has now and with Dalton.

Mike Brown himself said that Dalton needs to "re-establish himself" which is a strong sign that Zac & the Organization have not yet committed longer term to Dalton. Dalton himself is not cemented into the longer term "Plan" yet.

Zac appears to have an initial "Plan" of trying to establish a winning environment with Dalton and this current group of aging Stars. Zac & his Staff are likely feeling quite confident right now that 2019 will go well & they will be successful. Not losing any games right now and every meeting & practice can be deemed a success until games start actually being played.

If 2019 goes well, Dalton performs at an MVP level & wins comes, then keeping the Window Open on this group of aging Stars solidifies itself as Zac's "plan". Dalton may get an extension etc.

If 2019 goes poorly and the optimism that existed before games were played disappears, then Zac & the Organization may morph things into a different direction. Maybe move on from Dalton and sign a rookie quarterback, trade an aging Star etc.

Optimism likely abounded in Zac's interviews and it abounds now but how well or poorly this team with aging Stars performs in 2019 will likely determine the pace of change going forward in the planning area.

The longer term "Plan" is still fluid.

(06-05-2019, 10:51 AM)depthchart Wrote: Clap, clap, clap, clap, yawn...

It is obvious that Zac's "Plan for success" starts with him taking over the Bengals team from 2018 with very few major Roster changes going into 2019. Biggest changes coming through the Draft and even the Draft related changes were not earth shattering; though I like the Jonah pick etc.

He is initially going to try to win with the Veteran Stars he has now and with Dalton.

Mike Brown himself said that Dalton needs to "re-establish himself" which is a strong sign that Zac & the Organization have not yet committed longer term to Dalton. Dalton himself is not cemented into the longer term "Plan" yet.

Zac appears to have an initial "Plan" of trying to establish a winning environment with Dalton and this current group of aging Stars. Zac & his Staff are likely feeling quite confident right now that 2019 will go well & they will be successful. Not losing any games right now and every meeting & practice can be deemed a success until games start actually being played.

If 2019 goes well, Dalton performs at an MVP level & wins comes, then keeping the Window Open on this group of aging Stars solidifies itself as Zac's "plan". Dalton may get an extension etc.

If 2019 goes poorly and the optimism that existed before games were played disappears, then Zac & the Organization may morph things into a different direction. Maybe move on from Dalton and sign a rookie quarterback, trade an aging Star etc.

Optimism likely abounded in Zac's interviews and it abounds now but how well or poorly this team with aging Stars performs in 2019 will likely determine the pace of change going forward in the planning area.

The "Plan" is still fluid.

I think many fans disrespect AD. I am not saying he is a HOF QB, but looking at our roster, if AD goes down early or in midseason any hope we have of making the playoffs goes with it. Some will say that is true of any team and maybe correct. However, the point being if AD's is determined to not be the long term answer, then Bengals are likely going into rebuild mode which means possibility of years of losing again. Who will take over for AD and be better than AD if he leaves is a question yet to be answered if it happens.

(06-05-2019, 03:10 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Something stupid could happen and Driskel ends up starting games for us. You never know. I wont give up on him after a year

The major problem was the injuries weren't just Dalton. Top three TE's , AJ, Boyd coupled with a terrible o-line all contributed to the failure of 2018 offense. The defense also didn't do them any favors. To put the failure on a back up QB is a joke. Tom Brady couldn't win given those obstacles. I am not saying Driscoll is a NFL starting QB but lets be fair and give him a little respect for last season and what he and the team went through.

(06-05-2019, 11:18 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: The major problem was the injuries weren't just Dalton. Top three TE's , AJ, Boyd coupled with a terrible o-line all contributed to the failure of 2018 offense. The defense also didn't do them any favors. To put the failure on a back up QB is a joke. Tom Brady couldn't win given those obstacles. I am not saying Driscoll is a NFL starting QB but lets be fair and give him a little respect for last season and what he and the team went through.

Good and fair points expecting a backup QB or starting QB to win without all of those weapons and a suspect OL is not fair. But my issue with Driskell was his accuracy. He missed (high a lot) wide open targets or did not see wide open targets. I am not saying he can't get better, but he worried me watching him against starting NFL defenses versus how he showed against backups in preseason.